Chocolate Banana Dunkelweizen

[Dukes68]

Hi all, first time posting and I have a few questions about a recipe I've been toying around with. I'm going for a dunkelweizen that really focuses in on the banana aspects of the yeast and has decent amount of chocolate flavor. First the recipe then the questions.

3 lb Wheat LME
3 lb Wheat LME - 20 min
8 oz Corn Sugar
8 oz Light Munich Malt
8 oz Chocolate Wheat

1 oz German Tettnang - 60 min

1 Pkg Weihenstephan Weizen (Wyeast 3068)

Estimated Stats:
OG 1.053/FG 1.013
IBU 15.9
SRM 20.1
ABV 5.2%

I wasn't sure how much chocolate flavor would come just from the chocolate wheat so I've been considering adding 2 ounces semisweet baking chocolate in the boil. Would this give an overwhelming chocolate flavor to the beer? I was also thinking of letting it sit on a pound of mashed bananas in the secondary for a few days for a bit more banana flavor to go along with the banana esters from the yeast. Would it be worth this extra step? All critique is welcomed, this is my first real experimental batch.

 

[Culbetron]

The chocolate wheat won't really give chocolate taste. Just a little bit of darker, roasty character.

You really need some dark crystal malt in there. Try 4% special B and 4% crystal 40. This will enhance the sweetness and amplify the chocolatey bananna flavors.

To get good bananna flavor with this yeast, ferment at around 70-73f. Also try fermenting in an open container. That really helps those bananna esters.

If you want the chocolate flavor, try using dry cocoa powder (with no sugar added). It doesn't have the foam-killing oils that the baking chocolate has. Maybe add 1/4-1/2lb right at the end of the boil.

I'd leave the corn sugar out. I think a beer like this you might not want to thin.

 

[drainbamage]

The chocolate wheat won't really give chocolate taste. Just a little bit of darker, roasty character.

You really need some dark crystal malt in there. Try 4% special B and 4% crystal 40. This will enhance the sweetness and amplify the chocolatey bananna flavors.

To get good bananna flavor with this yeast, ferment at around 70-73f. Also try fermenting in an open container. That really helps those bananna esters.

If you want the chocolate flavor, try using dry cocoa powder (with no sugar added). It doesn't have the foam-killing oils that the baking chocolate has. Maybe add 1/4-1/2lb right at the end of the boil.

I'd leave the corn sugar out. I think a beer like this you might not want to thin.

I agree on most of those points. Warmer fermentation temps bring out the banana esters (cooler brings out the clove). Corn sugar would be out of place unless OP is just looking for an easy boost to ABV.

However, is Baker's chocolate really known to kill foam? I get the presence of oils, but I've brewed twice with it in the last year or so (8 oz. in one batch and 6 in the other), and both batches had a creamy, persistent head. Wheat beers generally have good head retention so the factors may balance out.

 

[Dukes68]

Thanks for the quick responses. I completely forgot to put in the original post I was planning to slightly underpitch the yeast and ferment around 72F to really bring out more of the banana esters. I'll probably go with the bucket this time instead of the carboy and just prop the lid on or cover it with a towel.

@drainbamage that's essential what the corn sugar was for. I wanted this to end up about 5% abv so I added enough to get it close. I'll take it out and add in some of the crystal malts @Culbetron suggested.

 

[Culbetron]

However, is Baker's chocolate really known to kill foam? I get the presence of oils, but I've brewed twice with it in the last year or so (8 oz. in one batch and 6 in the other), and both batches had a creamy, persistent head.

Cocoa has the advantages of bakers chocolate without the oils. Here's a snippit from a BYO article on brewing with chocolate:
"Baker's chocolate is the same as ground cocoa, except that oils have been added - or, in some cases, not removed - to make a solid "cake" of unsweetened bitter chocolate. These oils, whether added or natural, cause a minor inconvenience for the brewer. Any beer made with these and other types of oil-containing chocolate must include a long and vigorous boil time to volatilize the oils, otherwise the beer will suffer from poor head retention."

http://byo.com/grains/item/313-brewing-with-chocolate

 

[RoadhouseBrews]

How did the beer come out? I have done similar dunkles adding dark malts or coffee, and fermenting at 72-75 to get more banana flavors. I have thoroughly enjoyed every batch!