Closed transfer to smaller keg

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Draft Master Flash

Draft Master Flash

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In about a week my 5 gallon batch of amber will be ready to keg. I plan on doing a closed transfer to two 2.6 gallon corny kegs so that they will fit into my mini kegerator conversion. I'm using an Anvil 7.5 bucket fermenter so I will connect gas line from keg into stopper on fermenter and run spigot on fermenter to liquid connection on keg. Kind of a gravity fill. When the first keg fills up will it automatically just stop? Besides weighing the kegs how will I know the first keg is filled and I can go to filling the 2nd keg? I could just fill both kegs through the lid but would like to try a closed transfer. I apologize if this has already been answered on another thread but I'm unable to find it.


DMF
 
I don't loop back into fermenter from the gas port. I place the tubing end from a gas QD into a container of Starsan (oversized airlock) when filling a keg off conical (beer is already carbonated). I watch the fill both from the condensation on the keg (since the beer is chilled) and for what's coming out of the gas QD. Basically, when foam is coming out of the gas QD, I stop the fill. During warmer months, the condensation is more evident, so I have a better idea of the level.

I also have a CO2 tank connected to the fermenter gas manifold to provide consistent pressure for the fill.
 
You'll know it's full only when beer starts coming out the gas relief instead of just gas.

Weighing is actually a great idea. Tare for the empty keg and then figure out 2.5 gallons (it'll be something like 21 lbs).
 
I was thinking I could weigh it when filled with starsan. Would the weight of the beer be any big difference in weight compared to the starsan? 21 lbs seem pretty reasonable.

DMF
 
Golddiggie said:
I don't loop back into fermenter from the gas port. I place the tubing end from a gas QD into a container of Starsan (oversized airlock) when filling a keg off conical (beer is already carbonated). I watch the fill both from the condensation on the keg (since the beer is chilled) and for what's coming out of the gas QD. Basically, when foam is coming out of the gas QD, I stop the fill. During warmer months, the condensation is more evident, so I have a better idea of the level.

I also have a CO2 tank connected to the fermenter gas manifold to provide consistent pressure for the fill.
Click to expand...
This also sounds like a good option as well. Could I just overflow into the 2nd keg by running the gas into the liquid out on the 2nd keg? And then run the line going into the stopper on the fermenter from a co2 tank running at about 1 to 2 psi? Would this work?


DMF
 
I weigh my two 2.5 gal kegs filled with Star San and then have them on my postal scale as I fill them with a closed transfer. I stop when they reach the desired weight and then switch over to the other keg. It works perfect. It doesn't even need to be that accurate.
 
Draft Master Flash said:
This also sounds like a good option as well. Could I just overflow into the 2nd keg by running the gas into the liquid out on the 2nd keg? And then run the line going into the stopper on the fermenter from a co2 tank running at about 1 to 2 psi? Would this work?

DMF
Click to expand...
Never tried jumping kegs for filling. If you use QD's on both posts, it should be easy enough to simply connect each up in turn. That way you also don't have liquid coming out the gas post, keeping the fill level correct.
 
+1 on the scale.

You could connect hose from keg1 to keg2, and/or watch for bubbles in the gas out line going into StarSan. The risk is headspace on the first keg. If it is filled all the way up to the gas dip tube, you're going to have trouble carbonating that keg.

Use the 8.34*FG*gallons as mentioned above and shut it off at 2.5 gallons. 2.5 gallon keg will have headspace above 2.5 gallon level.
 
Another alteration on above suggestions would be to jumper the 2 kegs together, and put your first keg on a slant. That way, you'd start filling the second keg earlier, but when you go back and set the first keg upright, you still have headspace for CO2 to work its carbonation magic.
 
Lots of good advice here! :) I think this time around I will try weighing and just trying to get both right around the same weight. Should be easy enough to do that closed. I'm in the process of building a keezer and do have a few 5 gallon corny kegs to be using in the future. My very first batch I made was a 1 gallon kit and I had transfered it to a 1.7 gallon corny keg through the lid and that seemed to work fine but then again it was consumed rather quickly so not sure if it even had much time to oxidize.

DMF
 
I was going to say try the weight thing with star-san, maybe to the level you want the beer. Record that. Then top it off and do the purge so you have only CO2 in there. But looking back you asked about the weight of star-san, so I'm guessing that's already the plan? It would definitely be a good time to get your #'s.
 
tracer bullet said:
I was going to say try the weight thing with star-san, maybe to the level you want the beer. Record that. Then top it off and do the purge so you have only CO2 in there. But looking back you asked about the weight of star-san, so I'm guessing that's already the plan? It would definitely be a good time to get your #'s.
Click to expand...
Agreed!
 
Just a thought, but if you chill your kegs with Starsan in them, dump that out (or remove it however you want) the keg bodies should still be cold enough to show the level of the beer going in. Assuming you'll be carbonating in keg and the finished beer is at room temp. I do the reverse since the beer goin in is cold (below 40F).
 
Draft Master Flash said:
Kind of what I had in mind. I'm a little puzzled on how the spunding valve works.

DMF
Click to expand...


I transfer fully carbonated or mostly carbonated beer under pressure. The spunding valve keeps the pressure at a constant know level.

If you are not transferring carbonated beer, you could simply have the PRV open on the last keg, or run a line from the gas connection on the last keg into a pitcher of water/starsan.
 
Dr_Jeff said:
I transfer fully carbonated or mostly carbonated beer under pressure. The spunding valve keeps the pressure at a constant know level.

If you are not transferring carbonated beer, you could simply have the PRV open on the last keg, or run a line from the gas connection on the last keg into a pitcher of water/starsan.
Click to expand...
With this method, does the first keg in line get overfilled? How do the kegs even out? This seems pretty simple.

DMF
 
The risk is headspace on the first keg. If it is filled all the way up to the gas dip tube, you're going to have trouble carbonating that keg.



This is another good point. I have heard that instead of force carbing through the liquid line some have force carbed through the gas line short tube by just turning the keg sideways causing the short co2 stem to be completely immersed while bringing the co2 to pressure. I did this on my 1.7 gallon keg on my first batch and it carbed just fine. I know there are risks of beer backing up into your regulator but as long as you keep the hose on your regulator pressurized I would think it would keep that from happening.
 
I agree some head space is a good thing. Don't know how much is needed, but it seems the speed of carbing should correspond to the surface area of the gas-liquid boundary.
 
Draft Master Flash said:
I was thinking I could weigh it when filled with starsan. Would the weight of the beer be any big difference in weight compared to the starsan? 21 lbs seem pretty reasonable.

DMF
Click to expand...
Calculating the weight of 5 gallons of beer is easy as long as you know the beer's final gravity.

The formula is (gallons of beer * FG) * water density pound/gallon.

Example: (5 gallons * 1.050) * 8.3304 = 43.75 pounds
 
The density of water depends upon temperature. If you have cold crashed your fermenter to 39F the correct water density is 8.344 pounds/gallon.
 
I tried making a line that included a carbonation bottle cap with a ball lock fitting clamped to a 3/8" barb that I plugged into the airlock hole into the fermenter stopper with the co2 tank QD attached with the tank set to about 2 psi. The ball valve on Anvil fermenter was used with a 1/2" hose attached to a liquid QD to the "OUT" valve on keg. On the gas "IN" on keg I attached a hose going to a bucket of Starsan. As shown here,



It didn't work. It flowed a little bit then just stopped flowing. I even tried opening PRV on keg lid. I tried turning up co2 a little and all I got was the sound of a little gas escaping from lid of Anvil fermenter. I gave up and just transferred the beer through the lid of the keg. Don't know why this didn't work but turned out to be a heck of a lot of trouble for nothing!

DMF
 
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Was the fermenter sitting well above the keg?

Was the beer going from fermenter to the "In" connect on the keg? I don't have the experience of other posters here but I fill the keg on the "Out" post so it fills from the bottom of the keg through the long dip tube. I don't have anything on the keg's "IN" post while filling. As it starts filling I open the PRV.

I may just have misunderstood your post. If so, I'm sorry for the delay in getting a better answer.
 
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LostHopper said:
Was the fermenter sitting well above the keg?

Was the beer going from fermenter to the "In" connect on the keg? I don't have the experience of other posters here but I fill the keg on the "Out" post so it fills from the bottom of the keg through the long dip tube. I don't have anything on the keg's "IN" post while filling. As it starts filling I open the PRV.

I may just have misunderstood your post. If so, I'm sorry for the delay in getting a better answer.
Click to expand...
The fermenter was about 4 feet abouve the keg and the fermenter spigot line ran about 4 feet and was plugged into the liquid "OUT" post on keg. All in all it should of worked but didn't.

DMF
 
Did you have loose hops in the fermenter? They can clog up the posts. I had alot of problems with a recent Denny's Rye IPA I dry hopped and attempted to do a closed transfer. Helps if you have a racking arm in your fermenter you can rotate to stay above the hops and yeast also. I should have cold crashed to compact the yeast and hops. I didn't! :(
 
Oldskewl said:
Did you have loose hops in the fermenter? They can clog up the posts. I had alot of problems with a recent Denny's Rye IPA I dry hopped and attempted to do a closed transfer. Helps if you have a racking arm in your fermenter you can rotate to stay above the hops and yeast also. I should have cold crashed to compact the yeast and hops. I didn't! :(
Click to expand...
No loose hops. Beer was pretty clear actually. What should of worked just didn't.:confused: Guess I'll just stick to the old fashion way for now. At least until I feel like trying again.

DMF
 
DMF: you mention a hose into a bucket of starsan.
>>>On the gas "OUT" on keg I attached a hose going to a bucket of Starsan. As shown here,<<
How far was the hose submerged into the starstan? Was it a 5 gal bucket?

I wonder if the 2 psi was not sufficient to push the displaced keg gas into and out of the vent hose into the starsan especially if it was submerged over an inch or so.
I probably would have removed the disconnect to the hose/starsan bucket and just opened the PRV to see if it would start running again.
 

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