"Cereal Killer" grain mill
- Thread starter sandsquirt
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
for the money you can't beat them
as for lasting forever probably not happening
but then again everything dies
S_M
as for lasting forever probably not happening
but then again everything dies
S_M
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
mine works great
I'm used to setting tappets on my motorcycle where .0005 makes a difference so I suppose I'm a bit sensitive with feelers.
The crusher works fine, I'm not arguing that. I'm only reporting my findings. Considering my available funds I have no regrets with my decision to go with cereal killer.
I had set mine to recommend settings, but the grain I had was inconsistent. I ended up adjusting it by my crush rather than feelers. I had to fight the (batch) sparge. I blame this on the grain, not the crusher because I had to over crush the larger grains. I'm considering building an adjustable shaker to deal with poor quality grain mixes. It's just too damn cheap to pass up.
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The crusher works fine, I'm not arguing that. I'm only reporting my findings. Considering my available funds I have no regrets with my decision to go with cereal killer.
I had set mine to recommend settings, but the grain I had was inconsistent. I ended up adjusting it by my crush rather than feelers. I had to fight the (batch) sparge. I blame this on the grain, not the crusher because I had to over crush the larger grains. I'm considering building an adjustable shaker to deal with poor quality grain mixes. It's just too damn cheap to pass up.
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I didn't gap it with feelers. At first I gapped out@ .037, but not all the grain was being crushed so I simply gauged it by crush. It is really easy to change the gap on this model. I did another brew today with some more consistent malt. I gapped it by crush again because this grain was plumper and the previous setting was too tight. The crush was more consistent (as expected) this time around. Sparge was a little slow but went well. Hit 82% with help from careful measurements and precise infusion calculations.
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Sent from my SCH-R970 using Home Brew mobile app
I don't really see why what gap is used is so important to everyone. I realize that there is an optimum range, but the product is a result of the size of the grain in reference to the gap. It would make more sense to refer to the gaping as a percentage of the average size kernel in a batch. Any maltster worth their salt will make sure to screen grain to ensure equal sized kernels in a bag. The lesser maltster may mix different qualities to the extreme to make more product with less. It's fine for the big guys, who have sorting screens with multiple crushers, but we only have a single dual roller (most of us). I'm going to ask what brand that crap was last batch. It was something British.
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Sent from my SCH-R970 using Home Brew mobile app
Well, I made the mistake of keeping mine. I've run probably 40 batches thru it. The biggest problem I have is getting the idler roller to turn. It's a major source of frustration. I end up reaching underneath and giving it a spin with my fingers to get it started. The roller spins freely wo grain but fill the hopper with grain and engage the drill and only the driven roller turns. Reaching underneath and giving it a spin with my fingertips will get it turning for anywhere from a brief second to maybe a half a minute or so. I was ready to throw it up against the wall this weekend. The slop in the bushings has only gotten worse. Ive blown compressed air into the bushings in an attempt to clear them out and this helps sometimes. I've regapped the gap all over the map and .055 seems to be the point where if cracks the grain but doesn't turn it into flower. I notice a name and number branded into the bottom of the base so i called the poor guy Sunday morning to share my frustration only to find out he only makes the wood bases not the mill. He told me he no longer puts his name on them due to all the complaint calls he's received.
I really enjoy the time i spend brewing beer. It's my oasis... It's my time to do something i enjoy. This mill has been a source of frustration since day one. I thought it was due to my inexperience. I've booked 64 brew days to date so I think we can rule out the experience factor. My mill is truly a POS. Maybe the quality is better now? IDK, I've had mine for a few years. This last brew day was the worst. I actually have a blister on the end of my finger from trying to get the idler roller to spin by reaching underneath and spinning it with my finger tips. I'm done with it.
I will email the place I bought it and ask them if they want it back on trade for a different mill. if they do anything I'll report back.
My advice to anyone looking to buy one of these is talk to some one that has bought one recently and has run 5 or 10 batches thru it....
There you have it....
Happy brewing....
I really enjoy the time i spend brewing beer. It's my oasis... It's my time to do something i enjoy. This mill has been a source of frustration since day one. I thought it was due to my inexperience. I've booked 64 brew days to date so I think we can rule out the experience factor. My mill is truly a POS. Maybe the quality is better now? IDK, I've had mine for a few years. This last brew day was the worst. I actually have a blister on the end of my finger from trying to get the idler roller to spin by reaching underneath and spinning it with my finger tips. I'm done with it.
I will email the place I bought it and ask them if they want it back on trade for a different mill. if they do anything I'll report back.
My advice to anyone looking to buy one of these is talk to some one that has bought one recently and has run 5 or 10 batches thru it....
There you have it....
Happy brewing....
Also, the adjustment is miserable. Tightening the thumbscrews causes the roller to shift so much the it locks the feeler gauge in place. I realize i could measure the slop but what's the point? It's play in all four bushings. I imagine the grain forces the gap to its largest but I've always wondered why others talk a bout gaps in the .030" range and I'm at .055"?
I also notice that the knurled peaks on my rollers are non existent. They are flat. Looks like someone used a flat file on the rollers after they knurled it and removed the peaks.
Maybe I just got an early unit? An initial prototype? who knows but its junk.....
I also notice that the knurled peaks on my rollers are non existent. They are flat. Looks like someone used a flat file on the rollers after they knurled it and removed the peaks.
Maybe I just got an early unit? An initial prototype? who knows but its junk.....
Nckellys looks like you got a short straw. I have mine for 7 batches. At 0.035 seems a bit tight but I hit efficiency every time. Never adjusted it once I set it.
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Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Home Brew mobile app
Might have one of the older models... According to the site they improved it over the last few years. Just like the xbox and ps you want to wait for a bit before buying to get the bugs worked out or it's a red ring of death. using mine this week at .035 gap.
Sent from my SGH-T769 using Home Brew mobile app
Sent from my SGH-T769 using Home Brew mobile app
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
They are a completely different product now.... better crank handle, ball bearings instead of bushings and true rollers.... the early ones were trying to copy the other popular selling grain mill at the time with bushings and such...some of the rollers were very out of round back then too... I have one I ordered in decaember during a $99 free shipping sale and theres no name stamped in the wood base...I have only used it a few times but even by hand its worked great so far...and it does have ball bearings pressed into the aluminum from the inside.... I imagine I will have to oil these for long life and many dont think about the fact that the malt powder can be rough on bushings and bearings...
of course this has all been covered here before if you use the search tool...(just saying if your really interested in answers thats the fastest and best method)
Loodachris
12th man loud and proud!
I just got mine back in December and I am having the exact same problem. This was the second time I have used it and frustrating for sure. When it does work it works well and I have a better crush at .35 then whatever my lhbs has theirs set to. Going to email them today and see what to do. I can imagine shipping it back will be expensive and should of just went with a better quality mill out the box the first time. Live and learn I guess.
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
Curious where did you buy yours that you got an old one with bushings instead of bearings in december?
Loodachris
12th man loud and proud!
Adventures in homebrewing is where I got mine. I didn't state which style I have because I don't know I just stated I am having the same problem with mine is all. 
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
ahh same place I got mine at the same time... I should hope you dont have the same sloppy loose bushing problem as stated by others since if yours is the same as mine you have ballbearings and no bushings. sticky rollers could be from contamination getting where is should go which could be a build issue. I have zero play in mine so far...Adventures in homebrewing is where I got mine. I didn't state which style I have because I don't know I just stated I am having the same problem with mine is all.
Loodachris
12th man loud and proud!
Invoice says I ordered it on 1/5/14 so hope it just needs to be "broken in" or something. I sent them an email so i'll have to wait and see.
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
the old ones also had short pitiful crank handles. they sold the longer ones as an extra fee upgrade for a while but the one I got is pretty long and works well.
One of these days I'll wire up a motor from my box of gear reduction motors in the garage.
One of these days I'll wire up a motor from my box of gear reduction motors in the garage.
danorocks17
Well-Known Member
Just got a Cereal Killer today for my birthday from my wife. I"m excited to use it!!
Interesting.... If they went from brass bushings to bearings then that would be a major improvement. I took a close look at mine and the bushings were worn badly. The drive roller bushings were actually elongated horizontally.... probably due to the side loading caused by the grain passing between the rollers.
I contacted Adventures in Homebrewing where I bought mine and Jason said send it back. He also told me they had not changed the design? But if bearings are used then there has been a change?
Anyway, I have to give Adventures in Homebrewing credit for allowing me to send it back. They said they will repair or replace. We'll see what comes of it. I will post the outcome.
So I just sent the mill back and was able to squeeze it (just barely) into the smallest flat rate USPS priority box. The box was actually deformed slightly by the bulk of the mill but i rapped and re rapped it in clear packing tape. There was no room for any packing in the box but I figured it was pretty much trashed already. I just wanted to get it back in their hands. Shipping was $6.
I have to admit I haven’t really followed this tread. I am surprised to read of bearings being used instead of the brass bushings. I think if that's the case then that was a major improvement and as long as the bearing bores are size correctly so the bearing spin freely without binding then this mill has potential. I would think the only other concern would be the that the roller knurling is aggressive enough to pull the grain thru and turn the free roller.
It's frustrating as H*LL to have the hopper full of grain only to realize the free roller isnt spinning.
I'll post what I hear back from Adventures in Homebrewing.
Happy Milling!
I contacted Adventures in Homebrewing where I bought mine and Jason said send it back. He also told me they had not changed the design? But if bearings are used then there has been a change?
Anyway, I have to give Adventures in Homebrewing credit for allowing me to send it back. They said they will repair or replace. We'll see what comes of it. I will post the outcome.
So I just sent the mill back and was able to squeeze it (just barely) into the smallest flat rate USPS priority box. The box was actually deformed slightly by the bulk of the mill but i rapped and re rapped it in clear packing tape. There was no room for any packing in the box but I figured it was pretty much trashed already. I just wanted to get it back in their hands. Shipping was $6.
I have to admit I haven’t really followed this tread. I am surprised to read of bearings being used instead of the brass bushings. I think if that's the case then that was a major improvement and as long as the bearing bores are size correctly so the bearing spin freely without binding then this mill has potential. I would think the only other concern would be the that the roller knurling is aggressive enough to pull the grain thru and turn the free roller.
It's frustrating as H*LL to have the hopper full of grain only to realize the free roller isnt spinning.
I'll post what I hear back from Adventures in Homebrewing.
Happy Milling!
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
yup go back and start reading this thread from the last post on page 8.... or check out this tear down thread with pics.... its old so there may have been more changes... its build quality in many ways is actually superior in design to the barley crusher (uses bushings) which will upset some people for sure since the latter is an American made product and these are made in china... Oh well... stereotypes are not always true..
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/just-got-new-cereal-killer-grain-mill-341900/index2.html they now ship with a longer handle than mentioned in many of the posts in these threads.
Ya I messed with it slightly but ended at .035.
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Loodachris
12th man loud and proud!
I contacted Adventures in Homebrewing about the problem and he said to send it back but more often then not it's not a defect so they can't refynd ne for the return shipping. If the idle roller on the mill after the first time using it fails to work properly that would mean it's defective right? My gap is set at .35 with a feeler gauge on both ends but would that make it a bit too tight for the rollers to stop spinning? The crush looked good to me and I hit all my numbers unlike with the crush I get from the lhbs where I usually am off a few points
My efficiency went down to 64... From 70. Think I might have had a slight stuck sparge. The water pooled on top a little bit in the end of the runnings. I hit all my temps too. Oh well it will still be beer in the end. I might go back to running the batch sparge out slow too. I tried it fast this time to see what would happen.
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Sent from my SGH-T769 using Home Brew mobile app
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
my crush is a lot finer than your pics and never had a stuck sparge....and I recirculate with a herms setup... I use doubled up screens though... and the inner screen tube is finer than the outer one to double filter...I get anywhere for 75-85% on average so far on last 7 brews.
hm, maybe it was a mix of factors... I'm going to back it off slightly though and see if that helps on the next run. I just have to stick with that works and when I start messing with things like running fast or slow then it screws up my whole system ha...
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
yes speed of flow has a large impact.... in case you didnt know also when starting the pump be sure to restrict the flow before turning the pump on. Then slowly increase speed.
No pump I batch, couple guys on here just open the valve and let it go... I alway just open a little and let it drain slowly. Tried the open and let it rip, going back to slow.
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
the type of false bottom or bazooka tube will have the biggest effect here as you probably already know.
sorry
the type of false bottom or bazooka tube will have the biggest effect here as you probably already know.
sorry
Ya using bazooka tube, previously worked very well. I up'd my mill to .037, local shop has .039 and default setting on the mill is .038
Epimetheus
Well-Known Member
It may be jargon, but could someone explain what is a
"toilet screen in a cooler"
so I can scrub this unfortunate image out of my brain?
Some people make a bazooka out of a toilet supply line. Remove the innards and keep the screen.
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So i use a water supply line(not toilet screen). All it is is a stainless braided outer sheath. Crimp one end and it works better than the bazooka screen IMO. I just goto a thrift store and buy the line for .50 cents. Much cheaper that way.
For the post about sparging. I have tried it several ways and the brewery next door to me told me to slow it down as much as possible. Now a 10g batch takes 75 mins to collect enough wort and ive seen my numbers go up.
I just ordered a Cereal Killer mill. Hope i dont have any problems.
For the post about sparging. I have tried it several ways and the brewery next door to me told me to slow it down as much as possible. Now a 10g batch takes 75 mins to collect enough wort and ive seen my numbers go up.
I just ordered a Cereal Killer mill. Hope i dont have any problems.
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
actually the ideal setup would be to put the water supply line inside of the bazooka tube as a double filter...I use a fine copper mesh tube inside of the bazooka tube and I have never had even the slightest amount of a stuck sparge in 6 brews...
I just used mine for the first time. I was using a motorized corona mill before and getting about 80 to 82% into the kettle on IPAs and IIPAs. Did a lower gravity brew this time, and there were some other lautering variables, but the efficiency was more like 90%. May need to check the final runnings pH and possibly open up the gap to avoid tannin extraction.
We used the handle, which was so quick I may not bother with hooking up a drill. Crush appears better than the Corona mill - no tearing.
Those whose non-driven roller sticks should send it back or disassemble it to see what's wrong and fix the binding, if possible. (IMHO) these aren't monster mills and probably won't last a lifetime of heavy use, but you ought to get value from them.
On a side note, I noticed another vendor selling what appears to be the same BC Chinese knockoff. Whether it has ball bearings or not, I can't say. But it looks identical and sells for the same price.
We used the handle, which was so quick I may not bother with hooking up a drill. Crush appears better than the Corona mill - no tearing.
Those whose non-driven roller sticks should send it back or disassemble it to see what's wrong and fix the binding, if possible. (IMHO) these aren't monster mills and probably won't last a lifetime of heavy use, but you ought to get value from them.
On a side note, I noticed another vendor selling what appears to be the same BC Chinese knockoff. Whether it has ball bearings or not, I can't say. But it looks identical and sells for the same price.
