Closed transfer from Corny keg to corny keg

[Ragman]

Hello,

Looking to start fermenting in my corny kegs as I have had a few issues with oxygen and Im tired of lifting/cleaning the carboys.

I plan to brew a 9 gallon batch soon and would like to ferment in 2 5gal ball lock corny kegs.
I will use a gas disconnect connected to a tube running down in a bottle of sanitizer on each keg as they ferment.
I plan on using a hop bag with dental floss (non coated) to dry hop after high krausen.

I currently use floating dip tubes in my kegs as they have worked so well at keeping the trub out of my lines and taps.
The floating dip tube hose just slides over the short stainless dup tube that connects under the liquid out post.

My question is, if I use floating dip tubes in all my kegs and try a closed pressure transfer from keg to keg, do I risk blowing that hose off inside?

Normally the liquid goes out so no real pressure in the direction the hose slides over the dip tube, BUT going the other way by forcing the liquid in, Im afraid could possibly push the hose off the dip tube.

I could always just cut the original dip tube so it rests above the trub but I feel the floating dip tube will get the most beer out of the keg.

What do you think?

 

[renstyle]

I ferment in kegs as well using the floating dip tube with a mesh screen on the business end.

I do closed transfers from this keg to a "normal" corny keg with a non-cut dip tube for serving all the time. Works a treat. The key is to go slow.

Normally I pressurize both the serving and fermenters to 10PSI separately, then jumper the beer-to-beer posts, and add a spunding valve on the serving keg gas post. Set it to just slightly below 10PSI, or whatever you pressurized the kegs to initially. It will take 15-20mins to transfer 4.5ish gallons, but will pick up very little trub.

I have found a good cold crash for a day or two just before transferring can really compact the trub. Every little bit helps.

Answering the question asked: As long as you use a low pressure differential between your fermenter and serving vessel, there is little to no risk of blowing off either hose.

For me, this is where having the mesh screen on the pickup of the fermenter's floating dip tube is especially important. Less chance of anything big entering the poppets, especially if you are dry hopping (even if contained in a bag).

 

[LitBrewing]

Question about this, my floating dip tube was leaving a LOT of liquid in the bottom when I tested, so I put a washer on to weigh it down, now it gets pretty far down and i'm concerned about picking up some of the trub.

Is this a problem, and if so what should I do to make sure it doesn't happen?

 

[Ragman]

I purchased filters for the end of my floating dip tubes. Brewed last week - should be transferring in about 10 days - I will let you know how it works out.

 

[EDF713]

Question about this, my floating dip tube was leaving a LOT of liquid in the bottom when I tested, so I put a washer on to weigh it down, now it gets pretty far down and i'm concerned about picking up some of the trub.

Is this a problem, and if so what should I do to make sure it doesn't happen?

This is one of the drawbacks of this method, and I haven't totally eliminated it, but reduced it some. I recommend a few things:

Cold condition a few days or even longer to compact the trub. This will depend on how much trub you have and how well your yeast flocculates. As an aside you can try getting as little trub into the wort from the kettle as possible - one guy on here used a bucket strainer as a filter and I'm going to try a sanitized spare biab bag next batch.

Use a floating diptube filter - Floating Dip Tube Filter Attachment | MoreBeer

Also use a floating diptube in your serving keg.

 

[LitBrewing]

This is one of the drawbacks of this method, and I haven't totally eliminated it, but reduced it some. I recommend a few things:

Cold condition a few days or even longer to compact the trub. This will depend on how much trub you have and how well your yeast flocculates. As an aside you can try getting as little trub into the wort from the kettle as possible - one guy on here used a bucket strainer as a filter and I'm going to try a sanitized spare biab bag next batch.

Use a floating diptube filter - Floating Dip Tube Filter Attachment | MoreBeer

Also use a floating diptube in your serving keg.

I plan to use the floating dip tube in serving keg, sefinitely will cold crash for a day or two before transfer. and both have that little filter on it, so I at least have those parts covered.

I guess I just need to experiment with it to see what works best. I may see if there are some smaller washers I can use vs the large one I am using, perhaps I can do some testing with water to see if I can find a sweet spot. I guess the unknown with that is how many inches of trub are in the bottom. Also I would guess the floater would be more buoyant in beer, so there may be an adjustment there.

Will post back here with any results I find.

 

[sibelman]

@LitBrewing wrote: "I put a washer on to weigh it down...Is this a problem...?" I'd recommend using stainless (or glass) as weight. Too, as the level in the keg goes down, the submerged "floating" pickup tube will end up in the bottom and potentially start to pick up trub sooner. Otherwise, it could be a workable strategy for fine-tuning the floating pickup.

Cheers.

 

[Ragman]

Sounds like you are doing everything you should. How long is the dip tube itself? I mean when I drop mine into an empty keg, it sits at the bottom. Does yours hang?

 

[LitBrewing]

Sounds like you are doing everything you should. How long is the dip tube itself? I mean when I drop mine into an empty keg, it sits at the bottom. Does yours hang?

Yeah it sits at the bottom. When first tested it with sanitizer to drain the keg there was at least 3-4 inches of liquid in the bottom. Now that I think about it i'm not sure why it left so much. I will plan to re-test a bit more but I am guessing since the dip tube is sitting at the bottom that is kind of 'propping up' or adding buoyancy to the end of the tube where the floater and filter are located.

Makes me wonder what would happen if I cut the tube a bit so that the max it would go down is whatever point I want it to stop?

 

[EDF713]

Yeah it sits at the bottom. When first tested it with sanitizer to drain the keg there was at least 3-4 inches of liquid in the bottom. Now that I think about it i'm not sure why it left so much. I will plan to re-test a bit more but I am guessing since the dip tube is sitting at the bottom that is kind of 'propping up' or adding buoyancy to the end of the tube where the floater and filter are located.

Makes me wonder what would happen if I cut the tube a bit so that the max it would go down is whatever point I want it to stop?

I cut mine long enough so that if it hangs straight down it touches the bottom, it's definitely trial and error. The drawback I've seen with the floating diptubes is that at some point when you get close to the bottom part of the apparatus brushes some of the sediment and pulls some cloudy beer. That and there is always more crud in there than I ever imagined could be!

 

[LitBrewing]

Yeah I guess it's somewhat unaviodable...I have a really hard time not getting some cloudiness/crud when I use a racking cane as well.


Using a floating in the serving keg will help as well, it will be pretty obvious when you are at the bottom of the keg.

 

[SeeMont]

Greetings:
I guess I stumbled on fermenting in a Corny keg a couple years ago, was lucky enough to pick up a 10 gallon Corny keg (holds 12 gallons, plenty of head space) But this will work for any Corny keg.
First I shortened my out tube, then slid a piece plastic tubing over the pipe so I can adjust the bottom level, I can predict that I will have about one inch is sludge on the bottom of the keg.
I cold crash for three to four days
I push into the CO2 purged 5 gallon kegs using about 5 to 10 psi. , using the out and out ports and a jumper hose. But first I push out a cup to clean any sludge and also to check final gravity. I haven't used my spunding valve but I might give it a try.
I watch the clear tube to determine when the fermenting keg is emply. But with the cold liquid, you can see the level on the sides. Be careful about over filling a keg.
One thing to be careful with, Infection When you clean that fermentation keg, The poppet valves are a mess, I end up boiling them to get them clean, I tear down the keg, cleaning or replacing all the O-rings. Soak small parts in bleach and rinse. Flush, then Star San.
Cheers

 

[LitBrewing]

Great find on the 10g corny, those are amazing but expensive usually. Sounds like you got a good price, i'm hoping the price will come down on these at some point.

I push into the CO2 purged 5 gallon kegs using about 5 to 10 psi. , using the out and out ports and a jumper hose. But first I push out a cup to clean any sludge and also to check final gravity. I haven't used my spunding valve but I might give it a try.

So you try to set the (fixed) dip tube level 1" above for predicted sludge, then pull some using a party tap i'm guessing, check fg, etc, wait for it to start pouring clear then switch to a jumper and transfer?

We are mostly discussing a floating dip tube here, but you have some good ideas for a fixed tube!

First i'm going to cut the floating dip tube in my fermenting keg so that it leaves an inch or so at the bottom.

After that, here' what I'm thinking for my next batch:
1. Ferment fully in keg with spunding valve and cut floating dip tube installed
2. Cold crash for 1-3 days once fermentation has stopped
3. Transfer cold beer to serving keg (also with floating dip tube installed ) using jumper (closed transfer). Stop transfer if I see major cloudiness ( and perhaps look to cut the dip tube further for next batch )
4. Add gelatin or clarifying agent if needed to serving keg ( purging any oxygen afterwards )
5. If i'm in a rush i'll Force carbonate (high pressure and shake ) and wait another day before drinking ( for clarifying to take place ) or slow carbonate over a week before drinking

Thoughts on this process?

 

[SeeMont]

The 10 gallon Corny gets were used as eye wash stations, I was given mine. I am on the look out of an other one.

Using the spudding valve: be careful, If you get any excessive blow off it will make a mess of this, especially is you have a guage in it. I use a tube in a bucket of Star San

Yes, I use a party tap to clear the sludge. I have never used gelatin, after cold crashing I find my beer is clear.

Good Luck Cheers

 

[EDF713]

The 10 gallon Corny gets were used as eye wash stations, I was given mine. I am on the look out of an other one.

Using the spudding valve: be careful, If you get any excessive blow off it will make a mess of this, especially is you have a guage in it. I use a tube in a bucket of Star San

Yes, I use a party tap to clear the sludge. I have never used gelatin, after cold crashing I find my beer is clear.

Good Luck Cheers

Agree 100% on crud spitting out of the spunding valve. I've used fermcap to help, but always put a rag underneath the output of the spunding valve just in case, and thankfully the blowtie can be taken apart to clean.

I have used gelatin to clear, it works well to clear cold break and suspended yeast, but will not clear protein or hop haze in my experience. I also have had trouble making clear beer fermented in a keg under pressure, but I'm working on it. The only clear one I made was a British Golden Ale, but with a small grain bill, not too many hops, plenty of mineralization, and S-04 yeast it would be hard to make one not clear.

To limit 02 exposure when gelatin fining, I inject with a big syringe into a piece of tubing attached to a gas disconnect through the gas in post. Make sure you purge any pressure first and that the beer is cold.

 

[LitBrewing]

How do you attach a blow off tube? Just take apart the valve temporarily?

 

[Dr_Jeff]

The 10 gallon Corny gets were used as eye wash stations

I found two of them at work, they were going to end up on the scrap metal pile.
Just had to pay to ship them 5000 miles home.

 

[day_trippr]

hahahaha! That's why I sent those fittings to your 'Bama residence!

Cheers!

 

[renstyle]

How do you attach a blow off tube? Just take apart the valve temporarily?

I've just used a gas disconnect with a length of hose, even without the addition of FermCap, little if any blow off.

 

[LitBrewing]

I've just used a gas disconnect with a length of hose, even without the addition of FermCap, little if any blow off.

Ah ok yeah that makes sense....idk why i thought it was more complicated.


the first 2 beers I brewed I had a ton of blowoff, then after that the rest have been pretty tame. Not sure why, perhaps a diff in headroom or ferm temp, or just the yeast/style/grain combo. Either way it's probably good to do the first few days with a blowoff at least.

 

[Ragman]

So the fermentation went well, had some massive blowoff from the gas disconnect into a bottle of star san, ended up overflowing inside my chamber - My keezer needed a good wash anyway.

Transfer went quick, clean and easy. Say goodbye to carboys cause this is the way to go.

I fermented these at about 63 degrees in my keezer, just adjusted the inkbird. After 10 days I threw in a hop bag with a couple of ounces of hops and a stainless steel fitting for weight. Used fishing line so it wouldnt sink to the bottom.

After 3 more days I added another couple ounces of hops but this time I threw them right in. I then waited another 3 days and dropped the temp on my inkbird down to 36 degrees. After about 48 hours I closed transferred to the serving kegs.

Beer tastes great and I have no complaints - no trub since initial pour in any glasses, very little trub in the bottom of fermenting keg - I was able to get more beer this way that syphoning from carboys. I will be doing fermentation in kegs and closed transfers from now on.

 

[LitBrewing]

What batch size are you guys using into the ferm keg? I did like 5.25 and it wasn't enough head room. I also did like 4.5 and it worked pretty well but maybe too much head room?

 

[Ragman]

Was a 9 gallon batch split between 2 5 gallon Cornys so about 4.5 gal in each.

 

[LitBrewing]

I thought about doing that, I only have a 14.5g kettle. Normally I do a no sparge so i'd almost need to fill it to the top to get 9g batch.

Any advice on how to get a final 9g with this setup?