Cheap compact wort pump

[augiedoggy]

Is this the one that's coated? http://greatbreweh.com/Beer_Pump.html

The pictures pictures show what looks to be the same magnet (uncoated) as the Chinese knockoffs. And also states the magnet is just ceramic ferrite, same is the Chinese ones.

They are all the Chinese pumps.... The Chinese designed these so they are not knockoffs... Great brew states right on that site you linked that the magnets are coated to be foodsafe.... I also remember the thread on another forum were great brew was rcalled out on the non food grade magnets when they first started selling these pumps according to that thread they went to to manufacturer and had them coat the magnets for the ones greatbrew speed to order... I agree there doesn't appear to be a coating from the video... Maybe a clear coat of some sort?

BTW those are the $25 pumps only with brass threads, molded with different ppe foodgrade plastic instead of the abs normally used and and a coated magnet We don't really know which models are which and there seems to be a lot of conflicting info, even from the manufacturer as members here have contacted them and get different answers as to which pumps are and aren't foodsafe.

I do know my black topflo style pump is made of ABS plastic and not the food grade ppe plastic that greatbrewehs pumps are made of... My foodgrade tan pumps are made of this PPE material and it is noticeably harder and has a different looking texture than regular abs plastic.

I no longer use mine either but it worked well minus the priming issues when mounted directly to kettles.

 

[Mojzis]

Just a heads up the 24volt versions of the tan pumps are a dollar or two more and pump just as strong as the black topsfo ones... This is what I upgraded to and recommend.

I wish I knew that before I put a 12v supply in the panel.

They are all the Chinese pumps.... The Chinese designed these so they are not knockoffs...

I understand this but its makes its easier to clarify his way.

Great brew states right on that site you linked that the magnets are coated to be foodsafe.... I also remember the thread on another forum were great brew was rcalled out on the non food grade magnets when they first started selling these pumps according to that thread they went to to manufacturer and had them coat the magnets for the ones greatbrew speed to order... I agree there doesn't appear to be a coating from the video... Maybe a clear coat of some sort?

Or its an old video. Still he doesn't state what is the coating, which would make me wary especially for the price.

 

[wbarber69]

I've started a discussion with the guy I deal with over at ussolarpumps. I'll see what they think about all this. I'm pretty sure all the topsflo plumps use ppe instead of abs because abs would fall apart at high temps.

 

[augiedoggy]

I've started a discussion with the guy I deal with over at ussolarpumps. I'll see what they think about all this. I'm pretty sure all the topsflo plumps use ppe instead of abs because abs would fall apart at high temps.

It doesn't fall apart... My black Pump has "abs" stamped right in the pump head but its not a topsflo or us solar branded pump... My "p38" style tan pumps are from the same supplier as us solar uses though... The ppe plastic has a hardened feel and an almost marbled faded color to the surface of the plastic. It also cracks easily when dropped.

 

[augiedoggy]

I wish I knew that before I put a 12v supply in the panel.
.

I hear you ,
that's what I did but you can wire in a simple $5 boost transformer and keep your 12v supply...

The black topsflo style ones will run on 12 or 24v...

 

[Falcon3]

Still fighting the good fight, huh Augie I like how these pump threads re-invigorate after a few weeks/months and the same debates come up.

For the record, my old ABS pump (Black Topsflow-style $22 on Ebay) held up well after 5-6 brews. I have recently replaced it with the tan center inlet due to wanting to whirlpool, and not trusting ABS at boiling temps (due to potential leaching of chemicals, physically the pump was great even at 207 degree wort- still flowed around 2GPM). I'll probably still use the black one for fly sparging if I get tired of batch sparging (non-acidic water and temps around 175 or lower)

 

[Falcon3]

Or its an old video. Still he doesn't state what is the coating, which would make me wary especially for the price.

There's a thread around somewhere where the owner of Great BrewEH actually states what the magnet is coated in. Sounded like a silicon-based blend with some other food-grade material - also sounded like they just dipped the magnet in so the layer is clear and difficult to see.

Of course they could be blowing smoke up our butts and just reselling the $20 pump for $70, but I guess that's up to you to determine.

 

[lapoltba]

If you look on the Topsflo website, they have a SS "head" pump listed there. I contacted them for more info and it is not just the "head" that is SS. I am quoting that because someone had commented about mag drive pumps not having a head in the classic sense, but I figured we all understood what was meant by the term.

Anyway. In the literature I was sent it clearly shows that the entire wetted surface inside the pump is SS with the exception of the magnet and impeller. The impeller is PPS (poly-phenylene sulfide) which is high temperature and can be food safe. I still do not know if the magnet is or can be coated. I'm not exactly comfortable with the possibility of leaching lead or other contaminants out of the magnet.

I would upload the PDF catalog that they sent but it is too large. Let me know if anyone would like me to email or host it somewhere.

 

[augiedoggy]

Whats the inner chamber walls that surround the magnet coil made of? This is what I'm assuming is also plastic and the wort enters this area to be used as lubricant.. it doesn't make sense to me that they would make this part of the pump out of some sort of non metallic metal and still make the lower outer pump body of plastic...

 

[augiedoggy]

Still fighting the good fight, huh Augie I like how these pump threads re-invigorate after a few weeks/months and the same debates come up.

For the record, my old ABS pump (Black Topsflow-style $22 on Ebay) held up well after 5-6 brews. I have recently replaced it with the tan center inlet due to wanting to whirlpool, and not trusting ABS at boiling temps (due to potential leaching of chemicals, physically the pump was great even at 207 degree wort- still flowed around 2GPM). I'll probably still use the black one for fly sparging if I get tired of batch sparging (non-acidic water and temps around 175 or lower)

Everyone seems to only read maybe the first and last page of these threads and they miss a lot of the important details... someone should make a comparisio. Sticky... I only have three types of pumps myself to compare but I know others have to have more.

 

[lapoltba]

Whats the inner chamber walls that surround the magnet coil made of? This is what I'm assuming is also plastic and the wort enters this area to be used as lubricant.. it doesn't make sense to me that they would make this part of the pump out of some sort of non metallic metal and still make the lower outer pump body of plastic...

As I said, all SS. All the wetted components are SS aside from the impeller and magnet.

 

[augiedoggy]

As I said, all SS. All the wetted components are SS aside from the impeller and magnet.

That is good news and makes a huge difference if the pump body on the cheaper pumps is not PPE plastic..

Thanks for finding (and posting) that.
I looked for that pic and found this site which also states it is foodsafe... odd that the manufacturer wouldnt just come out and say that? and they say nothing about a foodsafe coated magnet?

My guess is whats considered foodsafe in one country doesn't necessarily meet the criteria everywhere..

http://www.solarhome.ru/catalog/product_info.php?currency=RUB&products_id=1267&language=en one interesting thing I found on the russian site is that unless the pump is being powered with at least 17v its not pumping at full capacity... I'm curious now to see what kind of flow I would get with mine at the full 24V... unless it uses some sort of boost transformer technology to turn 17v+ into the full 24v?

 

[lapoltba]

In my experience, the difference between food grade and non-food grade is a material certification. There isn't much difference as long as the plastic type is the same. PPS is generally safe for food use.

I am trying to find a place to order one or two to see what they look like and how they work. And no, I'm not paying USSolar a 150% markup.

 

[augiedoggy]

according to this us solar ebay ad the magnets are infact ceramic (coated?) and the diagram shows a white magnet?? Curious if anyone who owns one can verify this?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Solar-Hot-W...olar-Panel-Good-to-230-F-145psi-/190635868928

 

[lapoltba]

Honestly, at this point it really doesn't matter. If the only source for these wants to charge $138, you're still better just buying a chugger pump.

 

[augiedoggy]

Honestly, at this point it really doesn't matter. If the only source for these wants to charge $138, you're still better just buying a chugger pump.

well to be fair the plastic ones they are selling are in the $75 ballpark.(about $100 for the more powerful 4gpm model).. still I see your point even thats thats encroaching chugger/march territory.

 

[KPSquared]

This thread has come full circle like 3 times... If only people would read BEFORE posting.

 

[augiedoggy]

This thread has come full circle like 3 times... If only people would read BEFORE posting.

I get it.. long thread beat to death,
But where is the info in the last few posts already posted in this thread? Enlighten me please if it has been covered because before we were talking about These
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Promote-DC5...552?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19faa16cd0 pumps which are in fact made by a different manufactuer as it turns out than the topsflo ones and are in fact abs plastic with non coated magnets.....

 

[wbarber69]

Well it looks like everyone else did their work. I was gonna post the bit about the td5 being foodsafe. After getting reassurance of it from the retailer. Now on to why I chose it over the chugger. It's lighter. It's quieter. It may be a bit slower but I don't mind. It's speed controllable by changing a setting knob on the back of it. And it's 12-24v. Which means I won't kill myself when I spill large amounts of water on it. and just like all my other ussolar pumps, I can mount it inline. So what if a chugger is 5 dollars more. This is the pump I wanted. And it didn't even exist in the ss model until I asked for it. I bought the first one ever made for testing and I loved it so I kept it. You don't have to buy it. But some people don't want to use a 110v pump. And this is the only thing that comes close to matching one on the 12v side.

 

[augiedoggy]

I just noticed that it appears the took the head casting from a chugger pump and mounted it on the pump... the mounting holes appear as if they would line right up from the pics.http://www.amazon.com/dp/B009Z1014A/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

it also appearsthere are two companies in china making the same pumps or they are manufacturing for each other to sell under their own names.

here you can see the tan ones I use sold as topsflo pumps. at least they have the "FDA" approval everyone was looking for earlier in the thread. unlike the stainless TD5? (possibly because its new to the market?)

http://www.buyneto.com/?ua=ncG1vJloZrCvp2OurbXEsaernaOoe6S7zGiqraeimnxyf5JraHFt
I have to say If it where me who had the choice between these little centrifugal pumps and a chugger for less I would take the chugger... these pumps are nice but they usually have a shorter lifespanwhen turned on and off often. They have no replacement parts and the fact that they are like half the power for more money AND require an additional power supply to function = additional costs...
Dont get me wrong I love my DC pumps they work great especially with my $6 pwm speed controllers the flow is just about perfect for my setup... But I use three permanently mounted pumps while brewing and have a 4th for a spare and they were under $20 shipped a piece... not $140...It would cost me over $400 to have the same functionality and ability to brew withour removing or changing any lines or pumps like I do...
I have no real desire to upgrade except if I had wanted to whirlpool but I use a stir bar for that.

That is a good point about no having AC near the brew but since I am an electric brewer that would be my least concern, plus I would use a GFCI outlet to avoid any problems...
I think if topsflo really wants to make these sell for this use they would need more competitive pricing...

wbarber69, I see your using your pump with a 12v power supply, In case you didnt notice the TD5 is a 24v pump that requires 17v (native voltage I believe from many solar panels including mine) to pump at the advertised capacity..(since the pump was originally for solar I believe its designed to boost the varying weaker voltage or buck it and create more working amps kind of like a MPPT solar charger) to use power directly from solar panels to power the pump (likely with a 555 chip). At 12v it appears it pumps closer to 3 gpm although the information is sketchy and different sites post different flow rates for the same pump. something to consider checking into if you find yourself looking for more power for things like whirl pooling.
theres a lot going on for sure in the circuitry of these pumps... hopefully that doesn't effect reliability much.

 

[wbarber69]

Well they do have somewhat competitive pricing. The td5 goes for 135 while the chugger goes for around 139. Lol

And the pump runs way faster than 3gpm. Even under the restrictions I have. It's not a 24v pump it is a 17v pump and it has some kind of bs in it that maximizes the rpms for whatever voltage goes into it. I can produce 12v at 10amps so power isn't a concern. All the pertinent info can be attained at the ussolarpumps.com website. Hell it even says its food grade, for what it's worth. One day I might get a chugger pump but for right now my brewery is mobile and lightweight wins the match.

 

[lapoltba]

Well they do have somewhat competitive pricing. The td5 goes for 135 while the chugger goes for around 139. Lol

And the pump runs way faster than 3gpm. Even under the restrictions I have. It's not a 24v pump it is a 17v pump and it has some kind of bs in it that maximizes the rpms for whatever voltage goes into it. I can produce 12v at 10amps so power isn't a concern. All the pertinent info can be attained at the ussolarpumps.com website. Hell it even says its food grade, for what it's worth. One day I might get a chugger pump but for right now my brewery is mobile and lightweight wins the match.

It's all relative and i'm pretty sure you were saying that "tongue in cheek". I don't really think it is competitive when you compare features and specifications. If the topsflo pump was 50-75% of the current asking price, maybe.... The fact that it is 24v (to me) is inconvenient. I am putting together an all electric setup, and like most people I will have 120VAC and 240VAC readily available. Adding another power supply just for the pumps doesn't make sense.

As said above already, there is no mention of replacement parts availability for these. Are we expected to just buy a new pump at $135 if it fails? At least he March or Chugger pumps have proven reliability and serviceability in a homebrewing application.

That being said, I may use one of the little tan pumps for recirculating hot water in my HLT at some point, but I probably won't use one of them for anything wort related.

Also, regarding this thread going around in circles... I did read a large majority of this thread and did not see any of the info I posted. I didn't see anywhere that someone posted that the pump cavity was ALL stainless and that was info I was looking for. These threads exist because we all have questions and are looking for answers. It is a place to discuss equipment and get the opinion of others. If you have the info you need and don't have anything further to contribute, no one is forcing you to be here. Yes, it would be nice to have a sticky with all the information consolidated, but unfortunately that isn't the case. The search function only goes so far and searching for minute details is sometimes difficult. Let's keep calm and keep the discussion going. It's great to have a community of knowledgeable people helping each other out. Cheers!

 

[augiedoggy]

I know without actual video footage its tough to get an impression of flow rate but the last picture on my flowmeter is flow after being pulled through the 10gallon batch grain bed and three layers of filtration as well as a rims tube and being pumped 3ft back up through the top cam lock on my mashtun...
I use stock 1/2 barbed cam lock hose fittings which would add a lot of restriction for a chugger..

When sparging the same flowmeter shows 2.2gpm...
This is with the 24v tan fda pumps.

 

[augiedoggy]

This pic gives a good indication of the plumbing. These are 16gallon and 13 gallon kettles.

 

[augiedoggy]

BTW this is the other NON foodgrade stainless headed pump that DOES NOT have a coated magnet and also a plastic lined magnet channel... I have the all plastic version of this very same pump (The pump I no longer use) I knew this existed and had mistaken the topsflo as being the same because some of the topsflo pumps use the exact same molded plastic body.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stainless-S...005&rk=5&rkt=6&mehot=pp&sd=190635868928&rt=nc

 

[nealm]

Auggie,
where do we find these $20 24v FDA compliant tan pumps. A search on ebay reveals a lot of them but none state they are made of FDA compliant materials or that they are food grade. Inquiring minds want to know.

With regard to the expensive ($70) Topsflo TS5 series pumps, are they not made of ABS. They are certainly black so is some black ABS food safe or is topsflo BSing us.

Nealm

 

[augiedoggy]

Auggie,
where do we find these $20 24v FDA compliant tan pumps. A search on ebay reveals a lot of them but none state they are made of FDA compliant materials or that they are food grade. Inquiring minds want to know.

With regard to the expensive ($70) Topsflo TS5 series pumps, are they not made of ABS. They are certainly black so is some black ABS food safe or is topsflo BSing us.

Nealm

I dont have a topsflo TS5 series pump I have a clone made by another manufactuer who states on thier site that they are ABS, (funny thing though is my pump is identical in every way on the outside to the 10w topsflo and even has the same MPPT solar power regulator in it.... HMM?)

the jury is still out until we get actual pictures of the magnet in a topsflo TD5 or TS5 series pump to see if they are in fact coated...
I assumed the tan ones are because this website http://www.buyneto.com/ had the tan version listed as fda approved while they do not have the ts5 or TD5 series they also sell listed as such...(they do state the TD5 is foodsafe though in the description because theres no lead in its construction) again... FOODSAFE likely has different standards in different countries... For example if you lived in canada You would need a prescription from your doctor to eat the amount of fortified vitamins and minerals general mills sprays onto to their cereal here in the states. and the McDonalds hamburger has more than 15% beef in them up there... Here its up to 85% "pink mush" from what the press reported recently.

all one has to do is dissassemble the tan one to see that it was clearly designed with food (drinking fountain) use in mind unlike the knock off black 10watt ts5 clone I have... which was designed for solar hot water heating as was the real ts5 series...
I also broke one of my tan ones and can tell you its NOT abs plastic. its a very dense brittle material compared to abs

Just search "FDA DC pump" on ebay or even youtube...I cant find it now but I had some references to it being made of food grade PPE or PPS plastic

 

[wbarber69]

The td5 has a plastic impeller in a sealed stainless head. The magnet channel does not come into contact with the wort. It is rated for 12-24v just like all the other pumps and it does a fantastic job at 12v. It shuts off if it's dry fired. It shuts off of the temps get too hot in the motor cavity. It is a bit expensive and I have begged them to lower the price but apparently it isn't cost effective. And as far as finding parts goes. If you break a part and email them. If the pump is under warranty they will replace any parts you need at ussolarpumps.com

 

[lapoltba]

The td5 has a plastic impeller in a sealed stainless head. The magnet channel does not come into contact with the wort. It is rated for 12-24v just like all the other pumps and it does a fantastic job at 12v. It shuts off if it's dry fired. It shuts off of the temps get too hot in the motor cavity. It is a bit expensive and I have begged them to lower the price but apparently it isn't cost effective. And as far as finding parts goes. If you break a part and email them. If the pump is under warranty they will replace any parts you need at ussolarpumps.com

How is the magnet sealed off from the wet side of things? I have yet to find pictures of this pump with the impeller/magnet removed. Is there a seal on the pump shaft behind the impeller?

 

[wbarber69]

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1422467127.771200.jpg

I'm not taking mine apart since the last time I did I broke the ceramic shaft and I intend on brewing this weekend. But here is info from the data sheet