Clarity-Ferm, Gluten Testing, and Gluten Sensitivity

[Corrado]

One vial is good for the equivalent of 5 gallons, according to the packaging on the vial. I would imagine that it could probably be stretched to 6 or 7 gallons, to create a buffer. If your making a 5 gal batch, you could use the one vial. Any more than that and I would double up.

Anyone try making wheat beers with the clarity ferm and get good results with a gluten intolerance? I was thinking of making a belgian wit or a hefeweizen for my wife. If CF works, I will be good. She's able to drink the blonde I made with no I'll effects, and appreciates that she can finally have a real beer. That sorghum stuff is awful.

White Labs indicates 12ml/BBL for making gluten-reduced beer. The 10ml vial is very capable of handling a 5 gallon batch.

https://www.whitelabs.com/sites/default/files/Clarity Ferm Spec Sheet.pdf

 

[Safa]

Thanks for the responses guys, will report back on results!

Wyeast I bought turned out to be manufactured on November 3rd (ugh!), so with that atrocious 27% viability I've had to do two 4 litre starters. Brew day still on schedule.

 

[wolves63]

Will be brewing a Vienna Lager this weekend (Revvy's recipe, on this forum) and will be adding Clarity ferm.

Picked up some EZ-Gluten testing kits, will test after I've kegged the batch. If test is negative, the wife will try it and I'll report back.

Wondering if there is any advantage to using a double dose of the stuff, or if it will not help at all?

There is no reason to double dose. There is a podcast down by basic brewing on clarity ferm. There was a college that did an experiment on dosage amounts and gluten reduction as well as various other experiments in regards to gluten and beer. Very interesting podcast. Below is the podcast date. I would highly recommend it.

September 4, 2014 - Clarity Ferm Gluten Reduction Experiment

Dr. Chris Hamilton of Hillsdale College talks about his experiment attempting to make practically gluten free beers using Clarity Ferm from White Labs.

 

[wolves63]

White Labs indicates 12ml/BBL for making gluten-reduced beer. The 10ml vial is very capable of handling a 5 gallon batch.

https://www.whitelabs.com/sites/default/files/Clarity Ferm Spec Sheet.pdf

The 12ml / BBL is a different product concentration. It is a more concentrated and used for commercial breweries. I had a discussion with their sales for in regards to this. The small product they offer to home brewers was diluted with sterile water.

 

[Corrado]

The 12ml / BBL is a different product concentration. It is a more concentrated and used for commercial breweries. I had a discussion with their sales for in regards to this. The small product they offer to home brewers was diluted with sterile water.

Do you have a source for that? I was told the exact opposite -- the stuff in the homebrew-sized vial is the same as the commercially-sized liquid. There's also a dry product called Brewer's Clarex that has a different dosage.

Regardless, the dosage, for all practical terms, is by VOLUME, not by gravity. Unless you're brewing 6-8 gallons something over 1.120, the homebrew vial will do its job.

Bumping this thread again since this guy has actual, scientific data to back up the performance of the product. http://beerandwinejournal.com/clarity-ferm-i/

 

[wolves63]

Do you have a source for that? I was told the exact opposite -- the stuff in the homebrew-sized vial is the same as the commercially-sized liquid. There's also a dry product called Brewer's Clarex that has a different dosage.

Regardless, the dosage, for all practical terms, is by VOLUME, not by gravity. Unless you're brewing 6-8 gallons something over 1.120, the homebrew vial will do its job.

Bumping this thread again since this guy has actual, scientific data to back up the performance of the product. http://beerandwinejournal.com/clarity-ferm-i/

Sorry about taking so long to get back to you on this, I have been working on my brewery and working too many hours a day. Below is a conversation I had with the representative from white labs:

Christina Porn <[email protected]>

3/11/15

to me
Dosage is for two things.
1.chill haze
2. Gluten reduction

here is the spec sheet

http://www.whitelabs.com/files/Enzyme_ClarityFerm_Spec Sheet.pdf
John Oglesbee <[email protected]>

3/11/15

to Christina
Right, I was just surprised that I was the same amount whether it was 5 gallons or 1 BBL.

John Oglesbee <[email protected]>

3/11/15

to me
Its different concentrations and slightly different products.

Also just as a side note I recently purchased brewer's clarex and it is a liquid even though it is measured in grams and has dosing recommendations in grams (I know really annoying: I ended up measuring out 100ml of the stuff, getting the grams of that and dividing it by 100 to get the ml to grams conversion to make my life easier)

 

[milldoggy]

Can I ask where you got the brewers clarex? I go through the small tubes like butter.

 

[wolves63]

Can I ask where you got the brewers clarex? I go through the small tubes like butter.

Two things. One I am opening a brewery so I have contracts with wholesale suppliers and two It is expensive. The smallest container is 5 kg which is about 1.5 gallons in size. I use 2.7ml per 1/2 bbl which isn't much but when you have a 7 BBL system it adds up. Two, You won't like the price tag. For 5 kg it is 995.00 plus shipping.

 

[pepindavid]

Just wanted to share another success story (at least for now!) with Clarity Ferm. My girlfriend is celiac, and her mother is at least gluten sensitive (not diagnosed, but she gets significant symptoms with gluten, including beer). I have brewed to batches with Clarity Ferm so far, and both have been able to enjoy the beer without side effects. They only took up to a pint, for the moment (they were quite skeptical), but so far so good.

Very good news for me, as making "real beer" available to my girlfriend and MIL certainly helps the girlfriend to appreciate the hobby..!

 

[thaymond]

Here's good news for those wondering. I tried CF with a 50/50 grist of barley and malted wheat, and still have no reaction. Ymmv, but the package only notated barley beers. At least with a 50/50 grist, it works also with wheat.

OG 1.052, FG 1.012.

 

[GregP507]

I never gave much thought to gluten. I thought it only concerned a few people with certain sensitivities. I was disappointed to learn that it affects virtually everyone, including me. But when I eat bread or any of the cereal grains, it upsets my digestion. When I don't, i doesn't. Solid proof for me.

 

[celiacsurvivor]

I have pointed this out before but I think it is worth repeating for people who are new to this thread.

If you have coeliac (or celiac) disease then any gluten you ingest is potentially doing you harm even if you don't have a noticeable reaction!

So if you are using clarity ferm on a barley based beer and giving it to someone with coeliac disease make sure you tell them there is potentially gluten in it.

 

[TanLang]

I heard one has to be snarky to keep the world in balance so I thought this would do it "This is medicine, not just chemistry." posted by an acupuncturist...

Acupuncturists study Western pathophysiology, anatomy, physiology, and are fully integrated into the conventional medical system. Insurance companies pay for acupuncture office visits and treatments. Hospitals and insurance companies have acupuncturists on staff.

Research at some of the most respected research hospitals and institutions have shown efficacy and applicability of acupuncture in double-blind, randomized trials, over and over.

It isn't a miracle tool applicable to everything but your lack of respect for it is offensive to me.

Your comment is ignorant and ridiculous.

/end rant

 

[noiz2]

It isn't a miracle tool applicable to everything but your lack of respect for it is offensive to me.

Your comment is ignorant and ridiculous.

/end rant

First off the quote was about beer, posted by an acupuncturist, I just quoted it.

My "comment" was about reducing gluten with Clarity Ferm, and if you read it you would have gotten the connection between chemistry and medicine.

My personal opinions on acupuncture are about the same as they are on chiropractors, it seems to work for some people and if it works for you go for it. Neither has much in the way of hard science to back up sometimes pretty wild claims to cur all kinds of things. They both started with little oversight and so had some fraudulent practitioners that gave them a bad image. I'm not current on exactly where they stand today so maybe things have changed a bunch? I spent a fair amount of time looking into both a number of years ago, so no this opinion is not coming from a place of ignorance and it is certainly not ridiculous. I grew up in an area that had tons of acupuncturists and very few if any had any formal medical education, when I looked into them neither had any medical certification/ licensing, so pretty much anybody could say they were a practitioner. Chiropractors had certifications from the industry but not AMA and I knew people who treated people and had no medical education whatsoever.

None of this means it doesn't work just that it was near impossible to know if it did or not since it was very hard to sift the fakes from the people who actually had studied.

I will assume that if insurers are covering it and hospitals are letting acupuncturists practice in them that things have changed and there is some form of license, certification now.

But all of this is in response to your rant, my post was NOT about acupuncturists.

Sorry you were offended.

 

[brujoand]

Acupuncturists study Western pathophysiology, anatomy, physiology, and are fully integrated into the conventional medical system. Insurance companies pay for acupuncture office visits and treatments. Hospitals and insurance companies have acupuncturists on staff.

Research at some of the most respected research hospitals and institutions have shown efficacy and applicability of acupuncture in double-blind, randomized trials, over and over.

It isn't a miracle tool applicable to everything but your lack of respect for it is offensive to me.

Your comment is ignorant and ridiculous.

/end rant

Quit your bull****. Acupuncture has been completely and utterly debunked. There is only one way it can and does work, and that is to relieve local pain because it is penetrating the skin. The reason for this is that whenever the skin or other body parts are harmed the body produces it's on variant of morphine. So it is in no way a quality of acupuncture, but rather just the way our bodies work.

And if you think that the fact that insurance companies pay for it is an argument for the effectiveness of acupuncture, you should consider the fact that the NHS just stopped doing this exact thing in the UK. Because it doesn't work.

 

[celiacsurvivor]

Quit your bull****. Acupuncture has been completely and utterly debunked. There is only one way it can and does work, and that is to relieve local pain because it is penetrating the skin. The reason for this is that whenever the skin or other body parts are harmed the body produces it's on variant of morphine. So it is in no way a quality of acupuncture, but rather just the way our bodies work.

And if you think that the fact that insurance companies pay for it is an argument for the effectiveness of acupuncture, you should consider the fact that the NHS just stopped doing this exact thing in the UK. Because it doesn't work.

Well said, I couldn't agree more.

 

[tonyOb]

I have been including Clarity Ferm in my beers for a couple of years now. My wife is gluten intolerant, it causes her to have digestive issues (the feeling of having brick in the digestive tract), flu-like aches, and brain fog. Takes her 3 days to get over being "glued". My nephew has ceilacs. Both my wife and my Nephew can drink my clarity ferm treated beer with no symptoms. I'm not a doctor, so I can't make draw any other conclusions. Overall, I am happy with the gluten-reducing properties of the product.

I brew 10 gallon, all grain batches. Mash in an igloo cooler, boil in a kettle, chill with a plate chiller. I primary in buckets, and after a maximum of 10 days to 2 weeks, I rack into glass carboys for a secondary. I rarely bottle - the beer is then kegged and aged.

I can produce very clear beer with either no additives, or whirlflock at 10 minutes. I noticed that I was unable to produce clear beer using clarity ferm. I tried splitting the batches - 5 gallons with clarity ferm, 5 without. The beer without clarity ferm was clearer. Over several batches, I would add clarity ferm to the first 5 gallons out of the keggle, then to the second. No difference, the clarity ferm was always less clear. A member of my homebrew club tried the same experiment, and achieved the same results. I called White labs, and they were nice. They asked questions about my technique and setup, and tried to zero in on kettle trub as the issue. I described my experiment, and the fact that a fellow member of my homebrew club repeated the experiment with the same results. I followed up with this email.

We talked on the phone on Monday about some issues I've had with your Clarity Ferm product. First, let me reiterate that I'm completely satisfied with it's performance in terms of reducing gluten. My Nephew has full blown Ceilac's disease and he can drink my beer with no issues. My wife is gluten intolerant and has a nasty reaction to gluten, and she is able drink beer brewed with Clarity Ferm, noticing only the very mildest symptoms.

The issue I have is the clarity of the beer treated with Clarity Ferm. I typically brew 10 gallon all grain batches. After chilling the wort, I rack the beer into 6 gallon buckets. When the bucket contains 5 gallons of chilled wort, I pitch the yeast and add a vial of Clarity Ferm. After primary fermentation has completed (3-7 days) I transfer into glass carboys for secondary fermentation. Depending on the type of beer, between 1-4 weeks later I typically keg, but occasionally bottle the beer. I have brewed about 10 batches of beer using Clarity Ferm. For some of these batches, I added Clarity Ferm to one of the primary buckets only, and in some of the batches I added it to both primaries. I've added the Clarity Ferm to the first runnings of a batch; I've added it to the second runnings with the same results. I've yet to produce a beer that is not hazy or cloudy using Clarity Ferm. The photos attached are typical of most batches. Based on the fact that my beer without Clarity Ferm is quite clear, I don't think the problem is in my process.

My friend and fellow home brewer Paul Simms, who I have copied on this email, has experienced similar results. We have tried to come up with possible causes of this, and he offered the possibility that the amount of Clarity Ferm could possibly being the issue - perhaps the amount could vary with the grain bill, yeast used, or some other variable? That gives rise to some specific questions about the dose of Clarity Ferm, specifically:

1) Does the gravity of the beer have any effect on the ideal amount of Clarity Ferm to use?
2) Does the type of Grain (Barley vs Wheat, adjuncts, etc.) have any effect on the ideal amount of Clarity Ferm to use?
3) Does the type of yeast have any effect on the ideal amount of Clarity Ferm to use?
4) Is there any known "gotcha" that can inhibit the effectiveness of Clarity Ferm such as the water's mineral content, temperature at some specific point in the process, or some other factor?

I certainly don't want to do anything that favors clarity over reducing gluten content, I'm very happy that my gluten-challenged friends and family can drink my beer. But - anything you can do to help us achieve both clarity and reduced gluten would be greatly appreciated.

Regarding the pictures:

I have attached several pictures of a batch of Maibock I brewed on January 3. I have not carbonated it yet. I added Clarity Ferm to 5 gallons, and the other 5 gallons has no Clarity Ferm. I didn't use whirlflock in this batch. The tasting glass with the green logo contains the beer with no Clarity Ferm, the glass with the brownish-red logo contains the beer with Clarity Ferm. The beer was cold at the time the picture was taken, and it's humid on the gulf coast, so the glasses began to sweat. I wiped them and took the pictures as quickly as possible. The pictures that shows the issue most noticeably and accurately are the ones from the top down that are sitting on the plaque. You can see that it is possible to read the plaque through the untreated beer, but not through the beer with Clarity Ferm. I reduced the size of these pictures in order to email them, if you'd like to see them in original size I'll be glad to send them.


Thanks for your time, I appreciate it and look forward to your reply.

I did not receive a response, so I sent it a second time. Still no response.

Has anyone else noticed that clarity ferm treated beer is less clear? If so, any ideas or suggestions?

 

[TanLang]

Quit your bull****. Acupuncture has been completely and utterly debunked. There is only one way it can and does work, and that is to relieve local pain because it is penetrating the skin. The reason for this is that whenever the skin or other body parts are harmed the body produces it's on variant of morphine. So it is in no way a quality of acupuncture, but rather just the way our bodies work.

And if you think that the fact that insurance companies pay for it is an argument for the effectiveness of acupuncture, you should consider the fact that the NHS just stopped doing this exact thing in the UK. Because it doesn't work.

That's why the American College of Physicians recommends acupuncture for back pain?

That's why Stanford Medical, one of the leading research facilities and healthcare providers in the USA has acupuncturists in their integrative clinic?

I will quit my bs, when acupuncture stops integrating into widespread medical treatment regimens and major institutions around the world stop investing time, resources, and man-power into it.

 

[Corrado]

<irrelevance>

Can y'all take this to a JAMA board or DMs? There's enough on-topic drama with the subject at hand without interjecting off-topic drivel.

 

[tonyOb]

Can y'all take this to a JAMA board or DMs? There's enough on-topic drama with the subject at hand without interjecting off-topic drivel.

Thank you!

 

[xwass]

I started a thread on a slightly different topic (adding an enzyme like CF to a "normal" beer rather than treating the entire batch during fermentation) and wanted to post some related info here:

I contacted White Labs. They responded said the main reason that Clarity Ferm is added during active fermentation is that the turbulence helps keep the enzyme in suspension better. In a fermented beer it would tend to sink to the bottom and not be as effective in interacting with the proteins. It appears that Brewer's Clarex (originally a DSM Product) is only sold under White Labs brand, so maybe they have an exclusive agreement on these products. White Labs also said that they have hopes to develop a product that can be added post fermentation, but do not have one yet.

I think a product such as this would be a huge improvement for consumers as breweries could brew normal batches and add the enzyme at packaging to break down the gluten.

• brew with normal processes, and add the enzyme to a certain amount of kegs/bottles/cans for sale.
• since the enzyme would be added at the last stage of production the possibilities for gluten cross-contamination (and the efforts breweries have to take to prevent this) would be less likely.
• the amount of "gluten reduced" beer could be exactly controlled. The cost could be reduced as the enzyme would be used on the amount they wished to have less gluten and not the whole batch being fermented.
• this could possibly be done by the consumer themselves if necessary (buy a keg/growler add recommended dose of enzyme).

For homebrewers making it is not a big deal to add a vial of Clarity Ferm during fermentation. Doing this at a larger scale requires a lot more commitment, resources, time and costs which is why I think we have seen less beers using this "treatment". They also have liability issues to worry about depending on how the product is marketed.

Based on the information I have found when AN PEP (the enzyme in Clarity Ferm) is used in the proper and conditions ratio it can break down a large % gluten very rapidly (<10 minutes). The pH of beer seems to be in the acceptable range for sure for this enzyme. I have not seen information regarding the optimal temperature range, but appears to handle a range of temperatures that one would store beer at. White Labs has no disclaimer about CF not working in lager beer so that is a good sign as well.

I have come up with an experiment to test this on a commercially available beer at small scale (per bottle) and get some basic gluten tests to determine effectiveness. I think the biggest challenge will be getting accurate measurements as I would prefer not to spend too much $$ on testing equipment or labs. I know White Labs does testing so that could be an option if I can't do it myself. When I get around to this will post my results if anything can be determined from it.

 

[JPHussey]

I started a thread on a slightly different topic (adding an enzyme like CF to a "normal" beer rather than treating the entire batch during fermentation) and wanted to post some related info here:

I contacted White Labs. They responded said the main reason that Clarity Ferm is added during active fermentation is that the turbulence helps keep the enzyme in suspension better. In a fermented beer it would tend to sink to the bottom and not be as effective in interacting with the proteins. It appears that Brewer's Clarex (originally a DSM Product) is only sold under White Labs brand, so maybe they have an exclusive agreement on these products. White Labs also said that they have hopes to develop a product that can be added post fermentation, but do not have one yet.

I think a product such as this would be a huge improvement for consumers as breweries could brew normal batches and add the enzyme at packaging to break down the gluten.

• brew with normal processes, and add the enzyme to a certain amount of kegs/bottles/cans for sale.
• since the enzyme would be added at the last stage of production the possibilities for gluten cross-contamination (and the efforts breweries have to take to prevent this) would be less likely.
• the amount of "gluten reduced" beer could be exactly controlled. The cost could be reduced as the enzyme would be used on the amount they wished to have less gluten and not the whole batch being fermented.
• this could possibly be done by the consumer themselves if necessary (buy a keg/growler add recommended dose of enzyme).

For homebrewers making it is not a big deal to add a vial of Clarity Ferm during fermentation. Doing this at a larger scale requires a lot more commitment, resources, time and costs which is why I think we have seen less beers using this "treatment". They also have liability issues to worry about depending on how the product is marketed.

Based on the information I have found when AN PEP (the enzyme in Clarity Ferm) is used in the proper and conditions ratio it can break down a large % gluten very rapidly (<10 minutes). The pH of beer seems to be in the acceptable range for sure for this enzyme. I have not seen information regarding the optimal temperature range, but appears to handle a range of temperatures that one would store beer at. White Labs has no disclaimer about CF not working in lager beer so that is a good sign as well.

I have come up with an experiment to test this on a commercially available beer at small scale (per bottle) and get some basic gluten tests to determine effectiveness. I think the biggest challenge will be getting accurate measurements as I would prefer not to spend too much $$ on testing equipment or labs. I know White Labs does testing so that could be an option if I can't do it myself. When I get around to this will post my results if anything can be determined from it.

Came here for this answer as I just decided to travel for Thanksgiving to a family member's house with two celiac cousins living there. I wanted to grab some CF and add it to my already-fermenting Xmas ale, but I think I'll pass after reading this post; thanks for the information!

 

[noiz2]

using this as directed will get just about any beer (wheat beer or any super high gluten beer probably not) into the range that IF it were food it could be labeled "gluten free".

Beer for some reason is held to a stricter standard than food.

That said I would not give this to someone for whom gluten is a life and death issue.

 

[brews2gf]

It's worth noting the calculator for clarity ferm (CF) on the DSM website. In particular, 5 gallon batches with 20% or greater wheat component should use a double helping of CF, that is, 2 vials.

Just did it on a dunkel weizenbock extract from Brewer's Best but I won't know how it turns out until X-mas 2017.

 

[Daniel_veal]

This was something I was searching for... thanks for sharing..

 

[brews2gf]

An unfortunate update:
After having a couple CF treated wheat-based beers daily for consistent “research” I ended up having an unexpected gluten reaction called laropharyngeal reflux that caused a very painful throat issue. Ear nose throat specialist exam said it was reflux and between that Dr. and my GI doc, the cause is basically the wheat beers even w 2 vials of CF in a 5 gal batch. After not having any for 2 months I’m in great shape, and I’ve even been drinking my non-wheat CF beers just to control only for wheat.

The paraphrased science behind it is apparently the concentration of gluten in American wheat (which is apparently different and more Monsanto-fied than the European counterpart) is like 10x of that in barley. Take these numbers w caution because I’m not citing directly. Wheat is just going to be an unconquerable albatross for Celiacs I’m afraid.

For those interested in this “living lab” experiment I have going w Celiac and clarity ferm in homebrew, I’m actually having a 5 yr checkup endoscopy in a month or so which is basically an exam of the celia (sp?) in my small intestine to evaluate damage. I can report back about whether there appears to be a continued issue by still drinking CF homebrew w/out wheat or if things appear to be ok. I’m just one sample in the spectrum of people w Celiac, but at least it will be a pseudo-clinical sample.

 

[celiacguy]

Have you had your blood work done ahead of the five year endoscope? Do you know if you are positive on any of the tests?

 

[skleice]

An unfortunate update:
After having a couple CF treated wheat-based beers daily for consistent “research” I ended up having an unexpected gluten reaction called laropharyngeal reflux that caused a very painful throat issue. Ear nose throat specialist exam said it was reflux and between that Dr. and my GI doc, the cause is basically the wheat beers even w 2 vials of CF in a 5 gal batch. After not having any for 2 months I’m in great shape, and I’ve even been drinking my non-wheat CF beers just to control only for wheat.

The paraphrased science behind it is apparently the concentration of gluten in American wheat (which is apparently different and more Monsanto-fied than the European counterpart) is like 10x of that in barley. Take these numbers w caution because I’m not citing directly. Wheat is just going to be an unconquerable albatross for Celiacs I’m afraid.

For those interested in this “living lab” experiment I have going w Celiac and clarity ferm in homebrew, I’m actually having a 5 yr checkup endoscopy in a month or so which is basically an exam of the celia (sp?) in my small intestine to evaluate damage. I can report back about whether there appears to be a continued issue by still drinking CF homebrew w/out wheat or if things appear to be ok. I’m just one sample in the spectrum of people w Celiac, but at least it will be a pseudo-clinical sample.

I would definitely be curious to see your results after the extended time.

I don't get GI symptoms, so I can't tell when I get glutened and can only go by bloodwork or endoscopy (which ive had). Thus, I've been too nervous to experiment with clarity ferm.

 

[brews2gf]

Have you had your blood work done ahead of the five year endoscope? Do you know if you are positive on any of the tests?

I had blood work done for my initial diagnosis and was positive. I can dig up my report if you’re curious about the exact tests because there are a few. They will probably do these tests again before my 5 yr endoscopy (which I need to schedule)

 

[brews2gf]

I had blood work done for my initial diagnosis and was positive. I can dig up my report if you’re curious about the exact tests because there are a few. They will probably do these tests again before my 5 yr endoscopy (which I need to schedule)

More bad news: even wheat-free (i.e. only barley and adjuncts) CF beers are giving me problems. I’ve scheduled my follow-up endoscopy for May 18 and will share results if interested. I also found this video which describes the research behind why Clarity Ferm may categorically not work for Celiacs and examines a more meaningful testing approach for detecting compounds which trigger an autoimmune response in Celiacs.

Basically before I went with the notion that if I can’t feel something then I’m fine. Turns out that was kinda blunt-skulled.