Christianity and home brewing

[solbes]

I see this headed for a lock, and that stinks! I think the premise of the thread is a very interesting topic.

 

[machfive55]

The Bible speaks in many places about wine and beer and nowhere are they referred to as "evil". In fact, fermentation of fruit- and grain-based beverages was the only way to insure long-term preservation of such a precious everyday commodity. By the same token, there are many biblical references to over-consumption of wine and beer leading to sinful behavior.

During a time of my life when I drank beer primarily for "medicinal purposes", I happened to find myself at a bible study one night. We were studying the Book of John and the account of Jesus turning water into wine at the wedding at Cana. Being new to this Jesus-stuff, I thought, "If alcohol is evil, why would Jesus make a huge batch of it for a party?" So, I asked the teacher. He said, "Having a drink is not a sin; drunkenness is." That one answer answered a lot of other questions didn't realize I had...

There are some who believe that any alcohol consumption is a sin and subsequently abstain from letting it touch their lips. And I have no problem with what compels someone to keep a clear conscience. I go by what the apostle Paul says when it comes to our behavior, that in all aspects if it, we need to be "self-controlled". For me, being "self-controlled" in my consumption of an alcoholic beverage makes the most sense and allows me the freedom of enjoying a beer or glass of wine with a clear conscience and without the burden of some dogmatic religious rule.

There are many tea-totalers that think the wine mentioned in the bible was actually just grape juice...or pale in comparisons to today's wine. This is how they skirt the issue of Jesus drinking wine. I think this tends to be more of a minority, but a very vocal minority. The same minority managed to get the drink banned in the US for a few years so its also a powerful minority.

Also, I'd like to point out that some people abstain because they have an addiction problem or have that history in their family...this I can get on board with.

 

[machfive55]

I see this headed for a lock, and that stinks! I think the premise of the thread is a very interesting topic.

Why? Seems very civil so far?

 

[Jacinthebox]

did Jesus drink beer?

of course... HEBREWED it

...

 

[GrogNerd]

it's discussable, just not debateable

that would get the thread moved to the DEBATE forum, which is not accessible to non-premium members, like us

which is what Pappers was warning about upthread

 

[ittybittykittycommittee]

Look at all us Lutherans! Awwww yeah!

I used to attend a church with a minority of parishioners who believed that alcohol is a sin. Not just that, but some believed Jesus sinned when he drank wine, whaaaaaa? It created a bit of a ruckus when the pastor added wine to communion as opposed to decades of just grape juice.

Now the congregation I attend has a few homebrewers (apparently). I even gave the pastor a sixer of homebrew as thanks at one point.

 

[Airplanedoc]

When I started homebrewing (extract), I would have my dad take me down to their church (the one I went to as a kid) so I could use their commercial stove.

 

[Oceantendency]

Doesn't matter if you're Jewish or Christian, the atonement of sin is death, which gluttony is a sin; so as long as you don't belong to a denomination that totally is against drinking and as long your drinking habits don't lead to other sins (Adultry/ too much debauchery/ murder/ thieving/gluttony/ or too much Pride); then you're in no danger. If the Monks are able to be limited to 3 Abbey's a day, in between prayers then hey I'm all good. Funny how I grew up Southern Baptist, yet we weren't the no dancing and Fire/Brimstone kinda Baptists, plus I'm Cajun- got dat under control Cha !

 

[hehawbrew]

I hope it dosnt get locked down. My intention is not to create conflict.

Someone was mentioning a pub group and theology. There is a town around me and a church meets at a pub and calls it, Theology On Tap.

I think homebrewing "demystifies" beer and let's people look at it as a art and a labor of love.

My father the pastor is on the down low about his love of my homebrew to keep the peace with those who rant for it. But- like someone touched on earlier , it does make for a good way for ppl to kindle new friendships, to work as a team, and other such things.


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[hehawbrew]

I come from a different background and it sounds like one of my posts that the OP refers to. I was raised in the prohibitionist part of the Church. I was always taught that alcohol consumption was a sin--no matter what. Alcohol was to be feared and shunned. One drink would destroy your family and send you to hell.

At one point I got tired of regurgitating what others had taught me--and their obvious inconsistencies ("Alcohol is evil; here take this cough syrup" for example). I decided to study for myself what the Bible actually said about it. I came to understand that the Bible and church history are actually quite positive about alcohol and its reasonable consumption. Unfortunately, my ancestors had allowed the Prohibitionist movement to hijack the gospel and refit it for their political agenda. This seldom works out well.

Since I am still in churches where there is a prohibitionist tendency, it can be hard. I doubt the church would ever tolerate a homebrew club, even if the pastor (me) were leading it. I insist on teaching truth about the issue. So when I teach it, I know many disagree with me. I refuse to make it a major issue though. In practice I encourage people to follow Romans 14:22, "Whatsoever you believe about these things, keep it between yourself and God." This does not mean silence though, so I was also active in my denomination removing an old rule of abstinence that had been wrongly enforced against all pastors.

Of course, I think a church homebrew club would be a great outreach and quite effective. However, I also know most Christians have more vested interest in preserving their preconceptions than in actually making a difference in the world. It is sad.

For four years I did housechurch and each week we did the Lord's Supper as a full meal (the NT model) and the meal included wine and beer along with the bread and the rest of the food. It was always a blessed time, which I truly miss.

Yes, one your post in another thread is the reason for this!


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[tootal]

There's a quote that's not from the Bible but sums up my views on a Christian having a beer:
A man's got to know his limitations. Clint Eastwood

At a local beer fest I was talking to a police officer, who seems to always work these events, and asked him if he had any problems. He said he enjoyed working the brewery events because people are here that enjoy trying different styles and appreciate it all. They're not here to just slam as many as they can in four hours! I think that attitude covers most home brewers and nearly all Christians.

 

[b-boy]

I used to attend a church with a minority of parishioners who believed that alcohol is a sin. Not just that, but some believed Jesus sinned when he drank wine, whaaaaaa? It created a bit of a ruckus when the pastor added wine to communion as opposed to decades of just grape juice.

I think a lot of Protestant Churches have started doing this. Mine did it a few years back as well. They also went to a communal goblet from the individual 'dixie cups' they used to pass around. I think it's a little closer to the tradition inhereted from the Catholic church. I like it.

 

[SeeAliceBrewery]

I am a Christian...I consider myself to be dedicated to God and His only Son. The Bible mentions alcohol 224 times....of which only 6 are mentioned in a negative light...where the term drunkeness is directly used. It is not the alcohol that is deemed bad...it is ones actions while comsuming it that is!

 

[soccerdad]

Oh Jeez -

as long your drinking habits don't lead to other sins (Adultry/ too much debauchery/ murder/ thieving/gluttony

There you go taking all the fun out of it I'm gonna quit drinking and brewing if I can't kill somebody now and then !!!

 

[mredge73]

Temperance is a 19th century family health movement popular with women that quickly migrated into the churches.
The idea was to force husbands come home and take care of their family after work instead of spending their time and money in the saloon.
It didn't gain much ground until the 20th century when women's suffrage movement teamed up with temperance organizations to help bolster their ranks worldwide.
This movement gained momentum in the US while the men were away fighting in WW1. Right after the war ended, the US ratified both the 18'th and 19'th amendments in quick succession.

So, organized protestant religions established during this time period would have strong connections to teetotalism. I wouldn't be surprised if it is en-grained in their religious texts and Bible interpretations.
Temperance is defiantly en-grained in modern US culture; drinking is still viewed in a negative connotation post prohibition as it is now age limited and sale restricted.

 

[NickTheGreat]

My parents don't drink very much and we went to church all the time. the Methodist faith was started by some recovering alcoholics, so they don't even use wine for Communion.

But my parents had a party in August and my dad wanted me to bring some homebrew. I kid you not, the Pastor was the first one to sample my kegs. And he was genuinely interested in the entire process too.

Just anecdotal, but I got a kick out of the whole thing

 

[johngaltsmotor]

I'm not 100% sure of the details, but someone mentioned a new local nano/micro that was planning to start up and use the proceeds to help fund their outreach/mission for a Catholic church. They realize that the stodgy traditional approach doesn't suit some people and are looking to make religion applicable to the modern daily life.

IMHO enjoying a tasty beverage is acceptable. If Jesus turned water into wine he must have considered it okay for the wedding party to drink, otherwise he was enabling them to sin and "heap coals" on his own head.

 

[broadbill]

What has been interesting about this thread is the number of pastors who partake but keep it on the "down-low" to keep from offending their more strident parishioners.

I think it goes to show how far we'll go to keep up appearances (even if it is by omission), but at the end of the day we are all just living our lives how we please.

 

[mredge73]

I'm not 100% sure of the details, but someone mentioned a new local nano/micro that was planning to start up and use the proceeds to help fund their outreach/mission for a Catholic church. They realize that the stodgy traditional approach doesn't suit some people and are looking to make religion applicable to the modern daily life.

IMHO enjoying a tasty beverage is acceptable. If Jesus turned water into wine he must have considered it okay for the wedding party to drink, otherwise he was enabling them to sin and "heap coals" on his own head.

I know it isn't exactly the same but at my church the local lions club holds a fair every year on church grounds as a fund raiser that benefits the church and other local charities. The taps flow freely as the night gets darker and the music grows louder. Hundreds of kegs float empty every night as thousands of people enjoy peace and fellowship.

 

[troglodytes]

I think homebrewing "demystifies" beer and let's people look at it as a art and a labor of love.

So true. I can't tell you how many people connected to our group have changed their general stance on beer since we seriously started researching and homebrewing. There are some out there that view beer/liquor in a completely different light than wine. It seems that it stems from the misconception that wine culture is all about the pairings and the quality. It is an easy drink to enjoy socially and for no reason but to enjoy the flavor. Whereas beer on the other hand was viewed as a means to get a buzz on, because "seriously who drinks Natty Ice for the taste."

I feel like the craft brew/homebrew culture has made it apparent to general beer drinkers and non-beer drinkers alike that beer can be every bit as complex, subtle and artisanal as wine and because of this, it's now a more accepted drink in circles where it used to be shunned.

 

[GHBWNY]

In respectful response to someone's post re: alcohol addiction, etc., I grew up in a family of alcoholics my [former] self included, none of whom brewed their own beer.

Whether through addiction, habit, desire, weakness, family tradition, lack of awareness, whatever, too many people through the generations in my family had too many drinks within too short a time. With just as many excuses. And although I admire those in their 12-step recovery programs, my 1-step program worked for me. I have been told I am "still and forever will be" an alcoholic. I don't believe it. If that were true, how could I enjoy a beer now and then and still enjoy a totally sober life?

My wife and I are Christians. She simply doesn't like the taste of alcohol (although when she tasted my Nut Brown Ale this past weekend, she said if she "had" to drink beer, that would be a contender), but knows I enjoy a good beer or glass of wine once in awhile. She bought me my brewing equipment for Christmas, something I probably would not have done on my own. She enjoys watching me enjoy the process, challenges, and delightful results of homebrewing. I believe a Christian can conscientiously enjoy the hobby of homebrewing; it is creative, fun and fulfilling to successfully make something on your own, and something you and others can enjoy responsibly. What being able to manufacture (or consume) an alcoholic beverage boils down to (npi) is self-control. And by that, I mean, if you "need" to drink beer for any reason other than to enjoy it responsibly, you probably will NOT be a homebrewer.

 

[GHBWNY]

Can anyone confirm the rumor that Yuengling (sp?) donates a share of their profits to Christian missions?

 

[zmanzorro]

Look at all us Lutherans! Awwww yeah!

I used to attend a church with a minority of parishioners who believed that alcohol is a sin. Not just that, but some believed Jesus sinned when he drank wine, whaaaaaa? It created a bit of a ruckus when the pastor added wine to communion as opposed to decades of just grape juice.

Now the congregation I attend has a few homebrewers (apparently). I even gave the pastor a sixer of homebrew as thanks at one point.

It must be all that German blood running through here! I grew up in an LCMS Lutheran church, but have family that are ELCA as well. I'm currently at a non-denominational church.

 

[eulipion2]

As the son of a Methodist minister who moved around a lot, I've seen a pretty broad range of opinions on alcohol consumption. The older members of the church spoke against alcohol, while the younger members drank but didn't really talk about it. My parents drank on rare occasion, maybe a beer or wine cooler here and there, but it was never a big thing in our household. Communion was always served with Welch's to avoid excluding anyone from partaking.

John Wesley, the founder of Methodism, was a brewer. You can even find some of his writings on beer if you try hard enough (Google "John Wesley brewer").

My dad's Presbyterian parents never drank. My mom's Catholic parents owned a wine and homebrewing shop.

When I became interested in brewing my grandparents gave me most of the equipment I would need to get started, and my parents didn't seem to mind. Even my dad's mother eventually came around.

The church I attend now offers both juice and wine, of which I usually take the juice. The wine they use does not pair well with the bread at all!

 

[jimyson]

It's absolutely fine in moderation but can also be a potential threat.

“May God give to you

of the dew of the heavens

And of the fertility of the earth

abundance of grain and wine.” (Gn 27:28)

 

[jrgtr42]

I know a Priest who is a card-carrying member of CAMRA in England. It's no secret that he's a beer geek - most of the gifts he is given around Christmas are beer-related.

Me? I'm not Christian - I'm Jewish, and I can say there is very little against alcohol in our set of beliefs - heck, at 8 days old us guys get a swig to dull down the circumcision.
I know one synagogue that at the end of Shabbat services, the guys go up to the front for a drink of whiskey. Another one at the end of Yom Kippur (the day of atonement; we don't eat from sundown to sundown) the temple president has a break-the-fast for the guys out of the truck of his car - coolers of beer, a few bottles wine, whiskey, vodka...
My own synagogue has a mens club where the most popular event is the Scotch tasting.
I think they were trying to set up a trip to a brew-on-premises, but I don't know if that happened.

 

[akillys]

In my opinion Jesus was a homebrewer he turned water into wine. Isn't that essentially what we do?

 

[hehawbrew]

In my opinion Jesus was a homebrewer he turned water into wine. Isn't that essentially what we do?

Lol.

I thinks it's interesting that wine is seen as a more acceptable alcohol than beer. Hmmm.

I've really enjoyed reading all these post.


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[GHBWNY]

I believe the presence and purpose for fermented drink in biblical times was not unlike the reasons it exists today: enjoyment. Even back then, everyone had a favorite drink. It may or may not have been alcohol-based. But in the likely absence of limitless fresh water to drink, or with which to make unfermented drinks, fermenting was (and still is) a necessary means of keeping fruit- and grain- based beverages safe and palatable for long periods of time, e.g., grape juice VS. wine. It was the logical, if not the only, means of preservation in the absence of modern techniques like refrigeration, vacuum-sealing, artificial preservatives, etc.. How cool is it that our Creator designed a substance to be a natural, safe and consumable by-product of the fermentation process that kills harmful bacteria and helps keep the beverage drinkable and enjoyable? Every culture on the globe has at one time or another used fermentation as a means of providing themselves with a palatable beverage.

Alcohol obviously reacts with man's physiology, and generally speaking, the ways in which it is assimilated by the body are beneficial, unless more than a moderate amount is consumed than necessary. While the Bible speaks of [a little] wine being good [for the stomach], it is common knowledge that too much is NOT good, for the stomach OR the head! Setting biblical references to wine and beer consumption aside, common sense would dictate that drinking a fermented beverage in as of itself is not bad or sinful or evil. Drinking too much, though, can certainly lead to behavior resulting in bad, sinful, or evil actions.

Everyone has their own reasons for homebrewing. Hopefully, the majority of us (regardless of religious affiliation) are involved for the simple reason that it is enjoyable. Nothing like opening that very first bottle and taking that first taste and saying, "Wow! That's really good and I made it!". And having others enjoy the 'grains' of our labors as well.

 

[masteraviator]

Look at all us Lutherans! Awwww yeah!

I used to attend a church with a minority of parishioners who believed that alcohol is a sin. Not just that, but some believed Jesus sinned when he drank wine, whaaaaaa? It created a bit of a ruckus when the pastor added wine to communion as opposed to decades of just grape juice.

Now the congregation I attend has a few homebrewers (apparently). I even gave the pastor a sixer of homebrew as thanks at one point.

I too am a Lutheran. Pastor was the first guy I ever saw drinking a beer from outside the US (he liked some German beers). We went on a church youth group trip to St. Louis and we went to the Anheueser Busch plant. We Lutherans are different in more ways than the women of the church basement.