Specialty IPA: White IPA Chainbreaker White IPA Clone

[KevinN]

Apologies, I have found this in BeerSmith and updated as nessesary. Sorry for the noise!

 

[saxowam]

So officially a house constant now after tuning in the recipe for our efficiency. Finally made a starter to save some on the side for the future and this thing is still going crazy after a week in the fermenter. Can hear a bubble almost every 2 seconds coming through the blow off tube. Can't wait for another 5 gallons of this to be ready.

 

[m1ke]

5 ml of lactic acid is an ass and a half load. For just adjusting the mash ph, I normally use about 1.5ml for about 32L of water. Are you tossing it in during mash or adding it in just before the boil?

The 5 ml of lactic acid was added directly to the mash and produced some noticeable sourness. I haven't tried this recipe without the lactic acid, but I can imagine it might lack some complexity.

I'm planning to brew this again soon, but doubt that I'll modify the recipe at all... it seemed very close to Chainbreaker, IMHO.

 

[highgravitybacon]

The 5 ml of lactic acid was added directly to the mash and produced some noticeable sourness. I haven't tried this recipe without the lactic acid, but I can imagine it might lack some complexity.

I'm planning to brew this again soon, but doubt that I'll modify the recipe at all... it seemed very close to Chainbreaker, IMHO.

Thank you for clarifying.

 

[telp]

Brewed this recipe yesterday. I had to make a couple substitutions. I could not find Bravo hops so I replaced them with Australian Galaxy hops. I was also unable to find the lactic acid. Besides that, the process went quite smoothly. This was my first recipe where I took the reigns and it was a lot of fun! Definitely one of the harder brews I've tried and I can't wait to taste the final product. Thanks for posting this recipe !

 

[Marc77]

The lactic acid portion is quite interesting. From what I've read (and I may be and probably am wrong) lactic acid will keep doing it's work on making a beer sour until the bacteria is killed with the boil.

If that part is true here's what I find interesting. Depending on how fast or slow each brewer gets his wort to that degree where the bacteria is killed a different level of sour will be achieved for each brewer.

Example:
Brewer A has his propane burner right up next to his kettle and uses 5 mL of lactic acid but gets his wort up to boil in say twenty minutes.

Brewer B has his propane burner lower than A and is using a keggle which raises the height even more. Because of this his wort doesn't come to a boil until an hour has passed.

Now if I'm right they've both used the same amount of lactic acid but brewer B's beer will have more of a sour taste?

Saxo would you mind posting your final recipe? I'd be curious to see someone's recipe that's kind of combined both of the original. I'll be making a 10 gallon batch of this...well more like 11 but whatever.

 

[Coff]

The lactic acid portion is quite interesting. From what I've read (and I may be and probably am wrong) lactic acid will keep doing it's work on making a beer sour until the bacteria is killed with the boil. If that part is true here's what I find interesting. Depending on how fast or slow each brewer gets his wort to that degree where the bacteria is killed a different level of sour will be achieved for each brewer. Example: Brewer A has his propane burner right up next to his kettle and uses 5 mL of lactic acid but gets his wort up to boil in say twenty minutes. Brewer B has his propane burner lower than A and is using a keggle which raises the height even more. Because of this his wort doesn't come to a boil until an hour has passed. Now if I'm right they've both used the same amount of lactic acid but brewer B's beer will have more of a sour taste? Saxo would you mind posting your final recipe? I'd be curious to see someone's recipe that's kind of combined both of the original. I'll be making a 10 gallon batch of this...well more like 11 but whatever.

I think you're thinking about Lactobacillus, which lives on the outside of grain in every beer. The difference in a few minutes doesn't make a difference in if the beer is sour or not, it would take 2-3 days for the beer to really sour, see sour mash.

In my batch I didn't use the Lactic acid and loved the beer, 5ml seems like a lot if only for adjusting mash PH but I would guess that was the original reason for it. I don't get any sourness in the commercial version.

 

[midfielder5]

Lactic acid won't make a beer more sour with more time. You are confusing it with lactobasillus, which like the poster above me stated, is present on grain and you can sour the mash if you don't bring it to a boil within a certain amount of time. The time before souring starts depends on how long the wort is allowed get below around 120-130 (? not sure) degrees.

 

[Marc77]

Interesting. I'm still getting into the all grain as I'm in the final stages of setting up my MLT and boil kettle to handle 10 gallon batches. No WAY am I trying to lift a 20 gallon pot with 10 gallons of boiling wort!

Coff, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on doing a protein rest for the White Malt. The one I'm looking at using is from midwest supplies and says that it requires a protein rest in the mash. I was thinking I could do a protein rest at 125f for 45-60 minutes and sparge your 152f for 60 minutes. But how long did you do your 168f sparge for? I know it says to full boil volume and then do a 90 minute boil. But were you fly sparging? Is it another 60 minutes (I'd be batch sparging).

Thoughts?

 

[Woodbrews]

Has anyone tried this as a BIAB? I'm wondering how BIAB would affect the step mash.

 

[telp]

Has anyone tried this as a BIAB? I'm wondering how BIAB would affect the step mash.

Mine was done BIAB. For step mashes I put the grain in to get to the lowest temperature and then for stepping to the next temperature, I didn't count that as part of the time spent at each temperature. I only counted the time once I arrived at the temperature it was supposed to be at.

I'm not sure if this is how it is supposed to be done but it turned out great for me. In my narrow scope of knowledge it makes sense because the temperatures are very specific and for the proteins to be extracted, it needs to spend the allotted time at those temperatures. The one thing I'm not sure about is whether the extra time spent trying to get up to those temperatures is bad...

 

[SaguaroMan]

This will be my next batch, would love to have this for summer!

 

[fosaisu]

In my batch I didn't use the Lactic acid and loved the beer, 5ml seems like a lot if only for adjusting mash PH but I would guess that was the original reason for it. I don't get any sourness in the commercial version.

I think the lactic acid adds a necessary "citrus" quality to the final beer (which I guess could be characterized as a very mild sourness). I initially brewed mine without lactic acid, and it was definitely missing something when tasted side by side with the commercial brew. I added several mls of lactic acid to my keg and that brought mine much closer to the commercial version. Next time I brew this I'm going to start with 4 ml lactic/5 gallons beer.

 

[Joon75]

I'm going to brew this today going the BIAB route. Can I do step infusion with biab? How would I do a step infusion? Or should I just do a single step infusion?


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[Kelpdog]

BIAB method for step mashing depends on how you control mash temperature. If you are heating on a stove just use the burner to slowly raise to desired temp and maintain as normal. You can do an infusion by adding a calculated volume of boiling water. This will thin the mash so I usually start with a thick mash when doing this method. Use a calculator like this one http://www.brewersfriend.com/mash/ to find the proper volumes.

I'm drinking my latest version of this beer, though I've strayed from the clone. I couldn't be more pleased with the outcome. I did it as a partigyle (split batch) with the first runnings as a strong white ipa and the second as a tart cherry wit. The ipa came in a full point+ stronger than intended at 7.5% and likewise the cherry wit came in about a point lower at 3.25%. I added 6% flaked oats, upped the wheat to +/-35%, subbed Galaxy for the Citra hops, used the lactic acid, and added lemongrass and sage in the last five minutes of boil. I keep getting great reviews, many referring to it as a nice light summery beer - then people are shocked to learn the ABV.

 

[saxowam]

Saxo would you mind posting your final recipe? I'd be curious to see someone's recipe that's kind of combined both of the original. I'll be making a 10 gallon batch of this...well more like 11 but whatever.

Sorry meant to post this a long time ago but never got around to it.

Chainbreaker recipe
11 gallon batch

17lbs 8 oz Belgian Pilsner (2 SRM)
5 lbs White Wheat Malt
2 lbs Flaked Wheat
10 ml lactic acid in mash

0.75 oz Falconer’s Flight [10.5% AA] First wort addition

1 oz Bravo [15.5% AA] 60 minutes

0.5 oz Cascade [5.5% AA] 15 minutes
0.5 oz Centennial [10% AA] 15 minutes
0.5 oz Citra [12% AA] 15 minutes

0.5 oz Cascade [5.5% AA] 5 minutes
0.5 oz Centennial [10% AA] 5 minutes
0.5 oz Citra [12% AA] 5 minutes
1.5 oz Coriander Seed 5 minutes
1.5 oz Sweet orange peel 5 minutes

WLP400 – Belgian Wit Ale

1 oz Cascade [5.5% AA] dry hop 7 days
1 oz Centennial [10% AA] dry hop 7 days
1 oz Citra [12% AA] dry hop 7 days

Mash Schedule:
Step 1) 125 F 15 minutes
Step 2) 145 F 15 minutes
Step 3) 163 F 20 minutes
Mash Out 172 F 10 minutes

Can also do mash just at 152 F for 60 minutes to reduce time and potential burns from boiling water, though misses the mouthfeel a little if you do this.

Ferment till most fermentation is complete (5 days to a week) at 65 degrees, Ramp up to 74 F for several days

 

[ndinh]

I have a newbie question regarding step mashing. I'm using the igloo MLT and just plugged in the mash temp numbers into the calculations. If I'm batch sparging, when do I vorlauf and drain for first runnings (after the 163F for 20min?) I'm assuming the 172F for 10 min is my sparge water. Thx.

 

[saxowam]

I have a newbie question regarding step mashing. I'm using the igloo MLT and just plugged in the mash temp numbers into the calculations. If I'm batch sparging, when do I vorlauf and drain for first runnings (after the 163F for 20min?) I'm assuming the 172F for 10 min is my sparge water. Thx.

ndinh,
You are completely right. Vorlauf and drain first runnings after the 163F for 20 minutes. Then sparge with 172F for 10 minutes. Hope this got to you in time or you just went and did it this way.
Best,
Saxowam

 

[Shenanigans]

I would like to brew this mashing at just one temperature.
Would it still turn out decent and if yes what would be the recommended temperature?

Thanks!

 

[saxowam]

I would mash at 152 if you want to do just one temp. It still turns out great with a single temp mash, just misses some of the small nuances.

 

[Shenanigans]

I would mash at 152 if you want to do just one temp. It still turns out great with a single temp mash, just misses some of the small nuances.

OK thanks for the quick reply.
This is the perfect recipe for me to use up a lot pilsner and wheat malt/flakes I have lying around here a while (been brewing too many normal IPAs).
The hop bill also fits perfect with what I have available.

Hopefully I can get it ready for drinking before Christmas.

 

[Shenanigans]

I'll probably brew this around the start of December so just a few more questions
Does this beer last well? A traditional Witbier is best drunk fresh (within 6 to 8 weeks).
There's no way I'd drink 11 gallons that quick. I could brew only 5 but I don't get to brew a lot so when I do I'd like to brew as big a batch as possible. I'll probably split it and use two different yeasts and hop schedules - possibly add a mini mash with some cara and/or chocolate wheat so that I get two totally different beers.

Secondly I'll be doing it in a cooler starting with a thick mash and I would just about manage to fit in all the water needed for the steps except for the mash out. Is the mash out really necessary before draining or could I just drain and then mash out with the first batch sparge?
I've lautered before with such a pilsner/wheat ratio without a mash out and there was no problems.

Finally maybe I'm overlooking something but it appears you are all only boiling the wort for 60 mins.
Does that not run the risk of DMS with so much Pilsner malt?
Or is it a 90 min boil and the Bravo is only added after 30 mins?

Thanks!

 

[saxowam]

Does this beer last well? A traditional Witbier is best drunk fresh (within 6 to 8 weeks).
I'll probably split it and use two different yeasts and hop schedules - possibly add a mini mash with some cara and/or chocolate wheat so that I get two totally different beers.

Is the mash out really necessary before draining or could I just drain and then mash out with the first batch sparge?

Finally maybe I'm overlooking something but it appears you are all only boiling the wort for 60 mins.
Does that not run the risk of DMS with so much Pilsner malt?
Or is it a 90 min boil and the Bravo is only added after 30 mins?

Thanks!

I can't really comment on the longevity of the beer as people flock to my house when they hear it is ready to drink and the SWMBO and I also drink it quickly as it's one of our favorite. I would expect the hop profile to disappear first. You will definitely find yourself finishing a few of these at a time without realizing it, so it goes quickly.

The chocolate sounds like a great idea to make this more of a winter beer, and maybe adding a slight hint of peppermint could tie it all together :cross: . Just a thought. Go pick up a Chainbreaker and think about it.

I would just drain and then mash out with sparge. I have done both ways and it doesn't really matter.

I do a 60 min boil and don't notice any significant DMS and neither does the wifey who's becoming a much better judge than me quickly. Miserable woman with much better palate.

Brewing this today as need a beer quickly since almost ran out of everything thanks to Halloween.

Enjoy!

 

[Shenanigans]

I can't really comment on the longevity of the beer as people flock to my house when they hear it is ready to drink and the SWMBO and I also drink it quickly as it's one of our favorite. I would expect the hop profile to disappear first. You will definitely find yourself finishing a few of these at a time without realizing it, so it goes quickly.

The chocolate sounds like a great idea to make this more of a winter beer, and maybe adding a slight hint of peppermint could tie it all together :cross: . Just a thought. Go pick up a Chainbreaker and think about it.

I would just drain and then mash out with sparge. I have done both ways and it doesn't really matter.

I do a 60 min boil and don't notice any significant DMS and neither does the wifey who's becoming a much better judge than me quickly. Miserable woman with much better palate.

Brewing this today as need a beer quickly since almost ran out of everything thanks to Halloween.

Enjoy!

Great thanks for the information.

Unfortunately I don't have Chainbreaker here as I live in Europe.
However I've been messing around a bit with the recipe for the second beer.
I will just make it an Imperial White IPA by adding the wort from a minimash with more Pilsner/wheat and maybe come carwheat to add more depth. To make it even more different I'll go with a neutral yeast (probably US-05). Bitter with Columbus, flavor and aroma with Chinook, Centennial and Galaxy and dry hop with a few ounces each of Amarillo and Simcoe.

I have about 1lb of Summit hops I want to use but I'm not sure if I could sub them in there instead of one of the other hops. I've only ever used them once in an American stout so it's difficult for me to say if they would work in a white IPA.

 

[saxowam]

I think the summit might produce some flavors that would not be very desirable in this beer so I would avoid it unless you use it for bittering. The beer gets a lot of the excitement from the hops so I think the onion/garlic flavors of summit may dominate if used later in the boil. Just my two cents.

 

[Shenanigans]

I think the summit might produce some flavors that would not be very desirable in this beer so I would avoid it unless you use it for bittering. The beer gets a lot of the excitement from the hops so I think the onion/garlic flavors of summit may dominate if used later in the boil. Just my two cents.

OK, thanks again for sharing your experience.
I'll have to figure out another way of using up the Summit - maybe a Sacred Summit Ale.

I might give it go with the chocolate/dark wheat beer but I'll stop hijacking this thread with that and open a separate one

 

[saxowam]

OK, thanks again for sharing your experience.
I'll have to figure out another way of using up the Summit - maybe a Sacred Summit Ale.

I might give it go with the chocolate/dark wheat beer but I'll stop hijacking this thread with that and open a separate one

No problem and please share here as well with the results of the chocolate/dark wheat beer. Very interested to hear how it comes out.

 

[Shenanigans]

No problem and please share here as well with the results of the chocolate/dark wheat beer. Very interested to hear how it comes out.

So about 2.5 weeks ago I brewed the White IPA and the dark wheat together.
I've reported on the dark wheat here:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/dark-american-wheat-beer-500526/#post6583228

For the white IPA I used Columbus instead of Bravo and 8oz of Acid Malt instead of the Lactic Acid (hope it was enough).
I also used bitter orange peel instead of sweet orange peel.

I got an OG of 1.066, measured a sample two days ago and it is at 1.009; so looks like it's finished. I used a Witbier yeast starting at 68 F and slowly rising to 80 F. I'll take another sample tonight and if it hasn't changed I'll take it out of the fermentation chamber and dry hop it at room temperature for a few days before bottling.

Doesn't taste very exciting at the moment but hopefully that will change once it is fully carbed and chilled.
I don't think many beers taste good flat and at 80 F.

 

[Shenanigans]

Just wanted to report back.
Two weeks in the bottle and this beer tastes freakin great :rockin:
One of the best beers I have ever brewed (from about 30 batches).
Only problem is I can't stop drinking it, I'm like a child with lemonade
You would never guess it is over 7.5%

First beer I didn't chill with my emersion chiller too - just let it cool outside overnight.

 

[tellyho]

Planning on this for my next brew and wondering if I can substitute citric acid for the lactic?