Cellared Beer Reviews

[Barroomhero]

Was kinda funny... the bottle was given to me rather quickly and without a clear explanation of what it was. "Here, this is one of the old Julios collabs. I think it was from '06". Friend (& distro rep, ex-employee) was in a rush I guess. I figured I'd bring it home and check it out, maybe it's worthwhile. Good thing I mentioned it to store manager, who did a jaw-dropped double take.
"WHICH ONE?!?!"

Glad I didn't open it solo, as this was something that obviously was proper shared with Julios employees. And, Julios was having it's big MA Brewers Fest that day (past Sunday), so I actually got to pass on a pour to the current Berkshire rep.

proper.

 

[matedog]

A few follow ups from the honeymoon:

2009 LPK: 2007 sticker. Bright cherries, mild sour. Tons of funk. ******* awesome.
2005 3F Gueuze: Grassy, mineral-y. Not super sour, but very funky.

The Piece De Resistance:

1997 3F Gueuze: side by side with a relatively fresh bottle which I have been dying to do. Mild oxidation, grassiness is gone. Round light sweetness, softer. Less sour and crisp. Solid carb.

 

[tosh1]

Was kinda funny... the bottle was given to me rather quickly and without a clear explanation of what it was. "Here, this is one of the old Julios collabs. I think it was from '06". Friend (& distro rep, ex-employee) was in a rush I guess. I figured I'd bring it home and check it out, maybe it's worthwhile. Good thing I mentioned it to store manager, who did a jaw-dropped double take.
"WHICH ONE?!?!"

Glad I didn't open it solo, as this was something that obviously was proper shared with Julios employees. And, Julios was having it's big MA Brewers Fest that day (past Sunday), so I actually got to pass on a pour to the current Berkshire rep.

proper.

One in my box?

Don't answer that...i kow the answer.

Sadface.gif

 

[Number45]

Had a 2012 Courage RIS a couple nights ago. First time having this beer, and I thought it was great. Tons of dark fruits and chocolate. Zero bitterness. Just starting to get that rounded, soft feel from sitting for a few years. No cardboard, etc. yet.

I know these were legendary in the old days for being able to age basically forever. But I think it's more recently brewed by someone else using the same recipe? Something like that, I'm sure someone here knows more.

But, nothing I found in the 2012 bottle I had gives me any indication it's going downhill soon. There's more 2012 bottles in my bottle shop too for like $4 each, might have to grab a few more to tuck away for a while. Cheap cellaring experiment.

 

[stakem1]

Oh man, nice throwback. That beer was pretty spectacular last time I had it in 2010 or so (alongside the then-fresh Gude Greg’s... wonder how that's doing), very cool to hear that it's holding up so well. It's too bad the follow-up imperial stout ended up infected. Thank you for the review!

In may I opened an ~8 year old bottle and my thoughts were similar to jacksback It was a little dusty around the edges but ive had plenty of younger brews that tasted much older than this one. It has held on nicely.

3 years ago I opened a Gude Gregs and it was also infected - the sour cherry tang was a dominating trait. I think I still have a bottle left.

 

[jedwards]

Had a 2012 Courage RIS a couple nights ago. First time having this beer, and I thought it was great. Tons of dark fruits and chocolate. Zero bitterness. Just starting to get that rounded, soft feel from sitting for a few years. No cardboard, etc. yet.

I know these were legendary in the old days for being able to age basically forever. But I think it's more recently brewed by someone else using the same recipe? Something like that, I'm sure someone here knows more.

But, nothing I found in the 2012 bottle I had gives me any indication it's going downhill soon. There's more 2012 bottles in my bottle shop too for like $4 each, might have to grab a few more to tuck away for a while. Cheap cellaring experiment.

Details are: Last brew of the original Courage was 1993. The new stuff (so far I've only seen 2011, 2012, and 2013) is brewed to the same recipe, by the guy who last brewed it in 1993 (!), but on new equipment at new facilities. The old stuff had a touch of wild flora in it that may or may not contribute to its ability to age well for a very long time (my current favorite bottles are the second half of the 70s), and presumably the new ones don't have that going on, but I agree that they're aging quite well so far -- I strongly prefer the 2012 to the 2011 (which has a little too much acrid roast for me), and haven't tried the 2013 recently. I have a few 2011s inoculated with the dregs of 1993 Courage and I intend to do the same with some 2012s pretty soon here...

 

[Number45]

Details are: Last brew of the original Courage was 1993. The new stuff (so far I've only seen 2011, 2012, and 2013) is brewed to the same recipe, by the guy who last brewed it in 1993 (!), but on new equipment at new facilities. The old stuff had a touch of wild flora in it that may or may not contribute to its ability to age well for a very long time (my current favorite bottles are the second half of the 70s), and presumably the new ones don't have that going on, but I agree that they're aging quite well so far -- I strongly prefer the 2012 to the 2011 (which has a little too much acrid roast for me), and haven't tried the 2013 recently. I have a few 2011s inoculated with the dregs of 1993 Courage and I intend to do the same with some 2012s pretty soon here...

How hard to get are the late 70s bottles? I'm guessing one would have the best luck going international to get these from someone in the UK who has a bunch in an old cellar. I've never chased really old stuff like this, seems like a cool thing to try though.

Also, thanks for the info!

 

[jedwards]

How hard to get are the late 70s bottles? I'm guessing one would have the best luck going international to get these from someone in the UK who has a bunch in an old cellar. I've never chased really old stuff like this, seems like a cool thing to try though.

Also, thanks for the info!

Yup, that's the easiest way, though provenance can be an issue. '92/'93 bottles pop up from time to time in the US (for example) and are much more likely to have been well-stored.

 

[Gonzoillini1]

2013 Gillian from Goose Island, stored in a temp controlled converted chest freezer since purchase.

Pours with an extreme amount of visible carbonation, but the head dissipates almost instantly. Aroma is strong with strawberry, some light brett funk, mild acidity, and a background of white pepper and pleasantly phenolic saison yeast. Flavor is much the same with the strawberry taking center stage, followed by white pepper, saison phenolics and a light acidity, complemented by a crisp bready base malt character. Finishes dry with a lingering strawberry skin / wine barrel tannic bite.

About the same as it was at release with a bit less strawberry and a touch more acidity / funk to it now. No oxidation off character at all to speak of, and the color has dropped a touch. Really surprised how prevalent the strawberry character has remained.

 

[Bill2]

Saison d'Erezée biére d'éte 1990 - Batch 1

It was a beautiful sunny day in Lovell, ME. The rain was in the process of being reintroduced into the atmosphere, the clouds were starting to break, and there was a madman running around with bottles that shouldn't exist anymore.

A group was quickly formed to share this treat.

It was served relatively cold, 45-50*, which was necessary because it needed time to open up. The cork came out very quietly, there was no more carb. The dregs behaved and stayed caked to the bottom while I poured them, explosive aromas apparent feet from the glass. There was still plenty of life!!

The appearance was an opaque burnt orange, with bits of plant matter settling to the bottom of the glass as it opened up.

Nosing the biére initially brought lots of vinegar sourness, but as it decanted it settled, mellowed out, and the nuances made themselves able to be appreciated. First and foremost was the deep funk, as complex as any vintage lambic I've tried, and braced by herbs, lemons, hay, and oak. The yeast is really something special with this bottle, my pee -- extra rare.

The flavor was as expected, on the sour side. There was not much carb to speak of, but there was plenty of flavor. Lemon sour, hay, mineral funk, what fun. The label is wild, everything about this beer was wild. Great experience.

There's a beer I have my eye on that isn't checked in on untappd or listed on any websites, but I'll probably have to wait until this x-mas to get back to Eb's for more bottle extinction.

 

[libbey]

2012 Ballast Point Sea Monster?

A: The beer pours a pitch black with a slight cap of coco head. Dissipates quickly to a thin film of tiny bubbles.

S: Really nice. Dark chocolate and plums/dark fruit. No real hop presence and a very small hint of hops. No hint of ABV.

T: Taste follows suit. Loads of bakers dark chocolate with a nice leathery dark fruit finish. For a shelf turd experiment this had been a treat. Tasting fantastic a couple years in.

M: Perfectly carbed. Velvet mouthfeel with loads of malt layers left to linger. Exactly what in look for in my imperial stouts.

O: A winner in the experiment department. This beer aged wonderfully three years in. A good deal of the roast and hop bite have rounded into the overall malt base.

 

[JBP]

2012 Lost Abbey Judgment Day, quad with raisins. Lots of carb still. Really well integrated at this point with delicious dark fruit, plum, grape, some subtle dark chocolate, and bread. Just a little bit boozy on the finish. Balanced subtle sweetness. Creamy mouthfeel. Probably my favorite Lost Abbey beer that I've tried to date. This is doing absolutely great.

 

[CommanderofAwesome]

Got a few of these lurking, figured it was time to check in. Outside of 14, this was my favorite FSW anny beer to date. Fresh I was getting a ton of coconut, caramel, barrel. The Bravo was shinning.

With some time, this one isn't living up to my memory. I've had 14 recently, and it got really smoked meat-y. 17 is all meh-y. If you've had DDBA with a few yrs on it, this is what this taste like. It's over carbed, barrel only comes on the after taste, and all together just unmemorable. Flavors just aren't popping to me, sorry I dont have more descriptors.

 

[loeyjarko]

2012 Ballast Point Sea Monster?

A: The beer pours a pitch black with a slight cap of coco head. Dissipates quickly to a thin film of tiny bubbles.

S: Really nice. Dark chocolate and plums/dark fruit. No real hop presence and a very small hint of hops. No hint of ABV.

T: Taste follows suit. Loads of bakers dark chocolate with a nice leathery dark fruit finish. For a shelf turd experiment this had been a treat. Tasting fantastic a couple years in.

M: Perfectly carbed. Velvet mouthfeel with loads of malt layers left to linger. Exactly what in look for in my imperial stouts.

O: A winner in the experiment department. This beer aged wonderfully three years in. A good deal of the roast and hop bite have rounded into the overall malt base.

I had one of these about 8 months ago and concur that it was great.

 

[thechrislife]

Got a few of these lurking, figured it was time to check in. Outside of 14, this was my favorite FSW anny beer to date. Fresh I was getting a ton of coconut, caramel, barrel. The Bravo was shinning.

With some time, this one isn't living up to my memory. I've had 14 recently, and it got really smoked meat-y. 17 is all meh-y. If you've had DDBA with a few yrs on it, this is what this taste like. It's over carbed, barrel only comes on the after taste, and all together just unmemorable. Flavors just aren't popping to me, sorry I dont have more descriptors.

I really don't think any of FSW's barrel aged beers improve with age. Love their fresh barrel character.

 

[CommanderofAwesome]

I really don't think any of FSW's barrel aged beers improve with age. Love their fresh barrel character.

Not even "improve", they all seem to go down hill quickly outside of certain yrs of parabolas. Though, I'm not sure why it seems to be FSW specifically, as I haven't noticed this trend specifically to one other brewery yet. Maybe it's that FSW just produces the most available BA beers that I can buy/store in bulk?

 

[golden1]

Not even "improve", they all seem to go down hill quickly outside of certain yrs of parabolas. Though, I'm not sure why it seems to be FSW specifically, as I haven't noticed this trend specifically to one other brewery yet. Maybe it's that FSW just produces the most available BA beers that I can buy/store in bulk?

I have been told by several sources that FSW pasteurizes their big BA beers, however I'm not sure about barrel works beers. The pasteurization basically kills exert microbe in the beer. The major benefit is to lock in the flavor. One benefit of pasteurization is that if they had an infection in the barrel it is killed right before bottling.
If they bottle condition, the process involves adding yeast and sugar to naturally form the carbonation, the active yeast could potentially reduce oxygenation in the bottle. These BA big beers aren't hospitable to yeast and so I have a feeling that they force carbonate the bottles leaving the beer without any microbes to defend itself from oxidative reactions.

 

[thechrislife]

2012:

Not very good. Highly carbed. Hops and alcohol have mostly faded, but there's just nothing interesting going on. Sweet, malty cola.

 

[robertgoulet]

On Friday I did a side by side between Rosso e Marrone batch 4 (April 2013) and Rosso e Marrone batch 2015 which was just released. I found the older batch to be significantly better.

The batch 4 is on the left and poured with a nice head that had some retention and was slightly darker than the fresh batch. The fresh batch poured with no head whatsoever.

Batch 4 was funky, cherry, oaky, bark, herbal and earthy. Lots of grape and red wine notes with a dash of booze. The fresh batch was sharper, full of grape notes and grape fun dip, but significantly less complex and perhaps an odd chemical note. Fresh was quite acidic.

In my opinion, batch 4 was significanly better than batch 2015. It was much more balanced compared to the acidity that lead the way in the fresh bottle.

 

[adhdjon]

The New Glarus Thumbprint Dubbel did nothing for me fresh, but with near 2 years on it the carb has kicked up substantially. The aroma hits dried fruits/berries, smokey chicory and leather, and perfume yeast esters. The taste is blissfully complex, with a full mouthfeel, good attenuation, and just enough candy sugar sweetness. I'm pulling out dried cherries, dried berries, leather, perfume dark fruits, chocolate, bready malts à la rye bread, and some serious Belgian-like complexities.

Do age this one for a year or two. Also, hats off to New Glarus for crafting one of the better American Dubbels.

 

[jbeezification1]

I have been told by several sources that FSW pasteurizes their big BA beers, however I'm not sure about barrel works beers. The pasteurization basically kills exert microbe in the beer. The major benefit is to lock in the flavor. One benefit of pasteurization is that if they had an infection in the barrel it is killed right before bottling.
If they bottle condition, the process involves adding yeast and sugar to naturally form the carbonation, the active yeast could potentially reduce oxygenation in the bottle. These BA big beers aren't hospitable to yeast and so I have a feeling that they force carbonate the bottles leaving the beer without any microbes to defend itself from oxidative reactions.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but that sounds like a wildly stupid process.

Also the only barrel aged beer they made that did well with age was Double DBA.

 

[sweemzander]

Sounds like I need to revisit this one myself. Have a few lying around yet

 

[golden1]

I'm not saying you're wrong, but that sounds like a wildly stupid process.

Also the only barrel aged beer they made that did well with age was Double DBA.

Pasteurization is wildly stupid?

 

[stakem1]

This was a terrible idea...

All of these were bare minimum 4 years old.
The one on the left was regular base version and it was infected. Tart and bad with diaper and vegetal matter.
The middle bottle was a more recent (3-4 years old) bourbon barrel version. Also infected, tart tangy vegetal poopy.
The bottle on the right was an older barrel aged vintage (5 years old) it was surprisingly not infected but not really that good either.

I was dragging my feet for years not wanting to drink these. Glad the misery is over and they are no longer taking up space.

 

[stakem1]

Also somewhat related to this thread, ive been slowly popping random years/iterations of fifty fifty eclipse and I gotta say that im really not happy with the changes they introduced to this beer 2 years ago (or whenever it was that the abv jumped from 9.5 to 11.9.)

Eclipse was always a beer that I felt was great even without extended cellaring. However, when they upped the base (in an effort to give it more body?) I think they ****** it all up. I dont really feel it provides a richer mouthfeel, infact they feel more solvent and mineral/carbonic flavored which I think distracts from the nuance of the barrel flavors.

 

[stupac2]

Also somewhat related to this thread, ive been slowly popping random years/iterations of fifty fifty eclipse and I gotta say that im really not happy with the changes they introduced to this beer 2 years ago (or whenever it was that the abv jumped from 9.5 to 11.9.)

Eclipse was always a beer that I felt was great even without extended cellaring. However, when they upped the base (in an effort to give it more body?) I think they ****** it all up. I dont really feel it provides a richer mouthfeel, infact they feel more solvent and mineral/carbonic flavored which I think distracts from the nuance of the barrel flavors.

I don't actually think they changed anything. 9.5% is the ABV of Totality, and there's 0 chance that extended barrel aging doesn't add to the ABV. Rather, I think the increase is due to them finally measuring the results in a lab and updating the ABV to be somewhat accurate. I have to admit that I'm not 100% of this, but if I remember I'll ask someone at the party.

Anyway, I've been doing the same thing (I assume for the same reason you are, gotta make room for the new ones) and I've been enjoying all the various vintages. The other day I had a 2014 4 Roses that was getting to where I want it to be, but still quite good. I might be weird in that I've always liked Eclipse most with 2+ years on it. I don't think I've ever had a variant that I would've rather had fresh. Not that they're bad fresh, they're just really great aged.

 

[jedwards]

This was a terrible idea...

All of these were bare minimum 4 years old.
The one on the left was regular base version and it was infected. Tart and bad with diaper and vegetal matter.
The middle bottle was a more recent (3-4 years old) bourbon barrel version. Also infected, tart tangy vegetal poopy.
The bottle on the right was an older barrel aged vintage (5 years old) it was surprisingly not infected but not really that good either.

I was dragging my feet for years not wanting to drink these. Glad the misery is over and they are no longer taking up space.

Hah, I'm reasonably sure I've got one or two of these from 2009-ish sitting in a cellar in Seattle. I should cull those next time I'm in town.

 

[beerandraiderfan]

Also somewhat related to this thread, ive been slowly popping random years/iterations of fifty fifty eclipse and I gotta say that im really not happy with the changes they introduced to this beer 2 years ago (or whenever it was that the abv jumped from 9.5 to 11.9.)

Eclipse was always a beer that I felt was great even without extended cellaring. However, when they upped the base (in an effort to give it more body?) I think they ****** it all up. I dont really feel it provides a richer mouthfeel, infact they feel more solvent and mineral/carbonic flavored which I think distracts from the nuance of the barrel flavors.

I don't actually think they changed anything. 9.5% is the ABV of Totality, and there's 0 chance that extended barrel aging doesn't add to the ABV. Rather, I think the increase is due to them finally measuring the results in a lab and updating the ABV to be somewhat accurate. I have to admit that I'm not 100% of this, but if I remember I'll ask someone at the party.

Anyway, I've been doing the same thing (I assume for the same reason you are, gotta make room for the new ones) and I've been enjoying all the various vintages. The other day I had a 2014 4 Roses that was getting to where I want it to be, but still quite good. I might be weird in that I've always liked Eclipse most with 2+ years on it. I don't think I've ever had a variant that I would've rather had fresh. Not that they're bad fresh, they're just really great aged.

I heard the change in labeling had to do with taxation issues. What I overheard is that California(?) taxes based on abv, and by keeping "9.5%" on the label they were avoiding that increased payment to the state for awhile.

 

[Gonzoillini1]

I heard the change in labeling had to do with taxation issues. What I overheard is that California(?) taxes based on abv, and by keeping "9.5%" on the label they were avoiding that increased payment to the state for awhile.

Not an expert in this by any means, but I thought CA had a weird law where if the ABV pickup from used spirit barrels was more than .5% then the end product would be taxed as a spirit and not a beer (which is a much higher tax).

As a result I remember Todd Ashman posting about having to thoroughly wash the barrels compared to brewers in other states who are looking to retain as much spirit character as possible (and occasionally who are even adding the spirit the barrel once contained back to the barrel to re-fresh it so to speak).

 

[beerandraiderfan]

Not an expert in this by any means, but I thought CA had a weird law where if the ABV pickup from used spirit barrels was more than .5% then the end product would be taxed as a spirit and not a beer (which is a much higher tax).

As a result I remember Todd Ashman posting about having to thoroughly wash the barrels compared to brewers in other states who are looking to retain as much spirit character as possible (and occasionally who are even adding the spirit the barrel once contained back to the barrel to re-fresh it so to speak).

Yes, I have heard that too, possibly from the same source, or maybe a different one.
The inner stupac in me feels the need to mention that it is prolly a ttb regulation as opposed to a law, but in the grand scheme of things it is a distinction without a difference.

I may be incorrect, but I thought I recalled said source also mentioning something along the lines of what stakem said, about the body of Totality/Eclipse being upped. In those early years, it seemed like the #1 drawback you heard about Eclipse was the thin mouthfeel/body. I agree with both guys, I liked it when it was a tad thinner (also why I love CW -bals, they got that **** on point instead of getting into an out sludge the other guy battle), but I also prefer Eclipse aged vs. fresh (coffee being the exception).

Wish I could blend a Coconut & Coffee Eclipse. Love that new almond joy coffee creamer. Makes me want beer.