Carbonation mystery...

[KellyHopkinsville]

Hi, I've been getting inconsistent carbonation results, and it's really puzzling me.

Both for an Irish Red Ale (Northern Brewer 1-gallon recipe kit) and a frozen concentrate wine (one gallon; old orchard apple and cranberry) I have filled a plastic "monitor bottle" to keep track of the carbonation after bottling.

I was excited to feel these firm up to almost rock hardness. Then I put the bottles in the fridge and later opened a glass bottle... and there was barely any bubbles at all!

The brews tasted a little sweet, too. What I don't understand is why the plastic bottle has turned to stone but the brew in the bottles are barely in the "tickle your tongue" category.

Background: The Irish Red I used the priming calculator at Brewer's Friend and table sugar. The frozen concentrate wine I used a can of Old Orchard apple juice concentrate to prime the gallon, per the recipe.

The priming liquid appeared to mix well with both brews when I racked into the bottling bucket, and I believe I actually stirred the wine a little.

The glass bottles are 16-oz swing-top. The plastic ones are 16-oz PET from Northern Brewer.

I have gotten satisfactory carbonation in previous brews... in fact, my first batch of concentrate wine had a head on it after I poured!

I'm feeling a bit frustrated. Any input much appreciated.

Thanks

KH

 

[kh54s10]

Are you using new washers on the swing tops? Maybe you are no longer getting a good seal.

 

[balrog]

What @kh54s10 said and how long did you wait before sticking them in fridge?
Also, have randomly selected bottles also had the same low-carb issue?

If random bottles are fine, the washer seals or prime sugar mixing could be the problem. If you didn't wait 3 weeks at 71°F, then time could be the issue and the PET bottle may simply have randomly had better sugar content.

 

[KellyHopkinsville]

Thanks, kh54s10 and Balrog

The best bottle conditioning temp I can get at this time is 66 degrees F. I opened the Irish Red Ale at about three weeks or a little more. The concentrate wine was closer to 2 weeks. I was going by the apparent carbonation as revealed by the plastic bottles.

In fact, I believe all the seals involved on the swing-top bottles have been used before (once), though I'm not sure about that. I was under the impression you could re-use them a few times... not so?

There's one 12-oz crown-capped bottle of the concentrate... I'll try that and see if it's better carbonated than the swing tops.

I haven't opened enough of them to have a "random" sample yet. Guess I'll open a bunch this weekend .

Thanks again for the responses

KH

 

[Wobbly Cat]

A relatively cheap experiment could be to try using carb drops (or something similar) on your next batch. If this works, it tells you your bottles are probably fine and the problem is likely with making/mixing priming sugar, or some inconsistent/less than ideal bottle conditioning times or temperatures.

 

[KellyHopkinsville]

Hi Wobbly

I was looking into the fizz drops... I have a lot of them because of the kits I've purchased from NB. What I read online, though, was that they gave inconsistent carbonation! Also, it seemed I had more control over consistency by stirring in priming sugar to the whole batch and then bottling.

That said, I'm thinking some Cooper's fizz drops and giving them a try... they got good reviews.

KH

 

[TasunkaWitko]

I'm a big fan of these:

http://a.co/98A6q7c

 

[KellyHopkinsville]

Thanks Tasunka... how many of those tabs each would you recommend using for 12-oz, 16-oz and 22-oz bottles?

 

[TasunkaWitko]

I've only bottled in 12-ounce bottles, and I use 4 tablets per bottle. For larger bottles, I'm not so sure, but someone with more experience might be able to pick up the slack. This is for "medium" carbonation. For high carbonation, 5 per bottle; for low carbonation, 3 per bottle.

I also often batch prime with honey, maple syrup or some other thing (agave nectar etc.), if the recipe calls for it - but these tablets are a good "go-to" option that has always been consistent, allowing me to know that I'll have good, medium carbonation so that I can concentrate on the recipe itself.

 

[KellyHopkinsville]

Thanks... I also found some good advice about number of tabs in the "comments" section of the Amazon page. Sorting this situation out gives me a good excuse to do more brewing!

 

[TasunkaWitko]

Exactly!

If you want a really fun carbonation experience, try Edelweiß, sometime ~ follow the recipe exactly, then pitch your yeast, then bottle exactly 3 days later...no priming sugar, tabs etc. The beer finishes fermenting in the bottle and gives a soft, gentle carbonation that really works with the style. I love the stuff, probably the best hefeweizen I've ever made, so far.

 

[GHBWNY]

If it's not a headspace or a priming issue, then it could be leakage. If you're using used bottles and screw-on caps, there's a chance there might be an issue with a minute amount of leakage. Also keep in mind that carbonation which causes the bottle to expand to 'rock-hard' is not necessarily an indication that enough CO2 is being pushed into solution (yet) to carbonate the solution itself. And obviously, it's not being forced into solution if your beer/wine is fizz-less. With a glass bottle, once the pressure from CO2 reaches its maximum force on the interior of the bottle, it is forced into solution. A plastic bottle being flexible (even though it turns rock-hard) might take a little longer.

 

[KellyHopkinsville]

UPDATE

Well, Friday and Saturday I opened a few more bottles, and my thinking now is I have a couple of problems going on simultaneously.

I opened a concentrate wine bottle that used a crown cap and it was under carbonated, which leads me to believe that bad swingtop seals by themselves are not the answer.

One swingtop of wine made a robust "pop!" when I opened it, and the wine inside was perfectly carbed.

Conclusion: My first mission is to ensure thorough mixing of priming solution with brew in the bottling bucket.

I also took a look at my swingtop seals. Found something interesting:

Looks to me like I need to pay more attention to centering the swingtop in the bottle mouth!

I should have checked those seals when before I put all the empty bottles in the sink together. I bet the bottle that went "pop!" was the one with the seal at the bottom of the image.

Next time I bottle, I'm going also going to fill equal numbers of crown caps and swing tops (with fresh gaskets), and see if there's any difference in carbonation between them after controlling for priming.

KH