Cells needed is more than 1 step but less than 2

[indianajns]

Making my first HG ale this weekend. It will be a DIPA OG of 1.071. I've been checking all of the yeast calculators and it seems the number of yeast cells I need are more than a single step but less than a 2 step. I need 360 billion cells for a 5.5 gallon batch. I have 1 vial of WLP001 with a viability of 80% so I have 80.2 billion cells. First step has me at 214 billion with a 1 liter starter at 1.037 gravity. Step 2 takes me to 428 Billion cells with a 1 liter step. I'm concerned about overpitching. It seems like I am either way under with 1 step or way over with 2 steps. Any suggestions to get me close to 360 billion when I'm starting with 80.2 billion? Thanks!

 

[flars]

Don't worry about over pitching. It is hard to damage a beer by over pitching. It is easy to damage a beer by under pitching.

If you really want to get close to the estimated pitch rate, make step two less than two liters for a lower growth rate.

The yeast is less stressed if the growth rate is over 1.0 though.


http://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/

 

[D-Train]

360 cells seems too high according to all of the calculators I've seen. Are you also trying to save some yeast off your starter?

 

[indianajns]

Based on this calculator: http://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/ I chose ProBrewer 1.0 as target pitch rate as my DIPA I would assume is a High Gravity ale. The result when I choose this pitch rate is 360 billion. Should I choose a different pitch rate from this tool?

 

[smcinco]

You could just bump up the gravity a bit.

 

[flars]

Based on this calculator: http://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/ I chose ProBrewer 1.0 as target pitch rate as my DIPA I would assume is a High Gravity ale. The result when I choose this pitch rate is 360 billion. Should I choose a different pitch rate from this tool?

That is the pitch rate I would use for a 1.071 beer. Lower pitch rates may result in not bringing out the full flavor potential of the yeast and recipe. Also there is the dreaded stuck fermentation from poor aeration and to low of a pitch rate.

 

[trentm]

I'm not to good at math but my calculations say that 360 billion is right at 77% of 428 billion. If you really want to hit 360 billion on the head just poor off 460ml of your starter before you pitch or cold crash. You could save that for a week or so to grow up a new starter, give it to a friend, or down the drain. It's only pint of wort. On the other hand, yeast calculators are a rough estimate. The environmental conditions the starter is exposed to (oxygen, temp) will lead to tremendous variations. Over-pitching a bit in a clean beer like a DIPA should not be a problem but under-pitching a big beer like that could lead to huge problems.

 

[helibrewer]

I would overpitch, I figure I am much more prone to have an under-performing starter than an over-performing one and I use O2 and nutrient.

 

[jbaysurfer]

Mr. Malty says 270B cells for that beer. 1 step. 2L no stir plate starter (Growler sized). I don't think you need to do two steps, and in fact I've done dozens of beers in that same range, many of them DIPAs and never had to do two steps when starting from a vial.

It won't be a big deal to overpitch 100M cells or so in a beer that sized, but if you're using the most cell hungry model/calculator out there to start with...I'd probably take that into consideration.

 

[D-Train]

Yeah for whatever reason the brewer's friend calculator is advising a 1.0 rate (MrMalty is at 0.75) for big ale's even though gravity/plato is already part of the equation. I guess I just always used the 0.75 default for ales. In any case, why limit yourself to a fixed size starter? Even if you want 360 billion cells, why not make a smaller starter and then step it up to a larger starter? You can figure out the right sizes of each starter to get the desired pitch rate.

 

[indianajns]

Getting too close to brewday Sunday at this point so I'm gonna stop on the way home from work and pick up another vial of CalAle. So with the 2nd vial I only need to do a one step starter which at 1.5 L will get me 406 Billion. Based on all of your comments on this post I'm not going to stress out about some of the other posts I have read regarding overpitching and off flavors. Also, what gravity of starters are ya'll using now adays? I've ready anywhere from 1.030 to 1040. An article in my most recent Zymurgy mag said to go with 1.030 so I'm thinking about targeting there when in the past I have always built my starters at 1.040.

 

[jbaysurfer]

1.035-1.040 depending on how much I boil off when I'm making it...