Cigar City maduro oatmeal brown clone attempt

[Raoul_Duke_PhD]

And if you want it dryer, try mashing at a lower temperature.

 

[uncleleon]

I've heard the brown malt can give the sensation of dryness

 

[m00ps]

I've heard the brown malt can give the sensation of dryness

Brown malt is a relatively highly kilned specialty malt. It will usually impart a roasty full bodiedness but not dryness. Not as much as chocolate malt will. It also has a nice nutty character

 

[Annunciation_Dan]

My thing is that it was not an issue of perceived dryness as much as the London ESB yeast suggested by the Cigar City person (supposedly) just doesn't get enough attenuation to hit the ABV target given the stated starting gravity

 

[jakeasaur]

I will be brewing this soon. Will report back with results

 

[TheOrlandoGuy]

I will be brewing this soon. Will report back with results

How'd it turn out? I will be trying this one as my next batch.

 

[TheOrlandoGuy]

I messaged them on Facebook and they were kind enough to send me a response.

Here it is:

63% Maris Otter - 2 row
13% Crystal 60L
3% Briess 6-row Chocolate
5.5% Brown Malt
7% Victory
8.5% Rolled Oats

They use Wyeast 1968 (London ESB - Fullers). They didn't send me the hops or hop schedule but one can assume its most likely noble hops. So, I am doing a 1 oz addition of East Kent Goldings at 60 and 1 0z of Fuggles at 10; that comes pretty close to the 25 IBUs they say it has. Cheers!

How about yours? How did it end up?

 

[jakeasaur]

Bottled mine Sunday. Best smelling non hoppy beer I have made. Actually really excited about it. I'll report back in 2ish weeks

 

[jakeasaur]

For whats its worth I used wyeast 1217 west cost ipa yeast

 

[TheOrlandoGuy]

That's interesting.....any reason for that use of yeast?

 

[jakeasaur]

Its what I had on hand. Its becoming my house yeast

 

[HK823]

Any updates from people who's brewed this up?
I've stocked the ingredients, but won't be able to brew before March - can't wait!

 

[jakeasaur]

Tasted my first one yesterday after work. I think it will be a staple in my rotation.

 

[gishua]

Tasted my first one yesterday after work. I think it will be a staple in my rotation.

That's great. Does it taste like a maduro?

Would anyone know how to convert this to a extract or a little less grains for a partial mash?

Thanks can't wait to try it.

 

[gishua]

That's great. Does it taste like a maduro?

Would anyone know how to convert this to a extract or a little less grains for a partial mash?

Thanks can't wait to try it.

 

[dschoemaker]

Making this next

Dave

 

[jakeasaur]

While I haven't had maduro in a couple of months. I think this is close. If not its a damn tasty brown ale any way

 

[TheOrlandoGuy]

Any updates from people who's brewed this up?
I've stocked the ingredients, but won't be able to brew before March - can't wait!

I brewed this on Saturday, Feb 7th. I am a partial mash brewer, so I converted the recipe to extract + grain. Here's what I did:

5.5 lb Pale LME

Mashed the following for 1 hour at 154 degrees:
18 oz Caramel 60L
4 oz Pale Chocolate Malt
8 oz Brown Malt
10 oz. Victory Malt
12 oz. Flaked Oats

Wyeast 1335 British Ale II

1 oz East Kent Goldings @ 60 minutes
1 oz Willamette @ 20 minutes

I plugged this in to a recipe calculator, and got an exact stats for Maduro Brown!

I recently took a tour at Cigar City, and asked Bob (tour guide) which strand of yeast they use for Maduro. He said WYeast 1335, and that they ferment it at 60 degrees. My swamp water technique will only get me down to about 65 degree (I live in Florida), but I don't expect there to be many differences at all in the yeasts' performance - given that I am still within ale temps. So, it's bubbling away at 65-69 degrees right now.

I will reply with a picture side-by-side with Maduro and mine. Worst case scenario - if it doesn't taste like Maduro, I'm just left with a great Brown ale!

Fingers crossed....

 

[gishua]

Hey orlando guy nice post. I brewed this yesterday in a similar fashion but instead of 5.5 dme I did 6 lb of Marris otter lme. I used Wyeast 1968 London ESB from the previous post. Wonder how the yeast strains will change the flavor between these 2 recipes.

My only comment thus far is that the color was lighter than a maduro. Wort tasted pretty darn good tho.

I'm fermenting at 68 right now.

Will report back on how it comes out.

 

[TheOrlandoGuy]

Side by side with maduro on the left, and my recipe on the right. It came out great! Obviously color isn't as dark as maduro, and not as clear, but I personally love a hazier beer.

Taste notes:

Mine: light, creamy mouthfeel. Finished with a sweet caramel - nut flavor. Very slightly roasty.

Maduro: higher carbonation, a drier, thiner bodied mouthfeel. The nuttiness comes out more prevelantly, and finishes with a more assertive roasty aftertaste (mmmmmm yum).

My conclusion would be to mash at a lower temperature to thin out the body a bit more...I accidentally mashed too high and hence the sweeter finish. There seems to be darker malts used...obviously, so maybe more chocolate malt?

Still, a great brown ale recipe!

View attachment 1425685534241.jpg

 

[HK823]

@TheOrlandoGuy, soo.. I'm brewing this in 7-10 days if I'm lucky. Bump up the brown to 10oz to accentuate the roastyness but adding more choc would make it even sweeter no? What temp schedule did you mash?

 

[planetscott]

@TheOrlandoGuy, soo.. I'm brewing this in 7-10 days if I'm lucky. Bump up the brown to 10oz to accentuate the roastyness but adding more choc would make it even sweeter no? What temp schedule did you mash?

The chocolate malt will make it roastier. If you want sweet, add some honey malt or a touch of lactose. Be careful of adding too much chocolate. It will give it a burnt toast flavor.

 

[TheOrlandoGuy]

I agree with @planetscott. My experience with chocolate malt is that it will definitely give it more of a roastier flavor. The brown malt in this grain bill is actually lending more color than anything, and a great nuttiness/toffee flavor. If you want sweeter, mash higher like I did (by accident). I also don't see anything wrong with more chocolate and brown malts. I'll end up doing that for my next batch if I want to get it closer to maduro.

As a stand alone recipe though, it makes a fantastic brown ale.

 

[HK823]

Thanks for the pointers guys. Will let you know how it turns out

 

[TheOrlandoGuy]

Thanks for the pointers guys. Will let you know how it turns out

Happy brewing then!

Sorry I realized I didn't answer your initial question about mashing temps. I shot for 154 for 1 hour, but I was trying a new method of mini mashing...I started at 154, and it got up to 159 for at least a half an hour of the mash. :smack: I managed to slowly get it back down again, and it finished at 154 at the hour mark. Again, it was a mistake on my part, but it gave me a great reference point of dry/sweet characteristics that you could achieve from playing with mash temps - lesson learned! Haha, but either way, if you actually are going for that sweetness I seem to have created in my batch (without adding lactose), I'd mash high, probably 155-157. However, this will leave you with less fermentables..and a lower potential of alcohol in your beer.

Hope that helps, and let us know how it turns out!

 

[gishua]

Hey OrlandoGuy thanks for the posts and pics. I had about the same results as you with color & taste with your recipe. Hazier, Lighter & Sweeter.

What do you think about the below to get closer to Maduro? Was going to try to brew this week. I would like to figure this out HA HA! Same as you. Enjoying the beer recipe you gave tho! Thanks!

5.5 lb Pale LME
MASH @ 154

12 oz Caramel 60L (went down 6oz)
12 oz Pale Chocolate Malt ( tripled chocolate )
16 oz Brown Malt ( doubled brown )
10 oz. Victory Malt (same)
16 oz. Flaked Oats (upped a little)

Same Yeast & Hop Schedule

Thanks again and will report back with results if you think this is a good recipe to try out or did I up the ingredients too much?

5.5 lb Pale LME
Mashed the following for 1 hour at 154 degrees:
18 oz Caramel 60L
4 oz Pale Chocolate Malt
8 oz Brown Malt
10 oz. Victory Malt
12 oz. Flaked Oats

Wyeast 1335 British Ale II

1 oz East Kent Goldings @ 60 minutes
1 oz Willamette @ 20 minutes

 

[TheOrlandoGuy]

Thanks gishua! Definitely a good call on the chocolate malt increase. I'd say why not kick that crystal malt up to 80L? Should impart more a burnt/toasty flavor than the 60L...

As for the rest, I'd actually be curious to see how doubling the brown would affect that nuttiness. Hopefully its not too much with the increase in chocolate malt. Remember, brown malts dont have as much potential sugars to contribute to the mash compared to the rest of the grains on that bill. Idk if adding anymore oatmeal would change much of the mouthfeel though, but it's worth a try!

Please post some pics when you're done! I think it will be closer to maduro for sure.

 

[gishua]

Ok cool! I'll get ingredients this week and try to show color going into fermenter and then thereafter follow up pics. I rounded all but 1 to 12 oz for an in between recipe ha ha, maybe everything at 12 will result in a close clone. Fingers crossed. Thanks again!

5.5 lb Pale LME
MASH @ 154

12 oz Caramel 80L
12 oz Pale Chocolate Malt
12 oz Brown Malt
10 oz. Victory Malt
12 oz. Flaked Oats

Wyeast 1335 British Ale II

1 oz East Kent Goldings @ 60 minutes
1 oz Willamette @ 20 minutes

 

[HK823]

Nice! Depending on the stalled brown ale that is currently cold crashing I might also start up a half batch tomorrow.

P.S. Likely going to dump the stalled one. Too sweat and only a gallon.

 

[HK823]

Could anyone share the beersmith recipe?
I can't get anywhere close to the desired - color, IBU, nor ABV.
(Could me that my Beersmith is messed up - not the first time that happens)

EDIT: nevermind - BeerSmith cocked up. Going back to Brewer's Friend