Cardamom Saison?

[jlinz]

Have a split batch of saison. Thinking about doing something interesting to half the batch. I know coriander is common, but cardamom popped into my head. Anyone tried brewing with cardamom? What would be the best way to go about this?

 

[TasunkaWitko]

I have a recipe for a Cardamom Ale that I haven't tried yet, but want to. It might be good for ideas or guidelines. It is in PDF format so PM me with an email address and I can send it.

 

[TheHairyHop]

I haven't used it in beer, but cardamom is very potent. I would crack a few pods (don't use powdered) and add them one or two at a time and stop when the flavor is desirable

 

[TasunkaWitko]

Agreed - be careful with this awesome but potent stuff! The recipe I have advises three (green) pods, added at 30 minutes into a 60-minute boil.

 

[jlinz]

I wonder what a cracked pod or two might do if introduced into the secondary. Also have blueberries I could add instead. Haven't decided yet.

 

[processhead]

Agree. Amazing flavor and aroma but very potent.

 

[TasunkaWitko]

The recipe I have don't specify cracked or not; however, I imagine that after 30 minutes of boiling, it probably (?) wouldn't matter much. If I had to guess, I would guess cracked.

Recipe advises a malty base, and that the cardamom "adds notes of rich citrus, blood oranges and Meyer Lemons." Special B malt is present in the grist, which "adds a hint of raisiny sweetness to the body." Recipe also states that using black pods rather than green will "give this beer a complex smokiness."

 

[TheHairyHop]

cardamom "adds notes of rich citrus, blood oranges and Meyer Lemons."

that is not how I would describe the flavor of cardamom because it leaves out the menthol/eucalyptus flavor than many could be quite sensitive to. It is indeed a "warm" spice, so I could see where citrus comes from. Personally, I would avoid doing it in the boil and go with cold application first, so that you don't ruin gallons of beer by accidentally overdoing it.

I do think it would go well in a saison

 

[TasunkaWitko]

Some good points there. My only experience with it is in baking, using the ground stuff - and I've had a couple of chais.

Good stuff, and I can see it doing some nice things for beer.

 

[HausBrauerei_Harvey]

let us know if you try this, I love cardamon but rarely use it, even when cooking. could be nice in a saison if you use a light hand I think.

 

[jlinz]

let us know if you try this, I love cardamon but rarely use it, even when cooking. could be nice in a saison if you use a light hand I think.

Will definitely let you know if I do. Still tempted to throw 2 cracked pods in there after primary fermentation is over. Might test it by tasting a bit of cardamom with the other half of the batch first when bottling it.

 

[TheHairyHop]

Will definitely let you know if I do. Still tempted to throw 2 cracked pods in there after primary fermentation is over. Might test it by tasting a bit of cardamom with the other half of the batch first when bottling it.

If you want to have a project to over analyze, you could read this blog post and act on what you think:
https://www.themadfermentationist.com/2017/02/gose-neipa-principles-for-coriander.html

I thought it was a good read

 

[dmtaylor]

I use cardamom in a Belgianish gruit ale. 10 seeds crushed in 5 gallons is just barely detectable. To really notice it, try 15-20 seeds in 5 gallons. A little goes a long way. I soak mine in an ounce of vodka overnight, then add just the flavored vodka on kegging/bottling day.

Enjoy.

 

[dmtaylor]

Agreed - be careful with this awesome but potent stuff! The recipe I have advises three (green) pods, added at 30 minutes into a 60-minute boil.

That's way too much.

 

[ericbw]

I've used a few cracked pods in a patersbier. Crack the pods but don't crush the seeds.

 

[TasunkaWitko]

That's way too much.

The difference might be that my recipe adds them halfway through the (60-minute) boil. Using them as you do, the circumstances might be different as you're doing the extract/tincture thing.

The only way to know for sure, of course, is for me to try the recipe, which I haven't yet done. If I do, I'll report back.

 

[jlinz]

Experiment is on. I have two pods cracked (not smashed) sitting in a bit of rum. I will dump them into the fermenter today. I'll probably let them sit about 5 days. Also considering adding a bit of lemon zest to the tincture. Not sure about that though. The peel is waxy.

 

[jlinz]

I read through Papazian's little section on spices. All he seems to say about cardamom is that it's a spice that intrigues him. He does say not to overdue spices in beer in general though. Also looks like he discusses them as additions to the boil.

 

[dyqik]

For me, cardamom is more of a dark beer type spice - it's common in Turkish coffee, or dark rich cakes.

I wonder if a coffee cardamom porter would be good?

 

[jlinz]

Sounds intriguing.

 

[Mainer]

One of my best recipes is a Baltic Porter with anise and cardamom. People are right, though, it's pretty potent. Even with very dark malts and 8+% ABV, I believe my recipe uses 5g of whole cardamom pods, and 5g whole anise stars.

 

[jlinz]

Willing to share that baltic porter recipe?

 

[Mainer]

Willing to share that baltic porter recipe?

Sure. I'll try to remember to re-post it tonight when I'm at home and have my brew journal in front of me.

 

[Mainer]

Sure. I'll try to remember to re-post it tonight when I'm at home and have my brew journal in front of me.

If I forget, shoot me a PM.

 

[jlinz]

Nice! Sounds really good.

 

[Mainer]

Takes a LOOOOONG time to age, though. At three months, it has a sharp, sweet root beer taste that I find unpleasant. By nine months it mellows to a subtle sweetness, and the chocolate malt comes out. It also calls for a small amount of smoked malt that blends nicely if you're patient.

 

[Mainer]

Oh, also, I ferment my Baltic the traditional way, on lager yeast.

 

[jlinz]

Huh. I would probably make a half batch and get another fermenter for it and let it age.

 

[Mainer]

Huh. I would probably make a half batch and get another fermenter for it and let it age.

I just bottle it young and let it bottle-condition.

 

[TheHairyHop]

One of my best recipes is a Baltic Porter with anise and cardamom. People are right, though, it's pretty potent. Even with very dark malts and 8+% ABV, I believe my recipe uses 5g of whole cardamom pods, and 5g whole anise stars.

sounds like a good beer to have during a Maine winter. I know that some days during a snowy winter, it's a weekend, there's too much snow outside, and I already have the wood stored. I'd like to give this recipe a shot as well