Carboy vs fermenting bucket

[Mouse]

MY starter kit arrived today and looking at the instructions I realized that the Irish Ale I got required 2nd stage fermentation. I know I can skip that and leave it in the fermentation bucket an extra week, but thought to look if this was a good idea.

I couldn't find much on if glass or plastic was better, but I found comments talking about using the carboy as the Primary fermenter and not using the Fermentation bucket.


Can anyone explain why you would do this? I don't understand what would change in a carboy vs the bucket unless light has an effect?

 

[Gavin C]

MY starter kit arrived today and looking at the instructions I realized that the Irish Ale I got required 2nd stage fermentation. I know I can skip that and leave it in the fermentation bucket an extra week, but thought to look if this was a good idea.

I couldn't find much on if glass or plastic was better, but I found comments talking about using the carboy as the Primary fermenter and not using the Fermentation bucket.


Can anyone explain why you would do this? I don't understand what would change in a carboy vs the bucket unless light has an effect?

Depends on the size of the carboy.

Typically people get a large 7-8 gallon bucket and a 5 gallon carboy for a 5 gallon batch to follow the kit mantra of primary in bucket, rack to correctly sized carboy, package beer.

Fermenting a 5 gallon batch in a 5 gallon carboy will result in the likelihood of major mess and the certainty of loss of beer.

You need room in the fermentation vessel to acomodate the foam that forms during fermentation. This is the krausen and can get very large depending on the type of yeast used.

Krausens Big and Small (5.5 gallon batches, 6 Gallon Carboy)

This is what you're trying to avoid
Image by @fritztheelephant

 

[Aristotelian]

Shouldn't make a difference. From everything I have read, the biggest differences are that plastic is lighter and more durable, while glass is more difficult to scratch and less prone to infection.

 

[RmikeVT]

MY starter kit arrived today and looking at the instructions I realized that the Irish Ale I got required 2nd stage fermentation. I know I can skip that and leave it in the fermentation bucket an extra week, but thought to look if this was a good idea.

I couldn't find much on if glass or plastic was better, but I found comments talking about using the carboy as the Primary fermenter and not using the Fermentation bucket.


Can anyone explain why you would do this? I don't understand what would change in a carboy vs the bucket unless light has an effect?

For primary the use of HDPE (plastic bucket), or PETE (better bottle, plastic carboy), or glass is all personal preference. I prefer using 6g Better Bottle knock-offs (which I find to be more durable than the actual Better Bottle brand) Although, if you are doing a secondary you should try to do so in a carboy shaped vessel that is glass or PETE, not a HDPE bucket.

For you, as a beginner, I would recommend 3-4 weeks in primary and then straight to bottles for 2 weeks and then enjoy.

I am trying to make this concise, the reason you want to use a carboy shaped secondary of the same size as your batch is to reduce head space and surface area of the beer coming in contact with the gasses above the beer. 5g of liquid going into a 5g carboy will fill it right up to the bottom/middle of the neck. Thus, reducing the surface area of the beer coming in contact with the gasses above (head space). This is desirable because it greatly reduces oxidation and probably infection.

Keeping this in mind, you need to brew with the end in mind. If you end up going into secondary and you only brewed 4.5g of wort (which often happens with beginners and 5g kit beers) and your vessel is 5g, you will defeat the purpose, I've done this and ended up with a very oxidated Belgian Tripel after 3 months.

I brew about 140g a beer a year and rarely use a secondary. I mean rarely. I dry hop in primary, I add oak (if for a short period) in primary. I'll use secondary if I am making a big beer like RIS that I'm going to age for 9-12 months, which is about 1 time a year.

I simply don't like to secondary unless you absolutely have to.

 

[DevilNuts]

I do my primary in bucket (easy to clean and move around) and secondary in glass (can see what's going on in there).

Also, as noted above, it's much easier to keep your fermentation INSIDE the bucket, and not blowing out of the top of your airlock in the carboy.

 

[Mismost]

I've done it both ways...

Primary in a carboy is MORE FUN TO WATCH! Plus you get to watch it make a mess and then clean up after...almost like a real baby.

Buckets are boring, but much easier to clean up after.

I use a bucket now days.

 

[Brian77095]

I have yet to use a bucket. My kit came with a six gallon primary and a five gallon secondary. I went with the big mouth bubbler. I enjoy seeing the yeast do their thing. Seeing them in action has helped reinforce fermentation lock activity is not a good indication of activity.

Since buying my kit I founds some great deals on craigslist. I picked up two glass carboys for ten bucks and other stuff. I use those for cider and apfelwein. I like using them for that because those dont make a big krausen and clean up is easy.

Get some used one cheap and see what you like.

 

[kombat]

I use 6.5 gallon glass carboys for all my fermenting. Easier to clean, no worries about bugs lurking in microscopic surface scratches, enables me to watch fermentation and see what's going on without exposing the beer to oxygen, etc. Just be careful and treat them with the respect they deserve. They can hurt you badly if you mistreat them. I always wear leather work gloves when handling mine, never set them directly on a hard surface (i.e., tile, concrete), never expose them to radically varying temperatures (such as rinsing with piping hot water immediately after racking out cold-crashed beer from it). Treat them well and they'll serve you well for years. Plus, they're cheap to find if you surf your online classifieds for them (around $10/ea.).

 

[DevilNuts]

Keep in mind if you ferment in glass that light can cause problems; be prepared to keep your carboy in a dark space or wrapped in a blanket most of the time.

 

[LandoLincoln]

MY starter kit arrived today and looking at the instructions I realized that the Irish Ale I got required 2nd stage fermentation. I know I can skip that and leave it in the fermentation bucket an extra week, but thought to look if this was a good idea.

I couldn't find much on if glass or plastic was better, but I found comments talking about using the carboy as the Primary fermenter and not using the Fermentation bucket.

Can anyone explain why you would do this? I don't understand what would change in a carboy vs the bucket unless light has an effect?

Buckets are for people that aren't awesome enough to be able to handle a large glass object that could kill you any time it pleases.

Other people will talk about how buckets are lighter and cheaper and don't let light through and are safer and then other people will talk about how glass doesn't easily scratch and thus is better than using infection-prone buckets and then the bucket people will talk about how they never got an infection with their buckets and by the way buckets are way easier to clean and then the glass people will say that glass isn't hard to clean and they like to see the fermentation process and BLAH BLAH FREAKING BLAH.

If you are awesome enough, then get a glass fermentor. If not, then stick with a bucket. That's all. Only you can say if you are truly awesome enough to handle the homebrewing equivalent of an Indian Cobra.

Fun fact: "cobra" is Portuguese for "snake."

 

[kombat]

Keep in mind if you ferment in glass that light can cause problems; be prepared to keep your carboy in a dark space or wrapped in a blanket most of the time.

Great point - I keep mine covered in 3 t-shirts when they're not in a fermentation chamber (a.k.a. chest freezer), but the brewing area of my basement never gets direct sunlight anyway.

 

[Mouse]

Thank you all for the advice. I will not worry about attempting 2nd fermentation and just add a week or 2 to primary fermentation. When I have gotten competent with What equipment I have now, I will look into it again.

Will be cleaning everything I got, and the kitchen again, this weekend and starting my attempt.

Edit : First batch postponed.. realized didn't have any Star Sans and no thermometer on the fermentation bucket so ordered and will start when they get here

 

[z-bob]

I've been putting 4 gallon batches in a 6 gallon carboy, and leaving them alone for 3 weeks (4 weeks if it's a big beer.) I don't remove the airlock until I'm ready to bottle because I don't want air to get in. The problem with that is I can't take gravity readings.

A bucket until the krausen falls, then transfer it into the right size carboy is probably a better system if you can keep it clean.

 

[Gavin C]

I've been putting 4 gallon batches in a 6 gallon carboy, and leaving them alone for 3 weeks (4 weeks if it's a big beer.) I don't remove the airlock until I'm ready to bottle because I don't want air to get in. The problem with that is I can't take gravity readings.

A bucket until the krausen falls, then transfer it into the right size carboy is probably a better system if you can keep it clean.

I think your current setup is much better. I think you'd be crazy to change. What would you be hoping to achieve with a transfer to a second vessel.

You can take gravity readings with your current system. No issues whatsoever doing this. I do this for all my beers. Ferment in primary till FG is reached. Usually keg the beers at 2 weeks +/- 2 days once this completed fermentation is confirmed

 

[fuelish]

Since I started concentrating on mead making, I start in buckets just because there's a bit more mucking around involved if adding fruits, SNSs, whatever....when I brewed beer, I always used glass for primary, and NEVER had a mess....a proper big-assed blowoff tube shoved into the carboy mouth and the other end in a large enough container containing water/Starsan/vodka/whatever....all blow-off contained, just an oversized airlock that won't clog

 

[Billy-Klubb]

Buckets are for people that aren't awesome enough to be able to handle a large glass object that could kill you any time it pleases.

Other people will talk about how buckets are lighter and cheaper and don't let light through and are safer and then other people will talk about how glass doesn't easily scratch and thus is better than using infection-prone buckets and then the bucket people will talk about how they never got an infection with their buckets and by the way buckets are way easier to clean and then the glass people will say that glass isn't hard to clean and they like to see the fermentation process and BLAH BLAH FREAKING BLAH.

If you are awesome enough, then get a glass fermentor. If not, then stick with a bucket. That's all. Only you can say if you are truly awesome enough to handle the homebrewing equivalent of an Indian Cobra.

Fun fact: "cobra" is Portuguese for "snake."

brother?

and if you're wicked awesome, you'll aerate by tossing the giant hunk of glass filled with heavy sugar water into the air and catching it a bunch of times. personally, I like to roll it down the basement steps and race it all the way down.

 

[z-bob]

brother?

and if you're wicked awesome, you'll aerate by tossing the giant hunk of glass filled with heavy sugar water into the air and catching it a bunch of times. personally, I like to roll it down the basement steps and race it all the way down.

I did that once, by accident. I didn't get to the bottom landing fast enough.
I'm using a lot more disposable plastic carboys now.

 

[Mouse]

Grrrrr.. every time I get set up to start the temperature rises to the point I can't keep a stable temp ( AC here sucks ) .. what are some people's solutions? Do you have a chest freezer on a high setting or something?

 

[RM-MN]

Grrrrr.. every time I get set up to start the temperature rises to the point I can't keep a stable temp ( AC here sucks ) .. what are some people's solutions? Do you have a chest freezer on a high setting or something?

How about a tub of water to set your fermenter in and keep the water the right temperature by adding frozen bottles of water?

 

[kombat]

I use chest freezers, yes, but they're not set on "high" or anything. I don't believe they're even adjustable. They're just regular chest freezers, and they work just fine with an STC-1000, a heating belt, and a thermowell.

 

[BourbonDevelopment]

I have (2) 3 gallon glass carboys, (1) 6 gallon carboy and (1) 6 gallon bucket. After reading the horror stories about the glass I thought about dumping them, but I instead opted for keepi g each one lashed to a plastic milk crate. Great grip, prevents and risk of the glass clinkinging. Even helps with lifting the bucket so it doesn't suck the sanitizer through the airlock.

 

[ErikRobers]

I mainly use a 6-gallon glass carboy for primary and I always rack to a 5-gallon glass carboy for secondary. Like many others, I enjoy watching the process through the glass.

As far as the whole oxidation and risk of infection I often see people who prefer to ferment the entirety in primary, I don't think it's as big a risk as they say. I haven't been doing this a long time, but I've never had a problem. Take care with your sanitation and make sure the wort doesn't splash too much when you rack to secondary and you'll have zero issues. Sometimes I like to go a little smaller on my batches, and do 3.5-4 gallons instead of 5, so when I do this I use my secondary glass as my primary and a 5-gallon bucket for secondary... again never an issue. Finally, as far as the much feared kraussen mess, for the first 36 hours of fermentation I run a blowoff hose from bung to a gallon sized spring water jug, half full of sanitized water. I have never ever had any messes using this set-up, even before I started using a cooler to keep the ambient temp around the fermenting wort at 62-64 degrees.

If you use some common sense and your sanitation procedures are sound you will find that you will have to put a lot of work and effort to actually cause your final product to come out bad.

*disclaimer* in my statements regarding the concerns that hardcore "ferment in primary only and then bottle" brewers, I am not taking at shots at anyone, so please don't take any offense. I just don't believe that the risks of infection and oxidation are serious concerns so long as common sense and sound sanitation procedures are followed.

 

[kombat]

I just don't believe that the risks of infection and oxidation are serious concerns so long as common sense and sound sanitation procedures are followed.

Agreed. But what perceived benefit do you think you're getting from racking to secondary?

If you're careful, you probably won't ruin your beer, but how is it making it any better? What's the payoff for taking the risk at all?

 

[ErikRobers]

Agreed. But what perceived benefit do you think you're getting from racking to secondary?

If you're careful, you probably won't ruin your beer, but how is it making it any better? What's the payoff for taking the risk at all?

To be perfectly honest, I do it in part because I enjoy the process, but I also get better clarity in the overall finished product. Also, the bottling process is the part I dislike most, so I'm prone to putting it off, and putting it off, and putting it off, etc... it buys me time

Regardless, using a secondary is a process that works for me, and I like using it. Whatever your process, if it works for you, and (in my case) if it's worth it to you, what's the issue? All I'm saying is that I feel like risk of oxidation and infection from using a secondary is overblown, assuming you use common sense and use sound sanitation measures when using a secondary.

I always qualify that statement by stating, "assuming you use some common sense and follow sound sanitation procedures". If you use neither, then yeah, you're begging for trouble.

 

[specharka]

Agreed. But what perceived benefit do you think you're getting from racking to secondary?

If you're careful, you probably won't ruin your beer, but how is it making it any better? What's the payoff for taking the risk at all?

It's not necessary, but sometimes it is convenient.

I make a lot of big beers and harvest yeast from all of them. 3 months in primary would cause too strenuous a loss in viability to wash and re-pitch. If I did more pale ales and lagers I would probably not feel so arsed to push them to secondary.

If I was an expensive dude I would ferment everything in a stainless conical and flush the trub like a Saturday morning hangover.

 

[kombat]

I get the aging beer and harvesting yeast points. Both perfectly valid. But the "clarity" point is dubious. The physics don't support it, and actually suggests the opposite: that if you left the beer undisturbed for an equal overall amount of time, you'd get superior clarity than if you agitate it mid-way through the process. Besides, in my experience, a cold crash and a dose of gelatin will result in stunning clarity in just a few days.