Catalyst Fermentor Kickstarter

[CraftaBrew]

You can always just order directly from craft-a-brew themselves.

Thats correct, we have a short term exclusivity agreement with Northern Brewer which only allows CraftaBrew.com and NorthernBrewer.com to be the only online retailers. We will expand out distribution in the new year.

 

[Bobby_M]

You can always just order directly from craft-a-brew themselves.

Thats correct, we have a short term exclusivity agreement with Northern Brewer which only allows CraftaBrew.com and NorthernBrewer.com to be the only online retailers. We will expand out distribution in the new year.

Did you know you were selling your souls when you signed?

 

[andrewmaixner]

Did you know you were selling your souls when you signed?

I'd doubt that *any* of the designers/producers which sell equipment to NB could possibly have had any knowledge before-the-fact of the AB buyout. It was pretty closely held.

 

[RoGuE_HAHG]

Here's the unboxing video I did for this new fermenter. Cheers!
https://youtu.be/ZjcBBaY7GJU

Thats correct, we have a short term exclusivity agreement with Northern Brewer which only allows CraftaBrew.com and NorthernBrewer.com to be the only online retailers. We will expand out distribution in the new year.

Solid Video. Thanks for doing it! It gave me a pause I hadn't thought of before. What do you think after having handled it.

Food containers like Snapware use the same style folding closure with a gasket and they always wear out and break. I am convinced they do it to make you buy more of their product.

Does the lid closure seem like it will crack and break with extended use?


Craftabrew - What's the wear estimation on the lid material?

thanks!

 

[CraftaBrew]

I'd doubt that *any* of the designers/producers which sell equipment to NB could possibly have had any knowledge before-the-fact of the AB buyout. It was pretty closely held.

Of course we had no knowledge of any InBev deal, I doubt any of NB suppliers did.

Remember that Craft a Brew is still a small business, I started it out of my apartment 5 years ago and I'm thrilled to finally be able to release a completely custom product we have been working on for nearly 2 years.

We partnered with Northern Brewer back in June to get access to the customers of the largest homebrew retailer in the country to help our product reach as many users as possible in the remainder of 2016. We will continue to sell it on our website and plan to distribute to other retailers in the new year.

Solid Video. Thanks for doing it! It gave me a pause I hadn't thought of before. What do you think after having handled it.

Food containers like Snapware use the same style folding closure with a gasket and they always wear out and break. I am convinced they do it to make you buy more of their product.

Does the lid closure seem like it will crack and break with extended use?


Craftabrew - What's the wear estimation on the lid material?

thanks!

Honestly I had this concern too and I wanted our designers to go back to the drawing board at first but having cycle tested the latches over 500 times without any tearing or stretching I can honestly say that it is a closure that will last. We relentlessly tested everything to ensure The Catalyst would work as advertised, exceed expectation and stand the test of time. I hope everyone gets a chance to try it out or see it in action.

 

[xandersaml]

Thats correct, we have a short term exclusivity agreement with Northern Brewer which only allows CraftaBrew.com and NorthernBrewer.com to be the only online retailers. We will expand out distribution in the new year.

Ah yes, but what about selling me one for $129.00 or even $149.00 instead of $200.00?

 

[CraftaBrew]

Ah yes, but what about selling me one for $129.00 or even $149.00 instead of $200.00?

We'd love to if the numbers worked, we are offering The Catalyst at $200 due to the use of high quality materials and manufacturing costs, not greed.

We realize that if we were able to match FastFerment at $100 we'd sell a ton more but making the worlds first 3" butterfly valve made of Tritan that is compatible with any mason jar took some R&D. The Tritan tank we manufactured is the largest single piece of Tritan ever created which was also a challenge and took a specially equipped factory that had to use a crane to mount the huge production mold. I'm hoping that when reviews come out they will convince the home brewers that are interested but skeptical about the materials or price that this fermenter is worth the investment.

 

[8rnw8]

Everyone forgets that a fast ferment with comparable accessories is about the same price anyway. Currently $185 on amazon.

The catalyst comes with a stand (fast ferment charges extra for), and trub catchers for this (mason jars) are dirt cheap, easier to sanitize, come in assorted sizes, and should last forever.

I was a kickstarter backer, and absolutely can't wait.

 

[TorMag]

Everyone forgets that a fast ferment with comparable accessories is about the same price anyway. Currently $185 on amazon.

The catalyst comes with a stand (fast ferment charges extra for), and trub catchers for this (mason jars) are dirt cheap, easier to sanitize, come in assorted sizes, and should last forever.

I was a kickstarter backer, and absolutely can't wait.

Bad comparison. First you pick the location where the FastFerment is listed the highest. Most places it is $99. Second, you mention no stand, well the Catalyst does not come with wall mounts, so you are even there. The wall mounts are one thing that puts the FastFerment over the Catalyst for me. But I am still digging the mason jar connection.

 

[ImNoExpert]

Maybe I'm missing something, but when you put that bottling attachment on and open the valve, doesn't it bubble up a bunch of air through your you're new beer?

 

[RoGuE_HAHG]

Honestly I had this concern too and I wanted our designers to go back to the drawing board at first but having cycle tested the latches over 500 times without any tearing or stretching I can honestly say that it is a closure that will last. We relentlessly tested everything to ensure The Catalyst would work as advertised, exceed expectation and stand the test of time. I hope everyone gets a chance to try it out or see it in action.

Thanks for that update. Good to know. I am just starting brewing again after 15years. A lot of new equipment out there. This is on my short list of equipment to buy, as I am borrowing carboys now. Just the price is catching in my throat.

2 suggestions for future...
If you can do this in stainless for less than $250, you would beat out SSBrewtech for a lot of people. Second, consider selling the valve assembly as a stand alone. Modders would have a field day with it.

 

[Brewsbeforehos]

I'm in Canada and by the time this lands on my doorstep it will probably be over $300 CAD. But I'm still excited to see what it can do. I just hope you guys line up a Canadian distributor if I end up liking this thing! A buddy and myself backed for 2 fermenters and his arrived today, but I'm still waiting on my shipping notification. Thankfully he's going to let me break his in this weekend with an all grain 5 Gallon Dark "Winter warmer" holiday brew. I'm very excited to see this thing in action. I am going to try and remember to video and Youtube the entire process from brew day to pint glass with the Catalyst for the duration (hoping to keg around first week of December).

On a side note, I had never signed up for a profile on here until today, but this has been an invaluable resource for the past year or so as I got up and running with this obsession! So thank you all who are so helpful. I hope to chime in from time to time on the odd occasion I have some answers from now on.

 

[StoutNoDoubt]

Maybe I'm missing something, but when you put that bottling attachment on and open the valve, doesn't it bubble up a bunch of air through your you're new beer?

During my video unboxing of the Catalyst, there was a very large bubble of air that came through the water I used for leak testing. In all honesty, I really don't see it being an issue as usually we change out the jars only once and that is after the primary fermentation is done. There is so much CO2 in the beer at that point that the oxygen would get pushed out anyhow. The second time around, you would be closing the valve to remove the smaller yeast collection jar and then attaching the bottling/kegging tubing to move to bottles or a keg.

 

[StoutNoDoubt]

Thanks for that update. Good to know. I am just starting brewing again after 15years. A lot of new equipment out there. This is on my short list of equipment to buy, as I am borrowing carboys now. Just the price is catching in my throat.

2 suggestions for future...
If you can do this in stainless for less than $250, you would beat out SSBrewtech for a lot of people. Second, consider selling the valve assembly as a stand alone. Modders would have a field day with it.

Honestly, that was a thought that crossed my mind as well. If they do tear, it would be way down the road after a ton of brews. The fermenter plastic is definitely a unique type of plastic and I see many years of brewing with it.

 

[thunderwagn]

During my video unboxing of the Catalyst, there was a very large bubble of air that came through the water I used for leak testing. In all honesty, I really don't see it being an issue as usually we change out the jars only once and that is after the primary fermentation is done. There is so much CO2 in the beer at that point that the oxygen would get pushed out anyhow. The second time around, you would be closing the valve to remove the smaller yeast collection jar and then attaching the bottling/kegging tubing to move to bottles or a keg.

I noticed the big blurb as well lol. My thought was maybe opening the valve at the very beginning. Eventually, the yeast and trub will find its way there I would think.

 

[8rnw8]

Bad comparison. First you pick the location where the FastFerment is listed the highest. Most places it is $99. Second, you mention no stand, well the Catalyst does not come with wall mounts, so you are even there. The wall mounts are one thing that puts the FastFerment over the Catalyst for me. But I am still digging the mason jar connection.

I'll do this again.

Fast ferment alone: $90-99
Fast ferment stand: $35-49
Fast ferment additional collection ball: $21
Fast ferment carrying straps: $15

$146-184 for a fast ferment with at least 2 trub collectors

Catalyst on kickstarter $165, from the company now, $199. This comes with a stand, bottling attachment, and one trub collection jar, with other collection jars being far easier to clean and sanitize, and costing around a dollar EACH. The catalyst itself is also easier to clean, less oxygen permeable, and less prone to clog due to the much larger valve.

You are correct in that the catalyst does not have a wall mount. Do any other conicals have a wall mount? Great that it works for some people. I would never mount a fermenter on my wall.


They are both fine systems, but to say that the catalyst is overpriced compared to the fast fermenter is wildly inaccurate.

 

[StoutNoDoubt]

I noticed the big blurb as well lol. My thought was maybe opening the valve at the very beginning. Eventually, the yeast and trub will find its way there I would think.

Exactly! You would have the valve open during fermentation to allow the trub to fall into the jar and then after primary fermentation, close the valve, remove the jar, and the add smaller sanitized jar for secondary. At that point you would just have a nice clean yeast sample to repitch in a different brew.

 

[jddevinn]

During my video unboxing of the Catalyst, there was a very large bubble of air that came through the water I used for leak testing. In all honesty, I really don't see it being an issue as usually we change out the jars only once and that is after the primary fermentation is done. There is so much CO2 in the beer at that point that the oxygen would get pushed out anyhow. The second time around, you would be closing the valve to remove the smaller yeast collection jar and then attaching the bottling/kegging tubing to move to bottles or a keg.

Nope this is the worst time for oxidation. CO2 saturation will not stop oxidation of the beer. You'll need to somehow purge the second jar of oxygen before attaching or the beer will be oxidized.

 

[8rnw8]

You really only need to do this once other than right before fermentation, and you can just fill the jar with boiled water if you're worried about oxidation.

 

[jddevinn]

Nope this is the worst time for oxidation. CO2 saturation will not stop oxidation of the beer. You'll need to somehow purge the second jar of oxygen before attaching or the beer will be oxidized.

FYI,

Per this presentation To prevent premature degradation of beer flavor due to packaged O2, the Total Packaged Oxygen (TPO) should be less than about 150 ppb (0.15 ppm).

Per Brewing Science and Practice TPO should be less than 200ppb and less than 100ppb should be picked up post fermentation.

Assuming that the beer has total 0ppb dissolved oxygen (DO) when the 8oz jar is screwed in and opened the O2 added from the air in the jar is approximately 3,000ppb, 15 times the total recommended DO.

It would be much preferable to add 8oz of StarSan than 8oz of air.

This isn't a product specific thing, many people use attachments on the bottom of other conicals.

 

[CraftaBrew]

You really only need to do this once other than right before fermentation, and you can just fill the jar with boiled water if you're worried about oxidation.

Yes, this is something we have done before to test it and it greatly decreases the amount of air traveling through the beer. If this is done with the 8oz jar you are only introducing 8oz of water into 640 oz of beer which is a dilution of just over 1%.

FYI,

Per this presentation To prevent premature degradation of beer flavor due to packaged O2, the Total Packaged Oxygen (TPO) should be less than about 150 ppb (0.15 ppm).

Per Brewing Science and Practice TPO should be less than 200ppb and less than 100ppb should be picked up post fermentation.

Assuming that the beer has total 0ppb dissolved oxygen (DO) when the 8oz jar is screwed in and opened the O2 added from the air in the jar is approximately 3,000ppb, 15 times the total recommended DO.

It would be much preferable to add 8oz of StarSan than 8oz of air.

This isn't a product specific thing, many people use attachments on the bottom of other conicals.

Wouldn't this formula assume that all 8oz of air would be dissolved into the solution as it travels through the beer?

I think in practice much less then 1% of the air bubble would be absorbed into the beer as it travels through the solution, 99%+ will go through the beer and arrive on top of the fermenter. At this time the CO2 will be heavier then the air in the headspace protecting it from any oxidation. Also since there will still be dissolved CO2 in the beer it will continue to equalize with the headspace which will push even more CO2 into the headspace as the beer ages.

 

[ImNoExpert]

I think this would be a great fermentor for brewers trying to decrease their oxygen exposure with the exception of the bottling connector. I could go from fermentor to the in post on my purged corny with no or very little exposure.

That's where it falls short in this respect. That bottling adapter has too much volume. But I'm guessing it has to be that way to accommodate the swing of the large butterfly valve.

 

[jddevinn]

Yes, this is something we have done before to test it and it greatly decreases the amount of air traveling through the beer. If this is done with the 8oz jar you are only introducing 8oz of water into 640 oz of beer which is a dilution of just over 1%.




Wouldn't this formula assume that all 8oz of air would be dissolved into the solution as it travels through the beer?

I think in practice much less then 1% of the air bubble would be absorbed into the beer as it travels through the solution, 99%+ will go through the beer and arrive on top of the fermenter.

The assumption is that all the O2 component of the 8oz of air will all eventually be absorbed by the beer. Yes the majority will go into the headspace.

At this time the CO2 will be heavier then the air in the headspace protecting it from any oxidation.

However, gases do not stratify by weight they mix by diffusion. The air that goes into the headspace will be diluted by the CO2 already present and some of the diluted mixture will be expelled from the airlock. The remaining gas mixture will be the air plus the CO2 already in the headspace. The rate at which O2 is absorbed into the beer will be dependent on the partial pressure of the O2 and the beer temperature.

Also remember that the O2 in the beer does not stay O2, it reacts in multiple stages becoming superoxide, peroxide, extra that cause other reactions. Since the O2 does not stay dissolved oxygen the upper limit to O2 absorption is not the O2 saturation point.

Also since there will still be dissolved CO2 in the beer it will continue to equalize with the headspace which will push even more CO2 into the headspace as the beer ages.

Yes there is CO2 still dissolved in the beer. During active fermentation the constant production of CO2 will protect the beer/wort and is what allows open primary fermentations. After fermentation completes the dissolved CO2 concentration in the beer will fairly rapidly stabilize, only changing with agitation, change in headspace CO2 partial pressure or change in temperature. "Ready to package" beer coming out of the fermenter almost always has a CO2 carb level of above 1-1.2 volumes.

This isn't a criticism of your product but a general comment on the "bubble through" I saw in the video. Many people do the same thing with their stainless or plastic conicals. Perhaps a warning in the instructions that if you switch the jar to fill it with StarSan may be warranted. OR an accessory that would allow (at least partial) CO2 purging of the 8oz jar, you could do this by filling with StarSan and pushing it out either with a CO2 tank or by connecting it to the gas out of the fermenter????

 

[jddevinn]

I think this would be a great fermentor for brewers trying to decrease their oxygen exposure with the exception of the bottling connector. I could go from fermentor to the in post on my purged corny with no or very little exposure.

That's where it falls short in this respect. That bottling adapter has too much volume. But I'm guessing it has to be that way to accommodate the swing of the large butterfly valve.

You could just discard the first pint or two of beer that pushes the air out of the adapter and tubing assuming that there are no voids that create air pockets. The diffusion of gas through the liquid beer would be small enough that the discarded beer would protect the rest of the beer.

 

[jddevinn]

By the way CraftaBrew is this pressure rated at all? If it can do 1-3psig it may make a good fermenter for me to wrap some discharge hose around for glycol temp control and use for small experimental batches.

 

[Redlantern]

Just thinking here -

No need to rack to secondary for most ales. This means one trub dump only is necessary. Use a 1 qt jar for that. Of course, the 1qt jar is present and with the butterfly valve open when you pour the wort into the fermenter.

Do the single trub dump just before bottling. I mean immediately before.

Replace the 1qt jar with a smaller jar full to the top of your priming sugar solution. Open and close the valve a few times to mix the beer and priming sugar. There will be a little loss, but I would venture a guess that if the folks making this fermenter decide to add a priming sugar vessel to add to the bottom of the fermenter and put a spigot on it to capture the last bit for bottling.

Fewer steps and more purpose in each step.

 

[ImNoExpert]

You could just discard the first pint or two of beer that pushes the air out of the adapter and tubing assuming that there are no voids that create air pockets. The diffusion of gas through the liquid beer would be small enough that the discarded beer would protect the rest of the beer.

You could if the volume of air was smaller. As soon as you open that butterfly valve, all that air bubbles up through the entire batch. I'm not saying that it's going to ruin your batch of beer, but some brewers go to great lengths to minimize the introduction of oxygen after fermentation, this product will float a big plug of air up through your beer when it comes time to transfer or bottle. I see this as a big drawback for $200.

Now, I could see installing my own valve out the side like on a steel conical, but for $200, I don't want to have to go about modifying it to make it suitable for my needs.

 

[jddevinn]

You could if the volume of air was smaller. As soon as you open that butterfly valve, all that air bubbles up through the entire batch. I'm not saying that it's going to ruin your batch of beer, but some brewers go to great lengths to minimize the introduction of oxygen after fermentation, this product will float a big plug of air up through your beer when it comes time to transfer or bottle. I see this as a big drawback for $200.

Now, I could see installing my own valve out the side like on a steel conical, but for $200, I don't want to have to go about modifying it to make it suitable for my needs.

Yea I'm one of them. I did the math for oxidation with the small jar earlier in the thread. Didn't realize the bottling attachment had a big enough void to bubble through the beer! Figured you could just push it out like I used to do on conicals.

 

[DrFun]

Couldn't you just purge the jar(s) with CO2 before connecting? Use one of those handheld cartridge things. I realize it would not be 100% effective but should drastically reduce the amount of oxygen.


I also kickstarted this thing and am excited to start brewing again after a few years hiatus.

 

[CraftaBrew]

By the way CraftaBrew is this pressure rated at all? If it can do 1-3psig it may make a good fermenter for me to wrap some discharge hose around for glycol temp control and use for small experimental batches.

Yes, in our experience the seal holds up to 2-3 PSI then very small leaks begin to occur in our water testing. Just keep in mind 2 PSI is way more pressure then will occur during a fermentation.

Yea I'm one of them. I did the math for oxidation with the small jar earlier in the thread. Didn't realize the bottling attachment had a big enough void to bubble through the beer! Figured you could just push it out like I used to do on conicals.

If the tubing is unclamped when the valve is opened when bottling it will push a majority of the air through the tubing and not allow it to go through the beer. You can always fill the tubing and bottling attachment with water or sanitizer then discard the first 6 or so oz of liquid as it comes out of the tubing.

Couldn't you just purge the jar(s) with CO2 before connecting? Use one of those handheld cartridge things. I realize it would not be 100% effective but should drastically reduce the amount of oxygen.


I also kickstarted this thing and am excited to start brewing again after a few years hiatus.

Thanks for the support! Yes, the jar can be purged with CO2 or filled with water to avoid any air bubbles.

In most situations this will not be necessary but if your fermenting a beer that will be aged for a year or more it may be a good idea to take these steps. We are looking for a fermentation scientist to hopefully give a complete explanation and quantify the affects to put users worries to rest... More on this soon.