Cloning HopHands by Tired Hands Brewing Company

[dstar26t]

Brewed a bigger version of this recipe yesterday. 1.060 OG, bumped the same varieties of hops up to 80 IBU (17 bittering + 63 hopstand) and used Pauls Mild Malt as the base. Pitched the Tired Hands yeast at 1 Million cells/mL/ºP at 64F after oxygenating to 12ppm. I've used Conan a few times this year and the Tired Hands yeast smells very similar. It has a Belgian Witbier type of aroma during propagation and is very aromatic so far during fermentation like Conan. In the spirit of their process, I'll have to put it on tap tomorrow, haha.

 

[mintyice]

Let us know how it turns out! I'm interested in changing up the hops in a future brew and mosaic/cites sound like really good choices.

Funny you should mention a higher mash temp, I brewed a ten gallon batch of this beer yesterday and I did just that-- while my first batch tasted delicious it was definitely in the thinner side.

I did a Mosaic, Galaxy and Amarillo one that was pretty great. This recipe is amazing no matter what.

 

[Coff]

One more step up and it's ready to go. Planning on brewing your recipe on Sunday, except using Pauls Mild malt as the base. It'll be a small BIAB stove top batch just to test the yeast.
Looks and smells good and healthy so far:

Looks super clean, cant wait to hear how it goes. If youre interested, I could send you some of Tired Hands Emptiness culture in return.

 

[Coff]

Brewed up a citra, amarillo, mosaic version of this today. Raised the mash temp a little to 154 to goose a little more body into the beer since 1217 dries it out a tad too much (that, and it fell around 149-150 the last time I brewed it). See you in 3 weeks!

I just did a batch where I subbed Mosaic for Simcoe and I might like it better. I split the batch between Conan and Brett Trois (which may or may not be a Brett strain afterall). Trois is actually pretty similar to Conan in hoppy beers when you ferment it on the cool side, cant wait for that version, just kegged it all last weekend.

BTW, I was out of Whirlfloc when I brewed this batch...dont forget that like I did, this thing looks like mud even after gelatin.

Brewed a bigger version of this recipe yesterday. 1.060 OG, bumped the same varieties of hops up to 80 IBU (17 bittering + 63 hopstand) and used Pauls Mild Malt as the base. Pitched the Tired Hands yeast at 1 Million cells/mL/ºP at 64F after oxygenating to 12ppm. I've used Conan a few times this year and the Tired Hands yeast smells very similar. It has a Belgian Witbier type of aroma during propagation and is very aromatic so far during fermentation like Conan. In the spirit of their process, I'll have to put it on tap tomorrow, haha.

I forget where I read/heard this, was either Kimmich or Brynildson, but the IBU extraction in the whirlpool is ~10% if what you get at boiling temps. It all depends on how cool the wort got to during the stand so its very inexact. But I would venture a guess that you didnt get 60+ IBU from the hop stand.

Im assuming Beersmith spit that out?

 

[dstar26t]

I forget where I read/heard this, was either Kimmich or Brynildson, but the IBU extraction in the whirlpool is ~10% if what you get at boiling temps. It all depends on how cool the wort got to during the stand so its very inexact. But I would venture a guess that you didnt get 60+ IBU from the hop stand.

Im assuming Beersmith spit that out?

When I do a 30 minute hopstand, I hold it above 200 and enter it into beersmith as a 20 min boil addition. I've heard 15% utilization during whirlpool from Brynildson (compared to 35% utilization in the kettle) which is the same as a 20 minute kettle addition.

 

[atom]

finally got my 2014 hop supply and plan to brew 10 gallons before the end of the year. i'm less than 2 hours from ardmore, but i've never had the real thing.

 

[Coff]

I must say, the batch I have on tap with Mosaic subbed for Simcoe might be better than the original. Which is more evidence that the grain bill and hop schedule is perfect to adapt to other blends of hops.

Might need to weasel in some Nelson Sauvin soon.

 

[atom]

brewed this today..ended up with 11 gal at 1.050...pitched some 007. looked/smelled tasted good...i'll dry hop and keg in the next 2 weeks and update.

 

[atom]

dry hop added... fg a little high at 1.015 (due to my high mash temp..157) oh well... kegging friday or saturday.

 

[Coff]

I am sure it will still taste awesome, I brewed a batch a while back that hung up at 1.016 and it still drank really good.

 

[ryancrook]

Forgot to mention but submitted this into a competition and took 2nd place!

 

[Coff]

I cant say I am surprised, I love this beer. Cheers, good on ya!

 

[atom]

very tasty. i'm glad I did a 10 gallon batch.

 

[Coff]

^^^That looks glorious.

This recipe is going to be featured in an upcoming article in BYO magazine! The secret is out!

 

[beergolf]

It is a great brew. I have brewd it several time and it is always a big hit.

That reminds me. i have to make another batch soon.

 

[globe]

I just brewed this and subbed the Mosaic for Centennial. I wanted to use all 2014 crop hops and thats what i had laying around. I also pitched WLP090, i need to to lay off the heady yeast for a bit. Hopefully it turns out, im pretty hyped for this beer.

 

[Ben58]

What does everyone think about using WY 1217 for this beer? It's in the queue.

 

[mintyice]

What does everyone think about using WY 1217 for this beer? It's in the queue.

I used 1217 for all 3 times I've made this recipe and I'm slowly starting to learn that you have to mash higher to get the same mouthfeel as the real thing. 1217 thins it out a tad too much at 150-152 so I'd either add some carapils or mash at 158-160 to get it to finish out around 1.010 like the real deal (actually might have to finish out higher with 1217 to get the same effect). It's always finished around 1.007-1.008 for me and it just lacks the same creaminess the real thing has. Next time I'm brewing this I'm going to switch to 1318 and see how it is, but I also have some Conan on hand already so who knows.

I just picked up some more hops today to play around with this grain bill. Trying to figure out the best combination of these hops (obviously not going to use all varieties or amounts).

in stock:
2oz Mosaic
2oz Meridian
1oz Nelson Sauvin
1oz Wakatu
2oz Amarillo
1oz Ahtanum
1oz Centennial
0.25oz Warrior
2oz Nugget
2oz Bravo

Any suggestions? I'm leaning towards making a New Zealand take on Hop Hands, but trying to figure out another hop to pair with Wakatu/Nelson.

^^^That looks glorious.

This recipe is going to be featured in an upcoming article in BYO magazine! The secret is out!

That's awesome! Did you write an article too or is it just the recipe?


bonus latest version (Mosaic, Citra, & Amarillo) picture:

 

[Coff]

I just picked up some more hops today to play around with this grain bill. Trying to figure out the best combination of these hops (obviously not going to use all varieties or amounts).

in stock:
2oz Mosaic
2oz Meridian
1oz Nelson Sauvin
1oz Wakatu
2oz Amarillo
1oz Ahtanum
1oz Centennial
0.25oz Warrior
2oz Nugget
2oz Bravo

Any suggestions? I'm leaning towards making a New Zealand take on Hop Hands, but trying to figure out another hop to pair with Wakatu/Nelson.



That's awesome! Did you write an article too or is it just the recipe?

Derek from Bear-flavored.com wrote the article, its about IPAs/PAs brewed in the Tired Hands/Hill Farm/ etc style of low bitterness and very aromartic etc etc. I answered a few questions and he is using this recipe and another in the article.

I havent used all of those hops so I am not sure, pick one that doesnt have much overlapping flavors aromas for some complexity. So something that might be tropical but can throw off some pine/dankness to balance the Nelson. I am going to be trying out some Ahtanum soon, which might work well but its a guess bc I dont know Wakatu well.

 

[priceman75]

I brewed this recipe many times with great results.
I'm thinking of adding some different fresh fruits to the secondary, maybe even some hot peppers to spice it up.
Has anyone done this?

 

[mintyice]

I brewed this recipe many times with great results.
I'm thinking of adding some different fresh fruits to the secondary, maybe even some hot peppers to spice it up.
Has anyone done this?

First time I brewed it I added a clementine tincture to the keg and it definitely pumped up the citrus level. I just mashed up clementines in a shaker bottle and added a little vodka to sanitize anything weird that may have gotten in there. It also helped to extract more flavors from the juice. The whole thing sat in my fridge for about a week before I strained it and dumped the contents into the bottom of a keg. I tried just the tincture by itself and it was really tasty. I probably used 5 or 6 whole clementines and maybe 2 or 3 ounces of vodka.

I'm sure it would be great with fresh mango puree as well if you want to make something like TH's Mago Tago.

 

[mintyice]

Brewed up a Mosaic, Centennial and Amarillo version today. First time using Wyeast 1318. Should be interesting!

 

[rjstew]

My future sister in law asked me to brew a "craft beer" for her wedding in May. She specified that she wants 6 cases of a "Hoppy, but not too hoppy and not too strong" beer. I was browsing for something unrelated on HBT and stumbled across this recipe, which looks perfect. I live in Philly and visit Tired Hands once a month so I'm well versed in their amazing beers.

I have two questions:

1) Should I go with Mosaic or Simcoe hops? I just brewed a Citra & Mosaic IPA two weeks ago, but it's still in primary and haven't been able to taste yet.

2) Should I use Wyeast 1217 or Conan? I brewed a 5 gallon IPA about 6 months ago with Conan that I cultured from two cans of Heady Topper and washed the yeast into 5 pint mason jars after the IPA was finished in primary. The mason jars have been in the fridge for 6 months. Obviously I'd make a stepped up starter from the washed yeast.

 

[Coff]

This beer sounds like it would fit perfectly with what she is asking for, but you've had HopHands so you probably already know that.

I would stick to the recipe the first time through so get a feel for it, and see how close you can get to the original. So use the Simcoe and the Conan, or another expressive English strain you might enjoy like London Ale III, WLP002, S04 to name a few. Let us know how it turns out.

 

[globe]

I just kegged this the other day and it is pretty good so far. It was a lot better before i dry hopped though, so it must be a little green yet. The hop aroma punches you in the face on this one.

 

[mintyice]

I'm curious if people are still doing 6oz dry hops with this. I've been cutting down to 3oz and get pretty much the same amount of aroma without as much loss in beer. Maybe my dry hop technique just sucks.

1318 batch is looking good. Fermentation slowed down a ton after 48 hours but it still has a huge krausen on it that won't go away. I guess it's true that this strain is a real top cropper.

Also, I really have to try this recipe with Pearl malt. I got a pound of it laying around and just by chewing on it I can tell it's amazing. The avangard 2 row I've been using hasn't been cutting it. The color always come out a little off, and it doesn't have the same flavor.

 

[rjstew]

Quick question about IBU's. When I plug my numbers into Brewtoad for a 6 gallon batch, I'm getting 42 IBU's with 0.6 oz of 17.5%AA Columbus at 60 minutes. Why is the original recipe getting 47 IBU's with only 0.25oz of Columbus?

Fermentables

Amount Fermentable Maltster Use PPG Color
5.0 lb Maris Otter Pale (UK) Any 41 % Mash 38 3 °L
5.0 lb 2-Row (US) Any 41 % Mash 37 1 °L
2.0 lb Flaked Oats Any 16 % Boil 33 2 °L
Hops

Amount Hop Time Use Form AA
0.6 oz Columbus (US) 60 min First Wort Pellet 17.5%
0.5 oz Amarillo (US) 5 min Boil Pellet 9.3%
0.5 oz Centennial (US) 5 min Boil Pellet 10.5%
0.5 oz Simcoe (US) 5 min Boil Pellet 13.0%
0.25 oz Centennial (US) 5 days Dry Hop Pellet 10.5%
0.25 oz Amarillo (US) 5 days Dry Hop Pellet 9.3%
0.25 oz Simcoe (US) 5 days Dry Hop Pellet 13.0%
0.5 oz Amarillo (US) 0 min Whirlpool Pellet 9.3%
0.5 oz Centennial (US)1 0 min Whirlpool Pellet 10.5%
0.5 oz Simcoe (US) 0 min Whirlpool Pellet 13.0%
Yeasts

Name Lab/Product Attenuation
Vermont Ale 78.0%
Predicted Stats

Batch Size 6.0 gal Boil Time60 minEfficiency67.0%
1.049 OG 1.011 FG 37 IBU 5.0% ABV 3 SRM

 

[mintyice]

Just kegged and dry hopped batch 4 with Simcoe, Mosaic, Centennial and Amarillo. I took a reading and 1318 finished out at 1.012 from 1.046 (74% AA). I didn't get a chance to taste it yet but it smells amazing!

 

[dstar26t]

Just kegged and dry hopped batch 4 with Simcoe, Mosaic, Centennial and Amarillo. I took a reading and 1318 finished out at 1.012 from 1.046 (74% AA). I didn't get a chance to taste it yet but it smells amazing!

What temp did you mash this one? Looking forward to your tasting notes. I'd like to give this strain a shot.

 

[mintyice]

What temp did you mash this one? Looking forward to your tasting notes. I'd like to give this strain a shot.

I mashed at a solid 152 for 70 minutes. Depending on how sweet it ends up tasting I may end up mashing lower next time to squeeze out a few more points, especially since Hop Hands' actual FG is 1.010.

 

[mintyice]

Tasting some chilled/semi-carbed/super young 1318 now. Aroma is spot on, if not better than the real deal. Super aromatic and delicious. Might be too early to tell, but 1318 definitely gives the same kind of body and mouthfeel as Conan and blows 1217 out of the water for this beer. This might be the closest I've come to emulating Tired Hands' style which leads me to believe this could be the right yeast. I'll put my theory to the test when I visit this weekend. It needs another week or so in the keg to condition and carb up, but it's tasting mighty fine right now.

 

[mintyice]

left - TH, right - clone

I went to Tired Hands over the weekend so I have some brief notes on the differences.

This is the closest I've come to a clone, and if I didn't do a side by side I'd say this was spot on, but doing a side by side the differences are rather obvious. I'm probably 95% there now.

-99% sure the yeast is the same one (1318)
-clone is danker but I used some Mosaic in the dry hop. clone aroma smells like straight bagged pellets, HH aroma is better; less 'raw', more juicy citrus fruit. I need to work on my dry hop technique. Maybe less contact time??
-clone is a tad darker
-HH is maltier, pale ale malt is necessary for this. (I used 2row) Oats could maybe be upped to 17.5% (not sure if pale ale malt would necessitate this)
-HH is more floral/citrus in aroma
-clone hop flavor is pretty spot on, but it differs in malt presence and overall smoothness via malt. clone comes off more like a IPA (drier, but I think pale ale malt could fix it, might also mash a little higher next time?), HH is very much a hoppy pale; smooth hoppy AND malty.

 

[Coff]

Great notes there. I'll be using 1318 shortly on this beer as well, heard from a good source that its what TH uses and your experiences support that.

I have always used Pale Malt on this beer, I always prefer it over 2-row. Despite how heavily hopped this beer is you still need a nice base malt to support it. I am actually thinking about increasing the oast a little bit again to. I really like the beer with 15% Oats but I the flavor contribution from the Oats is in the background a little more than I want.

Cheers.

 

[Coff]

Quick question about IBU's. When I plug my numbers into Brewtoad for a 6 gallon batch, I'm getting 42 IBU's with 0.6 oz of 17.5%AA Columbus at 60 minutes. Why is the original recipe getting 47 IBU's with only 0.25oz of Columbus?

Fermentables

Amount Fermentable Maltster Use PPG Color
5.0 lb Maris Otter Pale (UK) Any 41 % Mash 38 3 °L
5.0 lb 2-Row (US) Any 41 % Mash 37 1 °L
2.0 lb Flaked Oats Any 16 % Boil 33 2 °L
Hops

Amount Hop Time Use Form AA
0.6 oz Columbus (US) 60 min First Wort Pellet 17.5%
0.5 oz Amarillo (US) 5 min Boil Pellet 9.3%
0.5 oz Centennial (US) 5 min Boil Pellet 10.5%
0.5 oz Simcoe (US) 5 min Boil Pellet 13.0%
0.25 oz Centennial (US) 5 days Dry Hop Pellet 10.5%
0.25 oz Amarillo (US) 5 days Dry Hop Pellet 9.3%
0.25 oz Simcoe (US) 5 days Dry Hop Pellet 13.0%
0.5 oz Amarillo (US) 0 min Whirlpool Pellet 9.3%
0.5 oz Centennial (US)1 0 min Whirlpool Pellet 10.5%
0.5 oz Simcoe (US) 0 min Whirlpool Pellet 13.0%
Yeasts

Name Lab/Product Attenuation
Vermont Ale 78.0%
Predicted Stats

Batch Size 6.0 gal Boil Time60 minEfficiency67.0%
1.049 OG 1.011 FG 37 IBU 5.0% ABV 3 SRM

Brewtoad just might calculate FWH additions differently. Dont worry about it too much, just get your IBUs within range and youre fine. This beer really isnt about the bitterness, which there is little, its all about the flavor/aroma hops as well as the yeast. I dont even think the iBUs calculated in my original recipe is what I really get in the beer, doesnt take like a nearly 50IBU beer thats for sure.

 

[dstar26t]

I too did a batch with 1318 on 2/14. Mashed at 145F for 60 minutes then 160F for 15 minutes to finish conversion. Pitched at 64F and held for 36 hours then linearly ramped over 3 days to 70F. 1.0585 OG down to 1.010 as of last night so I dryhopped and capped since there was no more off gassing. I did not see the everlasting krausen last night that people talk about...it was gone. I was worried about this yeast attenuating but 82.2% ADF is great with an all malt gist (Pauls Mild and 15% flaked oats). Tasted and smelled great even before dryhopping and with all that yeast in there. I have another isolate slanted from a growler of fresh HopHands that I will try and compare to this batch. I didn't love the beer that the last isolate produced and have changed my procedure to reduce the chance of picking their Saison yeast which may have been what happened.

 

[cuda6pak]

Any new tasting/comparisons on this clone? I'm ready to brew up a second batch, 10 gallons this time.

 

[mintyice]

Any new tasting/comparisons on this clone? I'm ready to brew up a second batch, 10 gallons this time.

I started a blog post about it but never got around to finishing it. Basically, use Wyeast 1318 if you haven't been because so much of the flavor and mouthfeel comes from that yeast. Pale ale malt is required to get that layer of malt complexity. Mosaic can be subbed for Simcoe if you want something a little fruitier.

 

[Coff]

^^^ Great advice, he may even know this beer better than me at this point.

I havent used 1318 yet, although I plan to, but Ive brewed 4-5 variations on this with WLP644 and absolutely love it with that yeats. Once I get to 8 generations on that pitch I will trash it and start a few month cycle with 1318.

Ive also been playing with a higher Chloride:Sulfate ratio in this beer and am really loving the creamy texture I am getting with that.

 

[cuda6pak]

Great - I will try 1318 this next time.

Coff - what do your water profile numbers look like and mash pH for this beer?

 

[mintyice]

Great - I will try 1318 this next time.

Coff - what do your water profile numbers look like and mash pH for this beer?

Another aspect I've been messing with for this recipe. I tried high sulfate (~300ppm) in one batch and it was kind of off putting. It had a mineraly aftertaste I wasn't a huge fan of. Good for boosting the perceived bitterness of IPAs but of out place for this beer.

According to Bru'n water, with the 1318 batch I did:
~115ppm Ca
5ppm Mg
10pp Sodium
120ppm Sulfate
100ppm Chloride
-2ppm Bicarbonate
300 total hardness
-2 alkalinity
-87 RA

I think a pretty balanced So4/Cl ratio is key for this beer, but it's still something I'm playing with. I aimed for around 5.3ph but since I don't actually measure who knows what it was.

My existing water is pretty soft, so I usually only add CaCl, Gypsum and lactic acid.