Cider sediment and sweetness

[Lazur]

This is my first ever attempt at cider. I bought 5 gallons from a local orchard that they froze from last fall. I have it in a 6.5 gallon carboy and added 5 crushed campden tablets and had been sitting for 36 hours. I noticed about 1 inch of sediment that has fallen to the bottom. Should I rack it to another carboy before pitching the yeast?

Also the cider itself is very sweet coming in at 1.050 with no added sugars. I'm using an English ale yeast that will top out at 8% apv. I know it will ferment the sugars but will it leave any sort of sweetness? I'm really wanting a semi sweet finished product but am a bit nervous to pasteurize it as most of these will go to friends. Should I add more sugar so the yeast will hit the ceiling then not ferment any longer and leave sweet taste, if that will even work?? Lactose is a no go btw.

Thanks!!

 

[bernardsmith]

Hi Lazur - and welcome. I don't have a specific answer to your question but I do have some thoughts that may help you decide.
1. A yeast that the lab says will "top out" at 8% might go one or two percentage points more - and a cider with 50 points of sugar will ferment dry at 6.5% ABV. Bottom line: your yeast will happily remove every last molecule of the simple sugars in the cider.
2. Should you increase the gravity by adding sugar? You might, but while brewers who brew beer might keel over at the thought of anyone adding sugar to the mash these same brewers who make cider don't consider that action to be similar with cider. Wine makers sometimes take a different stance. What kind of sugar are you considering adding? table sugar? table sugar with added molasses (AKA brown sugar)? Molasses? Not sure that if you have quality apples that adding such sugars won't detract from the flavor... But to each their own , as they say.
Of course, you could add honey (say orange blossom honey or even apple blossom honey) and so make a cyser. I would use the juice to dissolve the honey and not water, if you want to up the gravity (and so the potential ABV). One pound of honey for every gallon of juice will increase the gravity by about 35 points (1.035). Alternatively...

You could add some apple concentrate. In fact you could begin with a more concentrated must. Not by cooking the apples but by freezing the juice and then collecting only the first runs - to about 1/3 or 1/2 of the original volume. That way you will have upped the gravity by about 100% (close to 1.090 or higher) - or potentially - about 12% ABV.. But now you are not talking about a cider. This is a wine - and it will take many months to age. Concentrating the juice in this way will concentrate the flavor as well as the sugars - The half that you keep frozen is essentially water. Good luck!

 

[Maylar]

This is my first ever attempt at cider. I bought 5 gallons from a local orchard that they froze from last fall. I have it in a 6.5 gallon carboy and added 5 crushed campden tablets and had been sitting for 36 hours. I noticed about 1 inch of sediment that has fallen to the bottom. Should I rack it to another carboy before pitching the yeast?

Also the cider itself is very sweet coming in at 1.050 with no added sugars. I'm using an English ale yeast that will top out at 8% apv. I know it will ferment the sugars but will it leave any sort of sweetness? I'm really wanting a semi sweet finished product but am a bit nervous to pasteurize it as most of these will go to friends. Should I add more sugar so the yeast will hit the ceiling then not ferment any longer and leave sweet taste, if that will even work?? Lactose is a no go btw.

Thanks!!

The sediment is likely pectin from the apples, you can rack or not it doesn't really matter.

Which ale yeast are you using? Most will do 12% if treated nicely (nutrients and temperature). Adding sugar to push the yeast over it's alcohol tolerance is not recommended with most ale yeasts, they don't always die gracefully. Some will leave nasty flavors that may or may not age out.

Better to let the cider ferment dry and deal with stabilizing and sweetening at bottling time. There are alternatives to lactose.

 

[Lazur]

Ok thanks. I figured It'd go dry. Shooting for a drinking cider that you can stay on all night and not hate yourself on the morning. The ladies that will be mostly drinking it are lightweights. So maybe I'll just add a couple pounds of honey as I was shooting for 7-8% in case it doesn't come up as far with the SG. I figured the layer was pectin and if it dropped in 36 hours it'll hopefully drop out in secondary.

 

[Lazur]

The yeast I will be using is S-04.

 

[madscientist451]

The short answer is don't add anything, pitch the yeast, ferment on the cool side, like lower 60's. And let it age some. Adding extra sugar or honey will not result in a sweet cider, just one with more ABV and possibly some off flavors.
If you want a sweeter cider, you have some options:
-Use frozen apple juice; I add 1 can of frozen juice to two 1.5 ml bottles of cider and it comes out about right. Just put it in the fridge after blending and drink it in a week or two and it won't kick off again.
- Add Splenda or other non-fermentable sweeteners. You can also add some sugar at the same time for bottle conditioning if you want a carbonated cider. Use an on-line priming calculator to figure how much sugar.
--You can back-sweeten, bottle condition then pasteurize. This process is somewhat advanced, so if you are just starting out with cider, I'd skip it.
You may (or may not) find that a good sweet cider doesn't always make a good hard (fermented) cider. The explanation for that is pretty complicated, so I'll just leave it at that. Good Luck !

 

[Drewed]

Don't rack off the sediment, that is full of apply goodness.
If you want to bump up the ABV, add a can per gallon of frozen apple juice concentrate, or more or less. Don't just add sugar. Sugar just bumps of the ABV and that is dumb.
Let it ferment dry and then either stabilize it, if you want still cider, and sweeten. Use more FAJC or I boil down a gallon of cider with a lb of sugar to about 1/2 volume and go with that.
If you want bubbles, then skip the stabilization, monitor the bottle pressure, and "pasteurize" when the correct pressure is reached.

 

[Lazur]

I just added a pound and a half of honey as my neighbor just brought me some from his bees and so I thought it was supposed to be. I'm hoping that I'll like it off the go so I can carb it in the bottle and not worry about the sweetening. The problem I'm facing with the sweetness is the ladies aren't beer fans and only drink Angry Orchard, which is sweet. If it was solely for my drinking I'd leave it dry and carbed.

 

[Maylar]

It has been reported here that S-04 reliably quits at 9.5%, though I dunno what temperature that's at. In my experience it'll stop at about 1.004 at 62°F but go dry to 0.996 at 68F. If you can keep it cool and it quits off-dry you might offer a sample to the ladies before deciding on sweetening.

True Angry Orchard levels of sweetness and carbonation really require a keg to achieve.

 

[Lazur]

Ok thanks. Yeast has been in for 24 hours and no bubbling yet. I know it can start late but I'm nervous now.

 

[Lazur]

Looks like a lot of the yeast is floating back on top of the cider in a perfect circle.

 

[Maylar]

Are you sure that the orchard didn't add any preservatives to the cider?

 

[Lazur]

I called and they said they treat with UV. I know that is another form of pasteurization so am I up a creek on this??

 

[Lazur]

Guy at my homebrew shop said the yeast might be dead? He said he's heard that sometimes S-04 and campden tablets even after sitting won't play well together? He said he'd give me a pack of different yeast to try in it before tossing.

 

[Baabaad00]

Look out who you ask at the orchards. I talked to people who said no preservatives regularly, but when I talked to the actual people who process it, they said they added sorbate. I have to special order with out it.

 

[Maylar]

UV Pasteurization is OK. It's preservatives you gotta worry about. I've never had S-04 fail, and I sulfite only 24 hrs before pitching. Did you rehydrate the yeast and pitch at the right temperature?

 

[Lazur]

I did not rehydrate it. Guy at the shop told me no need to. It's sitting at 68 degrees which I thought was within the threshold.

 

[Maylar]

68 is fine, as long as the yeast was at room temp too. Early in my cider journey I pitched some yeast straight out of the fridge without letting it warm up first... big mistake.

 

[Lazur]

I got a packet of 1116 yeast today. Started it in some warm water and pitched it. I'll give it 2 more days then I'm just gonna dump it if no fermentation by then.