Chi Company

[thargrav]

Before I get into details let me add that I forgot to mention that I have also purchased from Morebeer, Northern Brewer, Brewmasters Warehouse, Nor Cal Brewing Solutions, Williams Brewing and Bowiefan. Again, all with great results - thanks to you guys as well!

The description for the "reconditioned" 10 gal corney says that there may be a "small ding (not a dent)" in the body. The keg I got had a DENT - not a smal ding. The dent was significant enough that it ruptured the seam and had to be rewelded. The reweld was atrocious!
They do state that the factory does not warantee for pressence of excessive internal weld slag and therfore they will not accept retuns or exchanges. I did read that and figured it shouldn't be much of a problem as they stated on thier site that this had only been reported less than 4 times in the 3 years they had been selling them. The website now states it's happened less than 10 times in 3 years so this is obviously becoming more of a problem - at least 6 times in the last week!? The amount of slag on the inside was also unbelievable! An absolute amature job and not what you would expect from a professional welder at a factory.
I sent two emails a few days apart and got zero response. Shipping took about two weeks - I don't have the exact dates in front of me.
So bottom line, I did take a risk on a "reconditioned" item but they were less than up front in describing the condition and occurance of this problem. Just want to help those out there considering spending $200 know what they may be getting into.
Oh, and cashbrewing, glad it's worked out for you but I'm not "just thrashing somebody on the Internet because I can".

Forgot to mention also that I just recently found out that the lid will not seal without pressure.

This is one reason I stopped selling reconditioned kegs and will only sell used kegs when I find more. I got tired of shipping cleaned, tested and serviceable kegs to customers with cosmetic damage they did not like.

Also, most used kegs won't seal without internal pressure. They weren't designed to. The bale handle is only there to hold the lid closed until internal pressure can seal the keg.

Used kegs are now 30 years old and older - what do you expect from them?

 

[Golddiggie]

Used kegs are now 30 years old and older - what do you expect from them?

IMO, IF the seller gives an accurate condition description, or a few quick pictures, then the buyer KNOWS what to expect. If you're buying an used keg at close to brand new keg prices, I'd expect it to look almost brand new. If not, then yes, I would be a bit pissed off about paying that much for a crappy old keg.

As for the ones with bad repair jobs, if that wasn't shown and described in the listing, then it's the sellers fault, not the buyer.

Also, chi is notorious for NOT communicating with customers for extended periods. That is, until said customer posts up here. Then, suddenly, he's falling all over himself to make things better. IMO, that's several weeks too late to keep a customer. While I don't expect instant communication from a vendor, I would expect a reply to an email within 1-2 business days. Phone calls should either be picked up, or returned same business day (provided it's not the end of the day where the vendor is). Posting business hours often helps with that part.

I also agree that navigation on chi's site is difficult at best. Especially considering how other sites function.

BTW, I am talking about my own personal experiences with chi... Not second hand knowledge.

 

[JRems]

Used kegs are now 30 years old and older - what do you expect from them?

the most recent kegs I got from pepsi are dated 1992-1995, hardly 30 years old. This is also supposed to be a new reconditioned keg that didn't get welded properly from the factory. I have a couple 5 gal kegs that were re welded at the seam, there is quite a bit of grinding marks inside. I would just grind them inside until it's got the slag removed.

 

[lpdjshaw]

I got tired of shipping cleaned, tested and serviceable kegs to customers with cosmetic damage they did not like.

Used kegs are now 30 years old and older - what do you expect from them?

First point, not the case at all - I totally expected this keg to have some minor COSMETIC flaws not a DAMAGED keg that, in the state it was shipped to me, was completely unusable for fermenting, storing and/or serving beer out of. Here's a direct quote from the website:

"WHY IS THIS REFURBISHED?
During the manufacturing process, welding the bottom skirt to the keg body, there may be a mis-weld that requires re-welding,
There may be a small ding (not a dent) in the keg body due to slipping out of the workers hands during final cleaning after production.
Either condition does not affect the performance of the keg."

This was not the case - the keg was DENTED in the body requiring re-welding of the BODY resulting in a behive of porous slag INSIDE the keg.


Second point, this is what I expected from them, another direct quote:

"NEW but Factory Refurbished."

Sorry to drag this thread on but I did want to point out a few additional misconceptions regarding replies to my OP and a follow up.

The main reason for forums like these are to converse with people of similar interests, share information, hopefully learn something and maybe be impart some knowlege to others. Why some of you took offense to me pointing out, on this forum about BEER, that somebody or some company was misleadingly selling equipment for MAKING BEER that can't function in that capacity, is beyond me - but to each his own.

 

[thargrav]

I did not know if you were being reasonable or one of many I delt with who expected pretty tanks when many refurbished tanks aren't.

From reading your latest post I believe you have a legitimate complaint.

 

[StMarcos]

StMarcos have you tried the guy on eBay from Santa Rosa that advertises corny kegs every week? I think I need to give him a call.

Might need to check that out. Was really looking for sankes however. Chicompany and sabco seem to have them, but appear to be out of stock. Not for cutting the tops off, so the spear needs to be in good order.

 

[TheCHICompany]

Thank you for your feedback.

We are sorry that you are not fully satisfied with the 10gallon ball lock keg you received.

For the benifit of everyone, the listing is here:

http://www.chicompany.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=376_1_44&products_id=1073


UNLIKE EVERY OTHER SELLER OF THESE KEGS, WE ALSO INCLUDE THE FOLLOWING TEXT, as you will see on the itme page, it is underlined and red in color:

"The factory does not warranty these kegs for the presence of excessive internal weld slag at any re-weld location. Due to this, The CHI Company can not replace nor exchange any refurbished keg.

Situations where the user felt there was excessive slag has occured less than 10 times in the 3+ years we have been selling these."

Other outfits sell these also and say nothing, but we believe in being "up front" about their condition."

Please tell us, WHAT MORE COULD WE DO TO INFORM?

Please tell us, WHAT OTHER COMPANY SELLING THESE HAS -ANYTHING- CLOSE TO A SIMILAR DISCLAIMER?

Answer: none!

These kegs all come from the same manufacturer.

In our belief of being honest and open, The CHI Company IS THE ONLY seller on the internet that has posted ANYTHING about internal weld slag (to our detriment and possible loss of sales I may add).

We wish we could replace your keg, but economics does not permit it.
We have the lowest price on these kegs anywhere on the net,
We offer $8.99 flat rate shipping, even to a residence, on this item,
We are LUCKY if we make $12 on this keg after costs and shipping. Our only choice now is to stop selling these and let the other shops sell them with NO accurate discription or disclaimer.

We feel we have gone above and beyond what is required with an item like this, and we have gone FAR beyond what ANY other seller has done with the description of these kegs.

Should you wish to see if there is anything we -might- be able to do, working with the manufacturer, please feel free to email us your order number to: [email protected]

Thank you,
The CHI Company

 

[TheCHICompany]

And yes, we will change the number from 10 to 11.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

I have been completely satisfied with all my purchases from CHI company. I have purchased about 6 kegs, and a kegerator setup from them. Customer service was great for me.

 

[Nightstalker]

Actually CHI .. you could just take away the "less then" 10 .. it is not 11, it is at least 10

Just out of curiosity. You guys are not the one repairing them I would assume so my question is, do you ever turn back some of the ones you get from the manufacture or repair facility? If you seem to be having a run of bad luck put a little heat back on the guys you are getting them from. Just some friendly advice. That is what we do here at work if we see a run of bad products that we have shipped out. .. And this doesnt happen ofter but maybe then they will reimburse YOU and you can swap out the bad products for the customer. Believe me I know times are tough just trying to help out. On both sides of this issue.

 

[TheCHICompany]

Nightstalker, Thank you for you input.
-Correct, we do not make these tanks. They are manufactured by a large metal container company.

-Correct, we do not repair these. Everything is done at the mfg. location and kegs ship directly from the mfg. to the customer.

-We have notified the mfg. of each keg that the customer notifies us about: They will not replace/reimburse for excess slag.
Early on we would replace the keg -at our expense- and then sell the "bad" keg to a non food industry user (chemical, carpet cleaner, etc.) at a discounted price. We can no longer afford to do that.

-We have PDFd this post and emailed it to the mfg reminding them that their sales is affected just as much as ours is, as it pertains to these kegs. We stated that they should either reprogram the welding robots and/or retrain/dismiss the welders that re-weld them. We did that this morning.

-We feel horrible that there is a dissatisfied customer and we will ask the mfg. if there is anything we can do to make the OP satisfied.

Matt

 

[Nightstalker]

Yea this is one of those touchy situations where you are "somewhat" in the middle. The industry I am in we have run some aftermarket products instead of OEM to help with the bottom line. Somethings are working out great and others are costing us more than it would to stay OEM. Only reason I say this is just to offer more advice and NOT to tell you how to run your business. We have had plenty of pissed off people due to some less than quality parts. I am sure the list of keg suppliers is not very big so maybe ask the manufacture to only give you kegs in the top tier when it comes to condition as you may have to start looking for a different supplier to meet your needs with the recent complaints. I am sure they are aware there is an issue with the less than stellar quality on their end. Sending out crap will not keep them in business for long. As for kegs I feel they are a luxury and not a necessity when it comes to homebrewing. Like I said .. just a thought.

Maybe show the manufacture/repair place this thread as it is "technically" their product. Then if all works out the OP will delete this post out of respect and understanding that there was an issue and all is resolved. OR at least change the topic to THANKS to Chi Company with the final response of how it all worked out in the end with some frustration at the beginning. .. Good luck to the both of you. Night.

 

[RDWHAHB]

You are selling a product that from the sounds of it cannot be used for it's intended purpose. That's rough for a person that splurges $200, regardless of your low profit margin on the sale. Maybe include pictures of the "bad" kegs on the description showing fixed holes, slag, and dents so people know what they are risking. Personally, I'd stop selling them or mark them up enough to cover these losses. Not sure how much volume you do on them, but I wouldn't want to stake my companies reputation over a $12 profit.

 

[TheCHICompany]

"You are selling a product that from the sounds of it cannot be used for it's intended purpose."

And here's the rub....
-some tanks the customer emails us and asks why the tank is "refurbed" when they can not see anything wrong,
-some tanks have the smallest of welds that the customer does not mind,
-some tanks have the smallest of welds that the customer will go balistic on,
-some tanks have large welds that are absolutely horrible.

There is no "set condition" or "average condition".

 

[TheCHICompany]

Have found O.P.s order, contacted, and will see if we can resolve w/ the mfg.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

For the benifit of everyone, the listing is here:

http://www.chicompany.net/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=376_1_44&products_id=1073


UNLIKE EVERY OTHER SELLER OF THESE KEGS, WE ALSO INCLUDE THE FOLLOWING TEXT, as you will see on the itme page, it is underlined and red in color:

"The factory does not warranty these kegs for the presence of excessive internal weld slag at any re-weld location. Due to this, The CHI Company can not replace nor exchange any refurbished keg.

Situations where the user felt there was excessive slag has occured less than 10 times in the 3+ years we have been selling these."

Saying it rarely happens after the disclaimer largely negates the warning in the disclaimer. I get that you are "informing" buyers that it is buyer beware but making it sound like it's rarely an issue is going to make people disregard it. I suspect this is the intended effect of that statement. If you wanted people to take the disclaimer seriously, you would remove the line about its frequency.

 

[TheCHICompany]

Saying it rarely happens after the disclaimer largely negates the warning in the disclaimer. I get that you are "informing" buyers that it is buyer beware but making it sound like it's rarely an issue is going to make people disregard it. I suspect this is the intended effect of that statement. If you wanted people to take the disclaimer seriously, you would remove the line about its frequency.

-----------------------

Thank you for your constructive input, it is appreciated!

It really has been a non issue for so many purchasers of these kegs. The number quoted (now 11) is about dead-on; representing the number of kegs where the customer felt they were "unusable" for beer or wine use due to excess slag.

Perhaps people could offer texts of what they would place on the item page as a disclaimer, for our inclusion. The more people that have CONSTRUCTIVE input into this, the better the item page would be and would be better for all customers.

 

[RDWHAHB]

I agree with ReverseApacheMaster. Maybe this would help convey the buyer beware stance on the item:

This is an item that ships directly from the factory. CHI Company does not inspect these. The factory does not warranty these kegs for the presence of excessive internal weld slag at any re-weld location. Due to this, The CHI Company can not replace nor exchange any refurbished keg. Several cases have occurred where the user felt the keg was unusable; unfortunately CHI Company cannot help in these cases.

 

[Nightstalker]

^^^ I like it. Cut and dry. And leaves no room (that I can see) for any question from the customer.

 

[Minjin]

I agree with ReverseApacheMaster. Maybe this would help convey the buyer beware stance on the item:

This is an item that ships directly from the factory. CHI Company does not inspect these. The factory does not warranty these kegs for the presence of excessive internal weld slag at any re-weld location. Due to this, The CHI Company can not replace nor exchange any refurbished keg. Several cases have occurred where the user felt the keg was unusable; unfortunately CHI Company cannot help in these cases.

Hit it on the head!!!!
Give it to them plain. That clears your responsibility. And the end user buys at his own discretion.

 

[StMarcos]

"about dead-on" : "roughly exact"

 

[Gamer]

TheCHICompany. What are everyone's experience with this business?

 

[klnosaj]

I know that he harangues people to "buy American" but that he sells lots and lots and lots of Chinese and other foreign made products.

 

[Airplanedoc]

Really Bad,

They are at the bottom of my list, even below walmart.

 

[heferly]

Check out the company reviews near the bottom of the forums

 

[Gamer]

Reason I ask is I kind of defended them but all the posts were removed. First time I've seen that with these forums. Is the forums for us users or for the vendors is the question I have. I really think that if posts could save me from getting screwed I'd like to know about it. If the moderators are stopping the users from posting opinions about vendors then I'm pretty much done with any vendor here except for the 2 I order from. Censorship doesnt build trust.

 

[MyNameIsPaul]

Reason I ask is I kind of defended them but all the posts were removed. First time I've seen that with these forums. Is the forums for us users or for the vendors is the question I have. I really think that if posts could save me from getting screwed I'd like to know about it. If the moderators are stopping the users from posting opinions about vendors then I'm pretty much done with any vendor here except for the 2 I order from. Censorship doesnt build trust.

We were censored because we were off-topic in the thread, which according to the rules that we signed up for, is a violation. No big deal, but we should have posted any concerns we had with this company in the correct Vendor Reviews forum.

This thread should be moved there as well.

 

[bob1852]

Reason I ask is I kind of defended them but all the posts were removed. First time I've seen that with these forums.

That pretty much sums up most/all of CHICompany's threads. Not passing judgement, just reporting what I have observed.

 

[Gamer]

Thanks Paul, that makes sense. Someone delete this thread and I'll just pop down below and read.

 

[Airplanedoc]

Reason I ask is I kind of defended them but all the posts were removed. First time I've seen that with these forums. Is the forums for us users or for the vendors is the question I have. I really think that if posts could save me from getting screwed I'd like to know about it. If the moderators are stopping the users from posting opinions about vendors then I'm pretty much done with any vendor here except for the 2 I order from. Censorship doesnt build trust.

Amen Brother.... My deleted post was on the topic, but it was also censored. But I guess a vendor subscription trumps a premium supporter subscription. It all seemed very Orwellian to me. Censorship doesnt build trust

Back to the original topic Their customer service is horrible.