Classic American Pilsner Recipe....feedback!!

[brentt03]

This is my first go at a Classic American Pilsner; the taste I am looking for is a classic pilsner taste with a bit of sweetness to it. Here is what I have so far, the IBU's are a little low; seems like there are so many hops that would fit a pilsner well, so having a hard time picking some out lol...well take a look and let me know what you all think!

Thanks

Batch Size: 3.5lbs
Efficiency: 65%

7.00 lbs Pale Malt (6 Row)
1.00 lbs Flake Maize
0.50 lbs Honey Malt
2.00 oz Cluster (60 min)
2.00 oz Styrian (20 min)
2.00 oz Santiam (10 min)

OG: 1.056
IBU: 20.7
SRM: 6.2
Est ABV: 5.8%

 

[Piratwolf]

According to Papazian's book, 18-25 IBUs is just right for a pilsner.I'm thinking of doing something like this, so I'll be interested to hear more on your experience!

 

[brentt03]

According to Papazian's book, 18-25 IBUs is just right for a pilsner.I'm thinking of doing something like this, so I'll be interested to hear more on your experience!

Good deal!! I figured +/- 5 IBU's wouldn't hurt to bad

 

[Malticulous]

More hops, no honey malt. I think you want 30-35 IBU.
The best info I have on a real cap is 2.5-3lb hops per barrel. They did not know about AA% back then and had to blend batches to get consistent bitterness. There were commonly three hop additions. The worst hops went in first for bittering, for flavor better hops were used and for aroma the freshest were added. 2/5th bittering, 2/5ths flavor and the last fifth for aroma.

 

[brentt03]

More hops, no honey malt. I think you want 30-35 IBU.
The best info I have on a real cap is 2.5-3lb hops per barrel. They did not know about AA% back then and had to blend batches to get consistent bitterness. There were commonly three hop additions. The worst hops went in first for bittering, for flavor better hops were used and for aroma the freshest were added. 2/5th bittering, 2/5ths flavor and the last fifth for aroma.

Great Info! Why do you say no Honey Malt?? I know pilsners are a traditional brew, but I like to throw a bit of a curve ball, i felt with the honey @ only .5 lbs it may add just a bit of sweetness on the palate but not take away from the pilsner taste?!?

 

[Rhoobarb]

I wouldn't waste good Styrians on a CAP. Stick with high alpha American hops in low doses. Simcoe is a good choice. They were originally developed for A/B so they could get AA's for less $$'s. Turns out Simcoe became a homebrew favorite. I think the honey malt will be interesting.

 

[Kokopuff829]

BYO's latest issue has a Classic American Pilsner recipe.
9lbs 6-row
2.25 brewers grits or degermed Corn meal
7 AAU Cluster (60min) (1oz of 7.0% alpha acid)
5 AAU Styrian Goldings(15min) (1oz 5.0% alpha acid)
White Labs WLP833 or Wyeast 2487
Cereal mash corn grits. Mash in main mash to 140. Transfer cereal mash to main mash and adjust temperature to 152. Boil for 70min. Ferment at 52.

 

[Malticulous]

I wouldn't waste Simcoe on a CAP.

 

[Piratwolf]

i wouldn't waste simcoe on a cap.

+1000000000000!!!!!

 

[Rundownhouse]

I'd second not having the honey malt in there. Play with the mash temp, yeast, or fermentation instead. Do a decoction to get a little bit of a fuller, rounder mouthfeel, that might be the sweetness you're looking for. Maybe use a yeast with more of a malt accent to do the same type thing. Or maybe ferment a touch higher to get some fruity esters that add perceived sweetness.

I'm not sure why but I really don't like the thought of the honey malt in there, and I'd try any one of those things before I messed with a standard APils grain bill.

 

[Malticulous]

Great Info! Why do you say no Honey Malt?? I know pilsners are a traditional brew, but I like to throw a bit of a curve ball, i felt with the honey @ only .5 lbs it may add just a bit of sweetness on the palate but not take away from the pilsner taste?!?

I would not use more than ~2%. A different brumalt like melanoiden or aromatic would be better. I don't think it's authentic.

Jeff Renner's Your Father's Mustache recipe seems the most popular CAP. I'd say it's more of the post prohibition formulation and getting much more like a modern euro-lager than the classic American style from before prohibition.
http://www.brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue3.5/renner.html

 

[brentt03]

I would not use more than ~2%. A different brumalt like melanoiden or aromatic would be better. I don't think it's authentic.

Jeff Renner's Your Father's Mustache recipe seems the most popular CAP. I'd say it's more of the post prohibition formulation and getting much more like a modern euro-lager than the classic American style from before prohibition.
BT - Reviving the Classic American Pilsner - A Shamefully Neglected Style

I like the idea of sub'ing the Honey Malt for the Aromatic Malt....makes sense to get your actual sweetness from the flavor of the malt itself in a pilsner rather than adding a Honey Malt; to be honest I may do two different batches to see how the Honey Malt plays out, for some reason I just can't get away from wanting to add it.

It's a 2'fer I think, either add the honey and get additional sweetness, or add aromatic and get sweetness from the malt flavor. Only fear of removing the honey and adding the aromatic is to much maltiness.

Could a possibility be to sub the 6-Row for Pilsner Malt and in turn add aromatic malt??

Gonna play with the hops today and post a recipe update! Thanks for the info and help guys! Best site ever!

 

[brentt03]

Ok here is the update:

Batch Size: 3.5lbs
Efficiency: 65%

7.00 lbs Pale Malt (6 Row)
1.00 lbs Flake Maize
0.15 lbs Honey Malt
2.00 oz Galena (60 min)
2.00 oz Mt. Hood (20 min)
2.00 oz Santiam (10 min)

OG: 1.053
IBU: 32
SRM: 4.8
Est ABV: 5.6%

**Changes are in Bold/Italics

 

[Cellarbrau]

I'm not all that familiar with the classic american pilsener style. Is the 6 row malt a historical thing? I would be using a good 2 row malt for sure but I'm not concerning myself with stylistic accuracy or trying to win awards.

 

[Malticulous]

There was some 2-row available but it was considered inferior at the time. Today's malt is probably little like the stuff that they floor malted by hand in the 19th century. Modern brewing cultivars have been bred to be flavorless, and modern malting processes can add much less flavor and color. The fact is you can't even make a preprohibition lager, much less 18th century porter with modern malts.

 

[wildwest450]

Very good beer, I would brew it as is. I used 2272 and 2035, both were solid, I believe the 2272 is only available as a seasonal yeast.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f58/schmipielschaerheingoldter-97553/


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[brentt03]

Very good beer, I would brew it as is. I used 2272 and 2035, both were solid, I believe the 2272 is only available as a seasonal yeast.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f58/schmipielschaerheingoldter-97553/

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Brew as is from the first post? Or the second one with .15lbs honey malt and different hops??

 

[pjj2ba]

I agree with the others about skipping the honey malt. Aromatic is a good choice and works well. I also agree that a CAP should be bitter, 35-45 IBUs. It is the American version of the European lager, and most of those are over 30 IBUs. In your original range, I would just call it a Standard American lager.

Galena and Mt Hood are good choices

What it like to do is use a Bock/Octoberfest yeast. The corn tends to lighten the beer, but using these yeast, they don't attenuate as much as other lager yeast, and the final beer has a little extra body to it.

 

[Malticulous]

I get the body and creamy mouth feel form the step mash. Look at YFM, Bushwick Pilsner (Bob sites his is based on some of the same beers that the Bushwick lager is based on) and George Fix's Pale Lager.

I always do a cereal mash. I've done it both with and without a protein rest. The protein rest does make it better. Dough in 130 10-20 minutes, step to 145, 10-30 minutes, add cereal mash to 155 until converted. I try to berw them based on info from The American Handy Book of Brewing.