Chest Freezer Kegerator Build

[mach9]

I am etremely curious to know how that turns out. From a physics standpoint I think you may run into an issue with the co2 comming out of solution, but, there are too many variables to say for sure. I hope it works in an acceptable manner

 

[CidahMastah]

Mach9 - I agree with you that there will likely be a foaming issue. The question is, how much, for how long. It would just be too damn sweet to have the dual tower set up on my bar - I have to give it a try.

I think a lot of people are speaking from theory on this too. Like you said, so many variables. It is easy to say "you should install glycol", but it might be totally unnecessary.

I am thinking I will probably have some results to report back on in a week or so. Since there are so many variables, identifying when my co2 is ready, and then adjusting line length will be a challenge. It might take a few days to trouble shoot, because after a while, all the pour offs will produce an absent mind

I have even been considering a purge valve in the basement near the kegerator. i.e. have a drain on the beer line so when a session is done, I could go downstairs, shut off gas pressure on the keg, burp it, open the purge on the beer line and open the faucet upstairs. This would drain the line, but it would introduce oxygen within the line. So i am leaning against trying that. I think it would leade to less sanitary conditions than I am comfortable with.

 

[CidahMastah]

Quick update:

Received the material last night and installed.

Ended up skipping the PVC and running 1/4 ID tubing (15ft lengths) through some piping insulation (the closed cell foam kind). I was concerned about the 90 degree bends adding turbulence and causing foaming. Also I figure, the insulation stuff is cheap and at $1.18 for 6 feet, if I need to service the lines or change then, I just cut the foam off and replace it. I do plan on wraping the line with another layer of cheap foam insulation once I get proof of concept in about a week when things are carbed correctly and balanced.

I ran sanitizer through it (at 12PSI) and the flow rate seemed to be right on (maybe 8second pour?). I am going to time it tomorrow (seconds to fill a pint) but I forgot to last night.

I am carbing at 30 PSI for 24-48 hours and then dropping to 11-12 PSI.

(did I mention my Graff is coming of age in a week and the porter I made tasted awesom flat?!) - Can't wait to fire that through the lines! As an added bonus I found out I can squeeze in 4 kegs!!! they fit with less than 1/4 inch of play, so that was a great surprise because I thought I was only going to achieve 3.

more to come!

 

[CidahMastah]

ok as an update - just started running the beer and graff through the tower last night (have a headache from too much "testing" of the lines ). It is pouring great, no foaming issues and I waited over an hour between pours and no problems.

I will try it again tonight and see how it works, since it will have had a full day to warm in the lines. So far, so good. I would say the carbonation is pretty low right now since it is a porter, but the graff has a labatt blue or coors like level of carbonation. I took some temp readings last night, but will be more scientific about them tonight - will post them.

Two conclusions:
1. During a session I don't think cooling the lines will be required for this set up.
2. Since there is a little less than 5oz in the line, even if it CO2 comes out of solution it will still mix with cold beer and probably make an ok 1st beer (if not to the refrig it goes)

Other than that the tower looks freakin awesome on the bar!

 

[Jota21]

Take some pics tonight... I was thinking about doing the same thing when we were remodelling our house but was vetoed by the Mrs. I had the walls open and was toying with the idea of running the beer lines through electrical conduit and insualating it on the outside to make pulling the lines out easy.

 

[CidahMastah]

Jota21 - will get some pictures of the set up for you - I did post a couple pics of the bar and the stainless set up on my profile, but they are crappy cell phone pics. I was originally going to go PVC and insulate, but then I decided against it.

For the record I can't believe my wife let me do it. She was giving me a lot of stern looks about it when I was drilling the hole in the floor. Then she saw it attached and she said, "very good, this meets my standards". Ha!

 

[Flomaster]

my SWMBO was not happy when I told her the Keezer was moving into the Kitchen. I then assured he it would look just as good if not better than our cabinets and granite countertop we already have.

I am 1/2 through the build process and she is now on board to having it in the kitchen.

-=Jason=-

 

[EKennett]

Do you have the kegerator under the bar or is it downstairs? How long of a beer line run do you have?

I made a keezer with a tower right on top and had problems with foaming. I made a blower box and things are good now. I'll see if I can snap some pics when I get home later.

 

[EKennett]

Since there is a little less than 5oz in the line, even if it CO2 comes out of solution it will still mix with cold beer and probably make an ok 1st beer (if not to the refrig it goes)

I wanted to just touch on this too... If you start out with foam and keep pouring on top of it you will just get more foam. And 5oz. of liquid which turns in to foam can turn into a pitcher full of foam or more. So no matter how you slice it, it's wasted beer. But if you're pouring without foam problems then kudos to you, looking forward to seeing pics of the setup.

And hot wife btw... way to go

 

[CidahMastah]

Ekennett - haha too funny (love the banana man)!

Thanks for the info on the foam, you are right, I bet I will have to keep a bucket handy to combat the foam if I start getting it (hopefully not). If it does, I may try a blower set up - might ask for your expertise if that moment comes.

I have a keezer in my basement and am running 15 feet of 1/4 id tubing from keg to tower (straight up through the floor). I probably am only using about 10-12 feet of the line externally (~3feet is coiled up in the keezer).The line outside the keezer was stuffed in closed cell foam pipe insualtion. Vertical rise is about 9-10 feet from center of keg to top of tower. My aim is to have a balanced system and right now I was dispensing the porter at 11psi and the graf at 12.5ish psi.

I may have just had beginners luck so far but it seems to be working well. the true test will be when I pull a pint tonight.


Good work with your persuasive maneuver Flomaster! I wasn't so fortunate. Now that I have it in the basement though, and it is working.... it is pretty sweet.

I also put a party tap line in the basement keezer for secretive drinking.

 

[CidahMastah]

VERY happy to report that the beer came out with no extra foam!! Good flow rate and I filled a pint glass which I temped at 44F. I could not be happier. Well so far I am gonna have to call shenanigans on the nay sayers. It looks like this set up is possible, with no cooling lines. I may eat my words later if the system fails, but for now it is performing swimmingly.

Click on my profile to see some pictures of the installation and my basic keezer. Keep in mind all of my install was temporary because I didn't know if this would work. I plan on hiding the tubing line in due time. I also need to redo some of my plumbing in the keezer but I am waiting on parts. I plan on rigging it up for 4 cornies and my bottler I just bought (Blichmann).

Enjoy

 

[mach9]

Awesome, makes me wish I had a basement

 

[CidahMastah]

Awesome, makes me wish I had a basement

That part of my basement is awesome, it has been deemed the cider cellar and it plays a huge role in stable temps for my cider making. Its too bad about no basements in CA.

Wish I would have taken these pictures today instead - I cleaned up the clutter down there since SWMBO wanted it to be clean for holiday visitors.

 

[CidahMastah]

Update:
My Graff seems to be overly foaming when dispensing now, but the porter does not (set at the same PSI). I almost think the torrified wheat in the Graff might be causing the problem. Or, when the graff was carbonating on the second line I over carbed it. My subsequent brews will probably tell me more about this issue.

At first pour after a 24 hour delay in use or so I get:
a. Graff nearly a 80 percent foam
b. Porter about 1.5inches- 2 inches of foam

The graff continues to be foamy until I pour out 3+ pints while the porter's second pour has about 1/2 inch foam. In order to avoid beer waste, I now use a frozen mug for the first pour. This works perfectly because the second half of the pour is cold from the keezer and the first half of the pour is chilled by the glass (the 4-5 oz of beer in the lines doesn't stay ice cold over 24 hours).

So, if I have friends over, and pour one beer every 2-3 hours or so (maybe more), I get a perfect pour for the porter.

I did go back and add more insulation to the lines, so now there is about 1 1/4-2 inches of foam around the beer lines (say diameter of 4-5inches). I taped them up with duct tape at the seams and did a reflective wrap from the living room floor to the tower to help reflect sunlight heat. I also added more insulation to the keezer and made the connections more permanent.

 

[EKennett]

Sounds like you need to cool your lines or enjoy watching your beer turn into useless foam.

 

[CidahMastah]

I only have useless foam for the one type of cider (which was likely overcarbed). Will let you know when I put a couple other kegs in if this issue occurs - I have ubu ale carbing up right now.

From my perspective, unless the ubu ale or other beers act like the cider, I am good to go. This would tell me the cider is overcarbed.

Remember, the porter was producing perfect pours after the first pour. And the first pour for the porter was perfectly acceptable, albeit slightly over foamed.

Guess what I am saying is - the setup works very well as is. With a tap, you just top off your beer as the foam works down (60seconds?), I don't dump the foam, so no wasted brew.

Since I just reinsulated - I will try to update any changes in a week, which is when the graff should be stabilized and less carbonated.



EDIT 1/11/2011:

Seems I overcarbed the Graff and the porter. I am getting routine pours from the tap with < .5 inches of foam. I did the rush method of carbing and it caught up with me. Just put in my UBU ale and it is performing well through the tap.

Conclusion being - the set up is working phenomonally well. I have been toying with temps, and working out the kinks in the system so if you are interested in the specs feel free to PM me.

 

[jyanich]

very happy i found this thread. I had not heard of a collar and I am in the process of acquiring the parts/materials to make a kegerator. I have a frigidaire chest freezer (14..something cu.ft.) and all of the parts for a guinness/stout conversion kit from Micromatic. My beer tap spouts/handles are actually in the adjacent room and the kegerator will sit behind the wall... any recommendations on keeping the beer lines cold...I will probably have only about 3-4 feet of beer line outside the kegerator to the wall, but I know it must be maintained cold. Weighing options of a blower fan using the freezer cold air in a closed tube (pvc pipe?) or using a glycol/refrigerant liquid in a coiled tube around the beer line...like the coolant systems in a gamer's PC.

 

[CidahMastah]

are the rooms hot in the summer? Side by side rooms?

You are going to want at least 5 feet of beer line for resistance on your pours. You can certainly go the fan or glycol route with that length. It will cost you some $$ for the glycol.

If I were you I would try the cheap way out first like I did. Go to HD and grab foam piping insulation. I layered in the thickness of three foam tubes and then went over the foam with furnace aluminum foil tape (to reflect light and heat from sunlight). I have been very happy with my set up, but I have not been through a summer with it yet. Worst case, you will have to install a fan set up later. I spent about $10-15 on foam and tape to rig my setup. To run glycol lines, or even a fan, would have been hundreds of dollars.

 

[SFcityBrewer]

I just finished my first keezer... Found a good deal ($60) for a 5cf chest freezer on craigslist and picked up the rest of the parts from my lhbs for another $60 (not counting the kegging setup and co2 i already had)...