Clone Recipes

[sashurlow]

So I'm not an expert after one year of brewing and I'm interested in hearing what the experts have to say on this topic.
People ask all the time for a clone recipe for hard cider. Its my assumption that hard ciders are dang near impossible to replicate due to the taste largely coming from the blend of apples. In order to clone a cider you would need to know the blend of apples the manufacturer uses. How true is this statement?
It would seem that beer would be much easier to replicate as anybody has access to the exact ingredients the big boys use. I don't think we have that same privilege with cider.
Thoughts?

 

[Yooper]

I agree.

It would also be impossible to "clone" a wine for the same reasons.

 

[gregbathurst]

I think one of the great things about home cider and winemaking is the opportunity to produce a drink that is absolutely unique. The big producers go to great lengths to ensure their products are uniform and consistent, but it means their products can become boring. The best wines in the world are usually produced in small quantities and vary a lot from year to year, because this makes the wines more appealing to connoisseurs. So long as you get a good drink there is no need to make it like another drink.

I was at a talk by a producer of cheap boxed wine, she said they get a lot of complaints if their wine changes at all, they have to ensure that every batch tastes like the previous batch.

 

[NiteBeest]

I may be speaking a little out of turn here as I'm fairly new at this too, but I'm always for make whatever tastes good to you. If you know you like a certain cider because it's dry, semi-sweet, has some body, whatever... Find a recipe that gets a cider that way and try it. Then mess around if you don't like how it turned out and try to get it closer. Eventually you'll find how to make what you do like. At that point, you can stick with that and have the added satisfaction of making your own that is better than brand X.

 

[RobWalker]

I think one of the great things about home cider and winemaking is the opportunity to produce a drink that is absolutely unique.

I couldn't agree more. Plus, have you ever been to a shop and been able to buy winter spiced strawberry cider or medieval burnt honey mead? Nope, but here you have the opportunity to make whatever you like!

It would come from the blend of apples indeed, but any good cider should give you some indication. Even the commercial brewers rely on their ageing processes too! Green Goblin is a very popular "premium" cider here and it's aged in 100 year old oak vats.

Alternatively, you could ask the company themselves for a rough idea of their blend, but I wouldn't expect to be cloning strongbow or bulmers any time soon.

 

[patriqq]

I think most commercial ciders are made with commercial juice and/or concentrate, which has a uniform taste regardless of brand (for the most part).

If you use the same juice, you'll get the same results.

Take Sam Smith's for example. They use organic juice concentrate. How many sources of organic concentrate are out there? On the consumer level, in the US, there is only one that I can find.

 

[NiteBeest]

I just use Tree Top apple juice whenever I make a cider. It's a good brand and has a good flavor. I know some people use store brands and those will turn out fine for them. Some people use frozen concentrate and reconstitute it. It's all just a matter of what you like and/or what you want to use. Plus a few gallons of apple juice isn't really that expensive so you can keep trying without making a huge dent in your pocket.