Cigar City Jai Alai Clone

[jakeasaur]

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[jakeasaur]

Brewed a version of this about 8 weeks a go in preparation for my brother comming home this weekend. He moved to Tampa from Cincinnati last year. He will be bringing a case of the real deal with him. Ill let you know what the consciences is this up coming weekend. Or a may sneek a taste tonight.

 

[ja09]

Subscribed. I love jai alai, especially in b the Florida heat. Very interested in your side by side tasting notes. This will be a good one for me when it's not -20 outside!

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[BassBeer]

I'm thinking of giving this a shot on Wednesday, as Jai Alai has become my new favorite IPA. I'll be using us-05 instead of wyeast since I have some in the fridge. Also planning on adding my flavor additions at 5 minutes, then doing a 45 minute hopstand @ ~175F with 1oz each of cascade, ahtanum, and amarillo. I'll be sure to post results.

 

[Rdom]

Just pitched my yeast on this bad boy. The one change I made - listening to the brewing network interview, Wayne said he calculates his aroma additions at 6 minutes - not necessarily adds them at 6 minutes. So I added them at knockout instead. I steeped them hot for 20 minutes, because he's obviously trying to get some IBU's out of them by using the 6 minute calc.

Then I cooled to 150 degrees, and I also added 0.5 oz of Antanium (Sp?) and 0.3 centennial, to use up some leftovers. I steeped those for another 20 minutes at 150 - 120, then cooled to 70 and pitched. Temp controller set to 66.

The one Jai Alai I've had, I was blown away by. Somehow my buddy here in Denver got a 6'er. Still not sure how he got it. Hopefully mine turns out close!

tgmartin, how did this turn out for you? Similar to the real thing?
Anyone else who's made it have any updates?

 

[tgmartin000]

tgmartin, how did this turn out for you? Similar to the real thing?
Anyone else who's made it have any updates?

It was damn near identical. I couldn't get canadian 2-row, so my grain bill was a tad different, which you could taste very slightly, but otherwise they were spot on.

 

[Rdom]

It was damn near identical. I couldn't get canadian 2-row, so my grain bill was a tad different, which you could taste very slightly, but otherwise they were spot on.

Thanks. I am putting it on my list of upcoming brews. It's one of my favorites.

 

[BassBeer]

It was damn near identical. I couldn't get canadian 2-row, so my grain bill was a tad different, which you could taste very slightly, but otherwise they were spot on.

Which yeast did you use?

 

[tgmartin000]

Which yeast did you use?

Whichever one is called for in the recipe - I believe it was thames valley?

 

[BassBeer]

Whichever one is called for in the recipe - I believe it was thames valley?

There were 2 mentioned, 1275 and 1968.

 

[tgmartin000]

there were 2 mentioned, 1275 and 1968.

1275

 

[jakeasaur]

Here is my version. missed my numbers a bit as Im stilling dialing in my system. Did not have Canadian 2row to I substituted some MO. also My LHBS only had 3 oz of ahtanum so i substituted in some cascade for the bittering addition.

I will be doing side by side tastings with the real deal tomorrow night.

10 gal Batch
1/2 with wyeast 1968
1/2 with wyeast 1217
Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
21 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 66.4 %
7 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 2 23.7 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 3 4.7 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 4 4.7 %
2.0 oz Victory Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 5 0.4 %
1.00 oz Ahtanum [4.60 %] - First Wort 20.0 min Hop 6 4.7 IBUs
1.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [13.90 %] - First Wort 20.0 min Hop 7 14.1 IBUs
1.00 oz Ahtanum [4.70 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 8 7.1 IBUs
1.00 oz Amarillo [10.10 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 9 15.3 IBUs
0.50 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [13.90 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 10 10.5 IBUs
0.50 oz Cascade [6.20 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 11 4.7 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade [7.30 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 12 5.5 IBUs
1.00 oz Centennial [8.70 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 13 6.6 IBUs
0.50 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [13.90 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 14 5.2 IBUs
2.50 oz Cascade [6.20 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 15 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Ahtanum [4.60 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 16 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Amarillo [8.70 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 17 0.0 IBUs

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.075 SG Measured Original Gravity: 1.067 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.014 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.018 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 8.1 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 6.5 %
Bitterness: 84.3 IBUs Calories: 228.2 kcal/12oz
Est Color: 9.9 SRM

 

[jakeasaur]

I dry hopped each 5 gallons with 2 oz simcoe

 

[jakeasaur]

The real deal is on the left. 1968 in the middle. 1217 on the right. Hit this one out of the park. In a blind taste no one could tell the difference between the real deal and the clone made with 1968. However most people my self included preferred the one made with 1217. Most people at the party had never tasted jai alai and thought the clone with 1217 was the "commercial" beer. Thanks to all have posted in this thread

 

[fireslayer]

Might have to give this recipe a try it sounds great.

 

[bulldogbrewhaus]

I am really glad people are brewing this since I haven't actually done it myself haha. @jakeasaur CCB uses 1968 as their house ale yeast these days to the best of my knowledge. They used to use the Thames Valley but thats out dated. I'm sure that the 1217 is nice though, I actually have a pack myself but I have committed that to doing an Alpine-Duet clone (another personal favorite). CCB has finally started distributing to VA a little bit so I should be able to do a side by side whenever I actually get around to doing this. Thank you everyone for your contributions to this thread. Cheers.

 

[ClarkBroham]

Wow thanks Jakeasaur. Good job with that taste test and all. I love Jai Alai and am definitely going to do this.

Has anyone thought about aging this to emulate their humidor series (aged on "spanish cedar" )or White Oak Aged Jai Alai?

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[joelrapp]

Do you have alpha acid contents of these? What is the mash schedule? Batch size....there's a lot missing here.

Greetings fellow brewers, I have been working on a recipe for something similar to Cigar City-Jai Alai. Please be critical and help me get it close to the real thing. Cheers.

Jai Alai stats per CCB website: ABV:7.5% IBU:70 OG:18 SRM:10

Grain Bill
2 Row-10lbs 12oz
Munich-1lb
Victory-1lb
20l-1lb

Hop Schedule (This is straight from Wayne Wambles via email from another thread)
FWH
Ahtanum-.5oz
Columbus-.5oz

Bittering
Ahtanum-.5oz
Amarillo-.5oz
Columbus-.5oz

Flavor
Cascade-1.25
Centennial-1.25
Columbus-1.25

Aroma
Ahtanum-1oz
Amarillo-1oz
Cascade-1oz

Dry
Simcoe-2oz

Yeast
Dennys Fav 50 or Cali Ale (not too sure about the yeast)


Stats per old hopville software: ABV:7.5% IBU:72.5 SRM:10

Notes: I used the 15 minute mark for the "flavor" hop additions, I used flame out for the "aroma" hop additions. The specialty malts are just my guess based on the taste I get from it. I pretty much always use a whirfloc tablet so I left that out.

Here is a link to the other thread. Perhaps one of the mods could merge them for me as I feel it belongs in the Recipes forum.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f5/cigar-city-jai-alai-281892/

 

[Rdom]

See post #9.

 

[BassBeer]

Just put my recipe together in iBrewMaster, trying to stay as close to the original as possible based on percentages and IBUs. Not exact but should be pretty damn close. Here's what I came up with:

Jai Alai #1

Style: American IPA. OG: 1.076
Type: All Grain FG: 1.019
ABV: 7.47 %
Calories: 248 IBU's: 71.18
Efficiency: 72 %. Boil Size: 7.00 Gal
Color: 11.7 SRM Batch Size: 5.50 Gal
Preboil OG: 1.065. Boil Time: 60 minutes

Fermentation Steps
NameDays / Temp
Primary14 days @ 64.0°F
Bottle/Keg7 days @ 66.0°F
Bottle/Keg7 days @ 36.0°F

Grains & Adjuncts
Amount Percentage Name

15.50 lbs 90.18 % Briess 2-Row Pale Ale Malt

12.50 ozs 4.55 %Munich Malt

12.50 ozs 4.55 %Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L

2.00 ozs 0.73 %Victory Malt60 mins1.034

Hops
Amount IBU's Name Time AA %

0.50 ozs 13.34 Columbus (Tomahawk) First Wort14.60
0.50 ozs 4.20 Ahtanum First Wort 4.60
0.50 ozs 14.12 Amarillo Gold 60 mins10.30
0.25 ozs 10.01Columbus (Tomahawk) 60 mins14.60
0.25 ozs 3.46 Ahtanum 60 mins 4.60
0.75 ozs 5.99 Columbus (Tomahawk) 5 mins14.60
0.75 ozs 4.10 Centennial 5 mins10.00
1.00 ozs 3.06 Cascade 5 mins 5.60
1.00 ozs 6.63 Amarillo Gold 6 mins10.30
1.00 ozs 2.96 Ahtanum 6 mins 4.60
1.00 ozs 3.61 Cascade 6 mins 5.60
2.00 ozs Simcoe 10 days 13.00

Yeasts
AmountNameLaboratory / ID
1.00 pkgLondon ESB AleWyeast Labs 1968

Additions
AmountNameTimeStage
1.00 oz Whirlfloc Tablet 15 mins Boil

Mash Profile
Light Body Infusion60 min @ 150.0°F
Add 21.48 qt ( 1.25 qt/lb ) water @ 167.6°F
Sparge
Sparge 17.45 qt ( 0.00 qt/lb ) of 190.0°F water over 10 mins

Carbonation
AmountTypeBeer TempCO2 Vols
4.9 psiForce Carbonation38.0°F1.90

Notes

www.iBrewMaster.comVersion: 2.836

 

[TheJasonT]

Some new info from Wayne this week, he says that they are now using CO2 Hop Extract for the bittering addition. He says it helps a lot with shelf stability.

 

[BreezyBrew]

Some new info from Wayne this week, he says that they are now using CO2 Hop Extract for the bittering addition. He says it helps a lot with shelf stability.

You can definitely tell this. I live in Tampa and non craft beer places will sell Jai Alai. These places don't get a lot of turn over on their keg, but the beer still tastes fresh.

 

[BassBeer]

Just pitched yeast on this bad boy. Did a 30 minute hopstand at flameout and another addition of Cascade, Amarillo, and Ahtanum at 160 degrees for 30 minutes. Hit all my numbers dead on and overall had one of my smoothest brew days yet. Feels great when everything "works"! I'll let you all know how it turns out in a couple of weeks.

 

[belgariontheking]

I'll be brewing this recipe this weekend. Using Jake's recipe (cuz it has tasting notes) with Bass's additional info like mash temp and dry hopping length.

I've heard that doing dry hopping for too long can make it "vegetal." What would be the major difference between 10 days dry hopping and 4 days?

Would you recommend Spanish Moss or Whirlfloc for clarifying?

I live in Cincinnati but my brother lives in Tampa and I want to take some Jai Alai clone brew down to him when I visit him in the spring. I am pretty excited about trying this.

 

[ReformedBrewer]

What does it mean to calculate for aroma at 6 minutes? Does that mean I take a gravity reading at 6 minutes and determine how much addition will affect my IBU? Can someone explain?


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[BreezyBrew]

You add the hop edition into the software as if you are adding it in at 6 minutes. I'd assume this is an addition that you are adding at flameout and letting it sit for x amount of time. Because the wort is still hot, bitterness will still be extracted. Hops added at 0 minutes will add some bitterness, so it's a technique to try and predict the actual number of IBU's. If you added a flame out edition and let it sit for 15 minutes it will add bitterness even though the brewing software sometimes calculates it as 0 IBU.

 

[belgariontheking]

Thanks Breezy!

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[baulz]

I am planning to brew this weekend based on bulldog's recipe in post #8, but never evening thought about yeast. All I have is S-05, and have no local option for wyeast/white labs products. Should I put this off a week until I can get some? Might be able to get a packet of S-04 if that would get be closer.

 

[mwdoher]

Grain Bill
Canadian 2-row-15.25
Munich I-12.5oz
60L-12.5oz
Victory-.25oz

Forgive me. Can someone help me through something in this grain bill? I haven't brewed in a couple years, and my memory suggested that I check with the source when it's ambiguous on this end.

1. Munich I refers to a light (8-11L) 2-row grain, and NOT CaraMunich I, correct?
2. "60L" refers to color. I "get" that, but I want to be right that we're talking about a Cara. I know there's enough confusion on this subject anyway; thanks in advance for any help you can offer!

OHHHH
One other thing. The LHBS didn't have the 1968, but they did have the 1275. After really looking at the numbers on the two, I picked up a 1332 (linked below) - for the simple reasoning behind flocculation and everything else registering as pretty similar. I'll let you know how it turns out. I've got a couple green cans in the fridge from my recent trip to Tampa.

http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_yeaststrain_detail.cfm?ID=139

 

[bulldogbrewhaus]

Forgive me. Can someone help me through something in this grain bill? I haven't brewed in a couple years, and my memory suggested that I check with the source when it's ambiguous on this end.

1. Munich I refers to a light (8-11L) 2-row grain, and NOT CaraMunich I, correct?
2. "60L" refers to color. I "get" that, but I want to be right that we're talking about a Cara. I know there's enough confusion on this subject anyway; thanks in advance for any help you can offer!

OHHHH
One other thing. The LHBS didn't have the 1968, but they did have the 1275. After really looking at the numbers on the two, I picked up a 1332 (linked below) - for the simple reasoning behind flocculation and everything else registering as pretty similar. I'll let you know how it turns out. I've got a couple green cans in the fridge from my recent trip to Tampa.

http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_yeaststrain_detail.cfm?ID=139

1.Yes you want the Munich in the ~10L range.
2.60L is also referred to as Crystal/Caramel 60. It is basically just a mid level crystal malt.
3. I think the northwest ale will do just fine. If you choose to brew it again you might want to try and get the 1968. Everyone seems to be in agreement that is CCB's house yeast. Many people descibe Jai Alai as juicy and I think some of that may be due to that yeast.

I put this recipe into another software program (finally) and the numbers do vary a little bit. My advice for everyone is to use the raw percentages I provided and do your own calculations. Also if you happen to know how efficient your actual system is it will be different for you. I plan to brew 2 versions of this with a buddy when I return home from overseas. I will post some notes and pictures. Thanks everyone for your contributions to the thread, sorry for not being a better TS. Cheers