CASCADE DIPA - help with hop amounts

[akithegood]

Hello everybody!

I've been a hobby brewer for a year or so now, and yesterday I stumbled upon an idea that might be the greatest one ever.

I rarely brew anything exactly to a style or follow recipes created by others. In my opinion the best part of brewing is experimenting with different techniques and ingredients. Lately I've been thinking of a nice, big double IPA with lots and lots of hop aroma, but I haven't been able to decide which hops to use. Yesterday I think I finally nailed it.

I present to you: CASCADE DIPA, hopped with Centennial, Ahtanum, Simcoe, Citra, Amarillo, Delta and Equinox - not a single cone of Cascade. The amount of different hops might be too much, but I want to give it a shot anyway.

I don't have access to a wort chiller, and so far I've been brewing no-chill. I think first wort hopping work really well with no-chilling, so I'm thinking 1/3 of total hops as FWH, 1/3 at flameout and 1/3 as dry hops for a week before bottling. I might let the wort settle and cool a bit before adding the flameout hops - maybe add them at -20min and let them steep for 10-15 minutes. What do you think?

Heres a "beta version" of the recipe:

CASCADE DIPA
Imperial IPA

Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (G): 4.2
Total Grain (lb): 14.330
Total Hops (oz): 7.41
Original Gravity (OG): 1.089 (°P): 21.3
Final Gravity (FG): 1.017 (°P): 4.3
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 9.44 %
Colour (SRM): 14.6 (EBC): 28.8
Bitterness (IBU): 141.4 (Average - No Chill Adjusted)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 70
Boil Time (Minutes): 60

Grain Bill
----------------
13.228 lb Pale Ale Malt (92.31%)
1.102 lb Crystal 150 (7.69%)

Hop Bill
----------------
0.35 oz Ahtanum Pellet (4.8% Alpha) @ 100 Minutes (First Wort) (0.1 oz/Gal)
0.35 oz Amarillo Pellet (8.9% Alpha) @ 100 Minutes (First Wort) (0.1 oz/Gal)
0.35 oz Centennial Pellet (8.8% Alpha) @ 100 Minutes (First Wort) (0.1 oz/Gal)
0.35 oz Citra Pellet (12.5% Alpha) @ 100 Minutes (First Wort) (0.1 oz/Gal)
0.35 oz Delta Pellet (6% Alpha) @ 100 Minutes (First Wort) (0.1 oz/Gal)
0.35 oz Equinox Pellet (13.9% Alpha) @ 100 Minutes (First Wort) (0.1 oz/Gal)
0.35 oz Simcoe Pellet (12.9% Alpha) @ 100 Minutes (First Wort) (0.1 oz/Gal)
0.35 oz Ahtanum Pellet (4.8% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Boil) (0.1 oz/Gal)
0.35 oz Amarillo Pellet (8.9% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Boil) (0.1 oz/Gal)
0.35 oz Centennial Pellet (8.8% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Boil) (0.1 oz/Gal)
0.35 oz Citra Pellet (12.5% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Boil) (0.1 oz/Gal)
0.35 oz Delta Pellet (6% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Boil) (0.1 oz/Gal)
0.35 oz Equinox Pellet (13.9% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Boil) (0.1 oz/Gal)
0.35 oz Simcoe Pellet (12.9% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Boil) (0.1 oz/Gal)
0.35 oz Ahtanum Pellet (4.8% Alpha) @ 7 Days (Dry Hop) (0.1 oz/Gal)
0.35 oz Amarillo Pellet (8.9% Alpha) @ 7 Days (Dry Hop) (0.1 oz/Gal)
0.35 oz Centennial Pellet (8.8% Alpha) @ 7 Days (Dry Hop) (0.1 oz/Gal)
0.35 oz Citra Pellet (12.5% Alpha) @ 7 Days (Dry Hop) (0.1 oz/Gal)
0.35 oz Delta Pellet (6% Alpha) @ 7 Days (Dry Hop) (0.1 oz/Gal)
0.35 oz Equinox Pellet (13.9% Alpha) @ 7 Days (Dry Hop) (0.1 oz/Gal)
0.35 oz Simcoe Pellet (12.9% Alpha) @ 7 Days (Dry Hop) (0.1 oz/Gal)

Single step Infusion at 149°F for 90 Minutes.
Fermented at 68°F with Safale US-05

Waiting for the wort to cool a little it before adding the flameout hops would result in a little lower bitterness, maybe around 110 IBU's.

What do you think about the amounts of different hops and when to add them? I've never used Delta or Equinox, but I've heard that Delta has a rather weak aroma. Maybe I should forget the flameout addition and double the amount at DH? I've also heard complaints about Citra as a bittering hop - do you think that using it as a FWH will result in a harsh and unpleasant bitterness?

PS: Sorry for my English, I'm from Finland so I'm not a native speaker

 

[sandyeggoxj]

I would drop the OG and then shoot for a lower FG. Something between 1.006 and 1.010 is a good place to end. A target ABV of 9-9.5% works really well for this style.

In terms of hopping schedules... I like to use a big bittering charge at 90 with a high alpha hop that is agressive. This provides a bitter "backbone" so that massive late hop additions have something to rest on. The end result is far less bitter that is calculates out to be.

 

[m00ps]

I would reduce the crytsal to 5% or lower and add in some cane sugar. With double IPAs especially, you need to balance the malt sweetness with a low mash temp and lean body. Sugar will help with that. You want as low on OG as possible

Whoa, that is an unnecessarily complicated hop schedule. I do agree with you technique of hopbursting at the end as opposed to mid boil additions. Are you doing a hopstand? If nto, definitely look into it. But with that many hops, are you really gonna be able to appreciate the nuances of each variety? To me, it seems like the end result will be like when you mix all the paints as a kid and end up with....a muddled brown mess.

For a DIPA though, I think you need more hops (in total, not varieties!). My regular IPAs use around 12 oz total, my DIPAs usually a full lb. Youve only got about 7oz there

 

[akithegood]

I would drop the OG and then shoot for a lower FG. Something between 1.006 and 1.010 is a good place to end. A target ABV of 9-9.5% works really well for this style.

How can I reach an FG that low with an ABV around 9%? Should I use a different yeast or replace some of the malts with dextrose?

edit: oh well, m00ps just answered this one.

Are you doing a hopstand? If nto, definitely look into it. But with that many hops, are you really gonna be able to appreciate the nuances of each variety?

That's why I'm doing this - I don't know and I want to find out . I've tasted brews with five different finishing hops and they were wonderfully complex in aroma, but of course the more subtle varities were a little overpowered with the more dominative ones. I've done hop stands with a couple of brews earlier and that's definately something I could do with this one too.

For a DIPA though, I think you need more hops (in total, not varieties!). My regular IPAs use around 12 oz total, my DIPAs usually a full lb. Youve only got about 7oz there

Did you notice I'm only brewing a 4.2 gallon batch? It adds to about 1.6oz/gallon which I think is plenty, way more than in my usual brews. Of course I might be used to lower amounts of hops since most Finnish brewers tend to use a lot less hops than Americans and I've never tasted a fresh American IPA... Well, I'll probably end up buying the hops for this brew in 50 gram (1.7 oz or so) bags, so I will be able to add a lot more hops if necessary. Maybe I'll dry hop in two or three steps instead of one...

 

[sandyeggoxj]

Here is the grain bill for my DIPA. I am going to drop the OG a bit next round.

44.7% Great Western 2-Row
44.7% Crisp Maris Otter
3.9% Crystal 20
6.6% Cane Sugar

OG 19.1ºP
FG 1.5ºP
WLP001 at 65ºF.

I hop at around 6#/bbl. You will have to convert that to metric. That includes a dry hop. I usually brew 10 gallon batches. I am thinking about bumping up my dry hop a little for some more aroma. I guess if you do the math I'm using around 3-3.5oz of hops per gallon of beer. I have 90 minute, 15 minute and whirlpool additions. I whirlpool hot for 30 minutes and chill inline to the fermenter.