Christianity and home brewing
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Spookgolds
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This sounds about right...
TheFurstyFerret
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Having grown up in a fairly strict church, I was interested to note that the bible placed the negative on the one overindulging and not the wine.
Id made my mind up on the matter when sitting in a Chemistry lecture at uni I heard the professor talk about an enzyme that the liver produces called alcohol dehydrogenase. He stated that its only function was to metabolize alcohol.
That sealed the deal for me - if God created us with that then He mustve designed us to have a little alcohol. Cheers!
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Id made my mind up on the matter when sitting in a Chemistry lecture at uni I heard the professor talk about an enzyme that the liver produces called alcohol dehydrogenase. He stated that its only function was to metabolize alcohol.
That sealed the deal for me - if God created us with that then He mustve designed us to have a little alcohol. Cheers!
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I grew up in a very Catholic family, my parents don't drink but all my siblings do. I remember coming home from college and having to go to church on Sunday morning, typically little hungover and looking around seeing at least 25 other people I saw at the bar just six hours earlier! Hell our priest would go to the bar and have a few beers, he also smoked.
Us Catholics have never had any hang ups about alcohol. I made 10 gallons of homebrew for a friend's wedding rehearsal dinner. The priest gave me a shout out for my homebrew during the wedding sermon the next day.
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The Bible treats drinking alcoholic beverages like eating. Drinking in and of itself isn't displeasing to God. Wanton drunkenness (just like gluttony and other harmful excesses) is, however, something to avoid.
Having been a student of church history, there's no doubt in my mind that everybody (Baptists included) drank beer and wine in the centuries before the 20th when we didn't have a reliable water supply. The wholly negative attitude toward any consumption of alcohol at all seen in some churches today is a mindset that comes primarily out of the temperance movement rather than an honest study of the scriptures. Fortunately, it looks like a generational shift is happening in many of those churches where the younger members are adopting a different view about this.
Their are plenty of guys at our church (a pretty cool contemporary "bible church") who enjoy craft beers, a few like me who brew and one who started up a nano-brewery last year. We often chat about brewing after the service.
Didn't the pilgrims basically survive off hard cider? Wine and other such drinks, like you said, kept us humans alive when fresh water was sparse.
I agree, I think there is a generational shift.
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MindenMan
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Beer is liquid barley, and that is why they say "...Guinness is a meal in a glass..."
GHBWNY
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I once was Baptist but am now Methodist, and the only difference I can see between the two is that Methodists speak to each other in the liquor store.
Agreed.
Another possible difference: How's their cooking? While I've never tried Baptist cooking, I'd gladly put up any Methodist potluck against any other denomination. These people can cook!
MarsingRedneck
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I'm a Lutheran (LCMS) and we don't have a problem with it UNLESS you make it a problem. Everything in moderation.
Very interesting thread. I would be curious to know when certain branches (sects?) of religions started to remove alcohol from themselves. I say 'when' because for a lot of history beer/wine were the safest things (biologically) you could drink. Children would drink beer as well. It wasn't huge strong beer, but the water had been boiled and the beer had enough alcohol in it to prevent dangerous things growing in it. This made it much safer to drink than plain water. I imagine the banning of beer came after methods of obtaining safe drinking water were well established? Once again, interesting thread.
bottomofthebarrel
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I, like, made this flow chart and it proves that since god made man and man made the transformers, that the transformers are like a gift from god!
MarsingRedneck
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and reading the commentaries by Bible scholars will prove you to be right in so far as drunkenness
Moderation is the key.Rhumbline
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I don't know if anyone has pointed it out yet, but Catholics drink during Mass.
My church's main fundraiser is an Octoberfest event complete with beer tent!
My church's main fundraiser is an Octoberfest event complete with beer tent!
ScottG58
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I was raised Episcopalian. St. Andrews had a healthy contingent of Brit members. I still smile when I remember walking into the basement in the 60s during an adult party with the Brits playing darts and tipping a couple of pints.
blake_park
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This is an interesting thread to me. I'm in my mid 20's, an ordained pastor (Youth Pastor) in the Independent Christian Church, and have been homebrewing for about 3 months now. I grew up in a home that was Christian, and always had beer in the fridge or in the garage (It was usually MGD, but this isn't the time or the place for that discussion). Beer was never a taboo (unless you were underage), so it was quite strange for me to get out in the world and find that some people were vehemently against alcohol on the basis of faith.
In my current stage in life, I love the taste of good beer. I'm pretty sure I couldn't continue to afford beer at the craft level, so I'm telling myself this is cheaper. I always feel like I have to be mindful of who is watching me when I buy beer in a package store or in a bar/micro pub, just because of how our church is connected.
I love this hobby. I think it's awesome. SWMBO even enjoys it when I make beer. Another pastor friend and I just finished some reading about art, and how Christ followers (or religious people, to generalize) should be the best critics, creators, and consumers of the best art in the world as it's a celebration of what God made and how we enjoy it. I feel like homebrewing, and beer in general, is one of the ways that I get to create, consume, and critique art.
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In my current stage in life, I love the taste of good beer. I'm pretty sure I couldn't continue to afford beer at the craft level, so I'm telling myself this is cheaper. I always feel like I have to be mindful of who is watching me when I buy beer in a package store or in a bar/micro pub, just because of how our church is connected.
I love this hobby. I think it's awesome. SWMBO even enjoys it when I make beer. Another pastor friend and I just finished some reading about art, and how Christ followers (or religious people, to generalize) should be the best critics, creators, and consumers of the best art in the world as it's a celebration of what God made and how we enjoy it. I feel like homebrewing, and beer in general, is one of the ways that I get to create, consume, and critique art.
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Calichusetts
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The Pilgrims literally landed in Plymouth because they ran out of liquor. They found plymouth's water a good quality and stayed. This is a fact.
machfive55
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I just saw that there is going to be a local beer fest sponsored by the Lutheran Seminary. No hiding it around here!
When I read your post, I had to sit and think about it for some time.
In Paul's day, with respect to the book of Romans, eating clean or unclean meats was a very controversial issue much like alcohol is today.
He says "I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean."
Paul had no personal issue with unclean meats (meat offered to idols), but he recognized the fact that some people did.
A verse that does come into mind is 1 Corinthians 8:13:
"Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble."
I'm not going to stop drinking at a pub with my friends or at my home, but I'll refrain from bringing it if I have someone over where it may offend.
Paul didn't set up a "unclean meats group swap shop" in the church even though he knew there was no issue with it. He knew it was controversial and was more concerned about his fellow brothers and potential stumbling blocks.
Totally understand the fellowship aspect of the group, but I don't see why it has to be a church group. If your dad is looking to set up a homebrew group with you with christian friends, why not have it as that? A homebrew group, not a church homebrew group.
I think part of it is another form of "alternative worship," to appeal to a different swath of people, or to broaden the scope of community outreach. Not everyone likes the "sit in the pew and be preached to" method of worship, so a "brewin' with the guys and talkin' 'bout Jesus" might be more appealing. Also, if your church has a brew club it's a great way to share the Word and find new members at other community events that you might not be able to otherwise.
Thanks for posting this! Great topic and glad to see so many have replied already.
Living in the heart of the southern US bible belt, I have often pondered this issue. I was raised in the Midwest in a Catholic family, so this was never an issue for me growing up. All of my elders drank responsibly, and I learned to do so as well. Then I moved to Texas, and 20 years ago met my current wife, a life long Southern Baptist. She also drank socially, and when she took me to her parents house for our first Thanksgiving together, I took along a bottle of wine to share during the meal. Well, they are good people, but it probably wasn't the best of gifts. Then a few years later, upon getting to know me and finding that I drink a beer (rarely more than one) almost every evening, my wife's parents asked if I might be an alcoholic!
I love my wife's parents, but this seems to be a common misconception among those who have been brought up in a faith that frowns upon drinking. To their way of thinking, there are only two types of people - teetotalers and alcoholics. There have been quite a few of both in my wife's family. Hopefully after all these years I have shown them that there is a third type of person, one who can partake and do so responsibly.
Unfortunately, the myth still remains in many of these churches. My wife helped to lead me to salvation in Christ Jesus, and for that I will be eternally thankful. I absolutely love the conservative evangelical Christian churches of which we have been members. But the attitude towards even responsible alcohol consumption is still pervasive. I can't imagine asking for a church leaders blessing to start a home brewing club in the church. It's pretty sad, but we shall see. We are about to begin looking for a new church home, and it will be interesting to see how my new found hobby of home brewing goes over as I begin to meet new friends and church members. I refuse to hide the fact that I brew and drink responsibly, because I know I have nothing to be ashamed of. But it's harder for my wife to overcome her upbringing. So I need to be mindful of her feelings too. But hey, maybe we will find a 21st century church that moved on from the prohibitionist attitude! I can only hope and pray.
Blessings to all.
Living in the heart of the southern US bible belt, I have often pondered this issue. I was raised in the Midwest in a Catholic family, so this was never an issue for me growing up. All of my elders drank responsibly, and I learned to do so as well. Then I moved to Texas, and 20 years ago met my current wife, a life long Southern Baptist. She also drank socially, and when she took me to her parents house for our first Thanksgiving together, I took along a bottle of wine to share during the meal. Well, they are good people, but it probably wasn't the best of gifts. Then a few years later, upon getting to know me and finding that I drink a beer (rarely more than one) almost every evening, my wife's parents asked if I might be an alcoholic!
I love my wife's parents, but this seems to be a common misconception among those who have been brought up in a faith that frowns upon drinking. To their way of thinking, there are only two types of people - teetotalers and alcoholics. There have been quite a few of both in my wife's family. Hopefully after all these years I have shown them that there is a third type of person, one who can partake and do so responsibly.
Unfortunately, the myth still remains in many of these churches. My wife helped to lead me to salvation in Christ Jesus, and for that I will be eternally thankful. I absolutely love the conservative evangelical Christian churches of which we have been members. But the attitude towards even responsible alcohol consumption is still pervasive. I can't imagine asking for a church leaders blessing to start a home brewing club in the church. It's pretty sad, but we shall see. We are about to begin looking for a new church home, and it will be interesting to see how my new found hobby of home brewing goes over as I begin to meet new friends and church members. I refuse to hide the fact that I brew and drink responsibly, because I know I have nothing to be ashamed of. But it's harder for my wife to overcome her upbringing. So I need to be mindful of her feelings too. But hey, maybe we will find a 21st century church that moved on from the prohibitionist attitude! I can only hope and pray.
Blessings to all.
Recently there are a lot of church groups of men who are meeting at bars, having a few micro brews and signing church hymns. I found it kind of cool. Most people just had a beer or maybe two. But it was a fun, stress free way to chat with like minded individuals. The news report I saw said the churches were trying to find a less intimidating way to bring people in and wanted to build some comradeship.
When I read your post, I had to sit and think about it for some time.
In Paul's day, with respect to the book of Romans, eating clean or unclean meats was a very controversial issue much like alcohol is today.
He says "I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean."
Paul had no personal issue with unclean meats (meat offered to idols), but he recognized the fact that some people did.
A verse that does come into mind is 1 Corinthians 8:13:
"Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble."
I'm not going to stop drinking at a pub with my friends or at my home, but I'll refrain from bringing it if I have someone over where it may offend.
Paul didn't set up a "unclean meats group swap shop" in the church even though he knew there was no issue with it. He knew it was controversial and was more concerned about his fellow brothers and potential stumbling blocks.
Totally understand the fellowship aspect of the group, but I don't see why it has to be a church group. If your dad is looking to set up a homebrew group with you with christian friends, why not have it as that? A homebrew group, not a church homebrew group.
The groups goal was to bring people together for fellowship. We actually said, "this is not a religious gathering but rather a time for people to develop a relationship " . Our church has had a lot of new people my age (30ish) who don't really know each other, so the groups goal was to connect with those ppl.
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drainbamage
Keep HBT weird.
Seems like a good idea. I've had some of my best discussions on religion, morality, etc. over a few beers with good friends.
I think having a homebrew group at a church has to be played out on a church by church basis. I am pastor at a very conservative church. It would not fly there. At other churches that I have been apart of, still conservative, it would have worked. It is one thing to exercise my freedom in Christ, it is another to rub it in someone else's nose. Hopefully in 20 years this will not longer be that much of an issue in church. But, since churches are made up of us, sinners, there will always be something, we mess everything up in our sin. That is why we need Christ.
GHBWNY
Well-Known Member
+1 eulipion2. A few of us guys at church had an un-churched buddy who was searching. But he was uncomfortable walking through the front doors of "a church". He was interested when one of us suggested a Bible study so he offered to have it at his house. He even provided something to eat and drink, and it became known as "P,B &J": Pizza, Beer and Jesus. He really enjoyed it and got a lot out of it. Interesting that Jesus never required anyone to enter a particular building in order to have a relationship with Him...
Interesting opening post, interesting conversation, and thanks to everyone for keeping it away from theological discussion and disagreement, proselytizing, etc. As you know, discussion of religion (along with politics) isn't allowed on HBT except in the debate forum. So, this conversation needs to continue to steer clear of religion - the topic of the conversation as posed by the OP is beer, homebrewing and whether your faith community is accepting of it.
My buddy at church who I found out is a brewer when I tried to get this HB group started had an interesting idea. He wanted our group to develop a recipe together and enter it into a local HB contest. We missed the mark last year, but hope to do it this year.
He's a pretty good brewer and has placed before, so I think it would awesome to see a local church group get a good placement.
Lazy year it seemed EVERYONE brewed a bourbon dubble. So, I think anything but that would have a good chance.
A friend of mine is a judge at the event and said he will never drink a bourbon dubble again!
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He's a pretty good brewer and has placed before, so I think it would awesome to see a local church group get a good placement.
Lazy year it seemed EVERYONE brewed a bourbon dubble. So, I think anything but that would have a good chance.
A friend of mine is a judge at the event and said he will never drink a bourbon dubble again!
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Espressomattic
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Being a Christian and a home brewer is not a conflict IMO. It may not be wise for say some one who has an alcohol issue, however it should not be frowned upon. A friend and I have meal occasionally that focus on craft beer, fine food, fine wine (he has over 300). Also on the menu is coffee as I also home roast. This is also added to non Christians coming along. We enjoy good company and have some really great conversations not only about religion.
The home brew provides a talking point and for me, a whole new network of friends.
I am pleased to see so many other Christians brewing too.
Cheers
Matt
The home brew provides a talking point and for me, a whole new network of friends.
I am pleased to see so many other Christians brewing too.
Cheers
Matt
Heineken
Well-Known Member
Great thread and discussion. I am a Christian and in my early days of becoming a Christian I often thought about this and was quite conflicted on whether it was indeed not right. However, the more I learn about Christianity, the more comfortable I am with it. I think the key is moderation and not getting carried away, which have to admit I always don't do. Wine was obviously common in Jesus time including the last supper an communion. I just saw Son of God earlier today and watch Jesus drink wine and was even one of his miracles. I think it is one of His great gifts to us to enjoy.
Rhumbline
Well-Known Member
It is nice to see that a thread dealing with religion has made it to 12 pages without disintegrating, although I don't know how much grief it's caused the mods.
I'm also happy to see so many fellow Christians brewing.
I'm not a bible scholar but my understanding of the catholic point of view is that alcohol is ok, but drunkenness isn't. That seems to be a consistent thread. Eating is good, gluttony is to be avoided. It's the excess that makes something a problem.
Some folks choose to not have alcohol around to eliminate the possibility that they'll overindulge. I can sympathize with that, I don't buy some snack foods because I'll eat the whole package in one sitting.
Other folks deny themselves certain things as an acknowledgement of the sacrifices Jesus made for them.
I'm also happy to see so many fellow Christians brewing.
I'm not a bible scholar but my understanding of the catholic point of view is that alcohol is ok, but drunkenness isn't. That seems to be a consistent thread. Eating is good, gluttony is to be avoided. It's the excess that makes something a problem.
Some folks choose to not have alcohol around to eliminate the possibility that they'll overindulge. I can sympathize with that, I don't buy some snack foods because I'll eat the whole package in one sitting.
Other folks deny themselves certain things as an acknowledgement of the sacrifices Jesus made for them.
taoisilent
Well-Known Member
I’m Episcopalian (That’s a hop, skip, and a jump from Catholicism), and the folks at my church have no problem at all with drinking. In fact, it’s pretty usual that wine (as well as coffee, tea, etc) is served at church sponsored events, meet and greets, etc.
However, most of my extended family has a Baptist background (Southern / Free Will) and have mixed feelings about alcohol.
The Temperance Movement of the early 19th Century has influenced many American Protestant churches in this regard, and has conditioned many generations into believing that abstinence is the only Godly way. Interestingly enough, temperance began as an exercise in moderation, not complete abstinence. It was later in the movement that the Teetotalers and the Catholic Temperance Movement moved to a more radical view.
But as we all know here, fermented beverages have provided safe means of drinking for humans for at least 5 thousand years if not much longer. Only in the past 250 - 300 years have ideas concerning sanitation and safe drinking water been understood. And only in the past 20-30 years have the health benefits of moderate alcohol consumption been understood.
I think such a homebrew / church activity would be highly beneficial. People get excited about beer and brewing, and such excitement and enthusiasm make for great times to discuss spiritual matters. As long as it is done with common sense and some education about moderation. Paul had it right: moderation is the key (in all things, really).
Catholic priests and other protestant ministers (as well as Rabbis and Mystics and Shamans throughout time) have blessed beer and wine, and the blessing under my signature is an old Catholic one that I have tweaked just a bit.
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Ghost, be with us all evermore. Amen.
However, most of my extended family has a Baptist background (Southern / Free Will) and have mixed feelings about alcohol.
The Temperance Movement of the early 19th Century has influenced many American Protestant churches in this regard, and has conditioned many generations into believing that abstinence is the only Godly way. Interestingly enough, temperance began as an exercise in moderation, not complete abstinence. It was later in the movement that the Teetotalers and the Catholic Temperance Movement moved to a more radical view.
But as we all know here, fermented beverages have provided safe means of drinking for humans for at least 5 thousand years if not much longer. Only in the past 250 - 300 years have ideas concerning sanitation and safe drinking water been understood. And only in the past 20-30 years have the health benefits of moderate alcohol consumption been understood.
I think such a homebrew / church activity would be highly beneficial. People get excited about beer and brewing, and such excitement and enthusiasm make for great times to discuss spiritual matters. As long as it is done with common sense and some education about moderation. Paul had it right: moderation is the key (in all things, really).
Catholic priests and other protestant ministers (as well as Rabbis and Mystics and Shamans throughout time) have blessed beer and wine, and the blessing under my signature is an old Catholic one that I have tweaked just a bit.
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Ghost, be with us all evermore. Amen.
I think pappers has done a good job keeping us focused and bringing us back to the main point.
From what I've observed, most home brewer are pretty chill, friendly, and LOVE talking about brewing. I know when ppl at church and work ask me questions, I end up talking their ear off. I think when ppl in general learn what a process, art, and science, brewing is (not to mention time), people think , " this guy isn't a drunk, he's a liquid chef!".
So, I think since most HB'ers are chill, it puts a better light on beer in the religious community.
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From what I've observed, most home brewer are pretty chill, friendly, and LOVE talking about brewing. I know when ppl at church and work ask me questions, I end up talking their ear off. I think when ppl in general learn what a process, art, and science, brewing is (not to mention time), people think , " this guy isn't a drunk, he's a liquid chef!".
So, I think since most HB'ers are chill, it puts a better light on beer in the religious community.
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taoisilent
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SeeAliceBrewery
Well-Known Member
This topic within the church is also like that of getting tattoos. If one reads the Bible in its full context...they will realize that alcohol and tattoos are not bad.
GHBWNY
Well-Known Member
Nice thing about this forum is that each and every opinion is valid, regardless of the subject matter. We are all here because of the commonality of Homebrewing. HOW we got here, and WHY HB'ing is a passionate pursuit, even in the context and company of what others may consider taboo, is both enlightening and encouraging. Each post has stated the same thing in more or less the same way: be responsible for your actions and it will be a rewarding experience. Cheers and Amen!
StormesABrewin
Member
Interesting topic. I just started brewing a couple of months ago and the first person that offered to be a taste tester was the youth pastor at my church. He also recently friended me on untappd.
For about a year now, the men at my church get together once a month for a "smoke out". Our head pastor has a smoker so he'll smoke beef or pork, everyone smokes cigars and drinks whiskey. It's always a good time but I drink beer instead of whiskey.
We also started a monthly get together at one of the local micro breweries and since we're in Denver, there's a bazillion of them. Obviously my church doesn't have a problem with alcohol. Just for general info, we're part of the Evangelical Presbyterian Church. I've always noticed that Presbyterians are pretty laid back about this kind of stuff.
For about a year now, the men at my church get together once a month for a "smoke out". Our head pastor has a smoker so he'll smoke beef or pork, everyone smokes cigars and drinks whiskey. It's always a good time but I drink beer instead of whiskey.
We also started a monthly get together at one of the local micro breweries and since we're in Denver, there's a bazillion of them. Obviously my church doesn't have a problem with alcohol. Just for general info, we're part of the Evangelical Presbyterian Church. I've always noticed that Presbyterians are pretty laid back about this kind of stuff.
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