Cider Rookie

[youngbrewmen]

I have had Cider fermenting in a 5 gallon carboy for 2 days now and everything is going smoothly as far as i know. i used a recipe they had at the local cider mill. I just have a question that was not clarified in the recipe.

The Recipe:
5 gallons cider
5 pounds dextrose
1 campden tablet per gallon (5)
1 package red star montrachet dry wine yeast (5 grams)
let it sit 6 weeks to 11 months the longer the better
(I plan on 14 weeks)

My questions are:

when i bottle it after 14 weeks and leave the bottles to age a few weeks will my bottles explode or just lightly carbonate?

What do you think of this recipe?

 

[rjschroed]

I doubt your bottles will even lightly carbonate, there won't be any sugar left to ferment after 14 weeks unless you add some priming sugar. It looks like a pretty basic recipe, lots of sugar, but should turn out good. If it were me I'd let it ferment out which means depending on the temp and yeast could be around 4 weeks, trust your hyrdometer. at that point I'd probably put it in my bottling bucket(if I had one, I keg) with some priming sugar if I wanted to carb it. After bottling its a waiting game, your waiting for it to age and mellow out. Keep in mind if you let it ferment completely out, which at 14 weeks in primary I couldn't imagine any sugar being left, your gonna end up with a dry white wine like product. If a sweet cider is something your going for you could back sweeten at the time of serving or if kegging (read, sweet cider with more apple flavor, slightly less alcohol, no back sweetening, no priming sugar, not bottling right way at least) is something you might want to get into then check out the sticky. Cvillekevin has made thousands of gallons of sweet cider and I can attest to his method and information being tried and true. I would also question what leaving the cider on the yeast cake for that long would/could do to your cider, apfelwein makers can probably give you some more info on that.

 

[youngbrewmen]

how would i get a sweeter less alcoholic cider that is carbonated if i have already started fermentation?

 

[Kauai_Kahuna]

I think the recipe that you got would give you a great dry still cider.
Less alcoholic cider?
At this stage you will either end with a very sweet cider if you stabilize with chemicals or crash chilling, or a high ABV cider that you can back sweeten and make taste great.
Just remember to collect the car keys from guest drinking it if you go with option 2. Thats going to be some kick as. cider if aged for a year or so.

 

[rjschroed]

lol @ kauai kahuna. I can see advantages and disadvantages to doing it both ways. you really should check out the sticky at the top of the forum. it has a lot of great information. The tricky part is you'll have to learn what YOU like. read up the foum, decide which option you might like better, and go from there. you still have several days to make a decision as the to direction your gonna go with your cider.

 

[flyweed]

Yep..this will be a dry, not sweet cider if you let it go 14 weeks or more..you need a hydrometer, so you can test for the S.G. and stop it if you want at say 1.010 or so for a sweeter drink.

Dan

 

[oldtimeydave]

Traditional cider makers generally ferment all the way dry and back sweeten to taste and prime the bottle for carbonation if not force carbonating. Keeping bottles from "popping" is the main issue in making a sweet sparkling cider.

If you are force carbonating after the sweetening Cider makers usually sterile filter and/or package pasteurize... AKA Pasteurize in the bottle. If your bottles are not rated and/or overfilled they have a great chance of breaking or exploding. You also want to keep these bottles at cellar temperatures.

If bottle conditioning prime the bottle fill, but not overfill and after you get the desired level of effervescence go to package pasteurizing, or refrigerate and keep them refrigerated or at cellar temps.

Regardless of how you do it if you ever give any out make sure it is stored cold and not left in the back seat of the car or in a cupboard or something.

 

[flyweed]

I'd consider myself a "traditional" cider maker, and have done it both ways...fermenting all the way dry and then backsweetening, and stopping the ferment early. I also keg, so bottling isn't an issue for me...with that said, I find that fermenting to "dryness" and backsweetening..gives it that "backsweetened" taste....like the sweetness was added later...but when stopping the ferment you don't get that. Maybe it's just my palate, but I can usually tell when a cider has had sweetener added back to it, whether it's applejuice, honey, or sugar.

Dan

 

[wreckinball9]

+1 to flyweed. cold crashing and racking around 1.010 produces a far superior result to backsweetening

 

[oldtimeydave]

Yeah well I think "cold crashing" doesn't allow for enough aging time for real cider. My best guess is that nearly all licensed cider makers who make a quality product ferment to completion. At least the ones I know personally do.

The real way to maintain sweetness without back-sweetening or cold crashing is to use the French method of keeving.

 

[CvilleKevin]

You can cold crash and then age for as long as you want to. I've got ciders I've crashed and aged for a year, and some that are great after a week.

JK Scrumpy and Etienne Dupont are examples of great traditional ciders that are stopped at sgs ranging from 1.020 to 1.025. They both use nitrogen reduction, which is part of what happens with cold crashing.

I know commercial cider makers who ferment to dryness - or pretty close to it. They dont backsweeten. They are basically going for the high end white wine market and that works for them. I've got a few kegs that I've let get dry and crisp like that. My wine drinking friends like them, but they dont get much interest at a party compared to a sweet cider. Personally, I like something that really reminds me a little more of the apple

 

[flyweed]

agreed with cvilleKevin.....just because you stop the ferment early has nothing to do with aging or better product. You can age as long as you'd like. I know a number of small microbrew/craft brews here in Wisconsin that stop their cider early for the sweetness than age in oak barrels..and it's a great product. They don't backsweeten.

Dan

 

[youngbrewmen]

would i be able to siphon off half of my five gallon carboy and cold crash for a sweet cider and still allow the other half of my carboy to continue fermenting?

 

[CvilleKevin]

You could - although with all of that headspace you would run a high risk of oxidation, unless you have two 3 gallon carboys. Better to finish out this batch one way or the other and then do another batch. Next time cut way back on the added sugar and use an ale or wheat yeast if you want some residual apple sugar

 

[flyweed]

...OR, after he splits the batch up...with the extra headspace in the secondary of the one he wants to ferment out, he could just top up again with more cider, and let it ferment out.....really is your choice...but as Cville said, don't leave headspace in your fermenter, as that will oxidize your must.

 

[CvilleKevin]

true - either way, two batches are mo fun than one

 

[direwolf23]

So, really... you could rack off most of a carboy and add back new cider and let it roll? Or, take some of the stuff at the bottom and pitch it into a clean carboy with a new batch of cider and let it ferment out again?

Sorry, my intent isn't to hijack the thread, but it seems like a good place to ask the question.

 

[CvilleKevin]

Yep - there is a limit to how many times you can repitch on the same yeast before the odds of getting an infection goes way up, but splitting a batch one or two times is usually OK. I went four good repitches on a yeast I liked once before the fifth got weird. I expect that by carefully following the yeast washing instructions you could go indefinitely.

 

[flyweed]

dire...yep, just split into two batches and top off with room temp AJ and put the airlock back on..you should be good to go.
Dan