Carbonation Calculation?

[WissahickonBrew]

I know there are excellent charts and tables available that clearly spell out CO2 pressure according to the beer's temperature. I know there is the shake and roll method vs the set and forget.

My question is how does the VOLUME of beer affect the PSI, temperature and length of time to properly carb?

I know most recommendations for the homebrewer is based on 5 gallon batches. What if I have a 12 gallon batch? What about the pros who have 200 gallons in the brite tank? Do all of the settings for PSI, temp and time stay the same?

Anyone with a recommendation for a quick guide would be greatly appreciated!

 

[palys2]

Your carbonation charts basically tell you how many volumes of co2 will go into solution at a given temperature. This is independent of the volume of liquid as long as you have enough co2 to dissolve into the liquid. Basically, all of the settings stay the same.

 

[WissahickonBrew]

Thanks for jumping in...

So if all settings stay the same, you are saying it takes the same amount of time to carb 10 gallons to a level of 2.2 as it does 100 gallons, as long as there is enough CO2 to supply it? Sounds hard to believe, but I'm no chemist.

QUOTE=palys2;5752398]Your carbonation charts basically tell you how many volumes of co2 will go into solution at a given temperature. This is independent of the volume of liquid as long as you have enough co2 to dissolve into the liquid. Basically, all of the settings stay the same.[/QUOTE]

 

[Bobby_M]

The amount of time it takes is a function of the ratio of surface area between liquid and gas to the total liquid volume. For example, volume, pressure and temp all being equal, a short fat tank will carb much faster than a very tall skinny one. Things change rapidly when there is aggitation or when the incoming CO2 is fed slowly through a diffusion stone. Essentially that sort of thing mimics the short fat tank.

Another way to think of this ratio is that carbing 5 gallons in a 5 gallon corny takes longer than carbing 1 gallon in a 5 gallon carboy. See, the surface area at the liquid/gas remains the same but the amount of CO2 that needs to dissolve is 1/5th.

Again, this only affects how long it takes to get to equilibrium (what the charts are calculating for).

 

[Vigo_Carpathian]

The amount of time it takes is a function of the ratio of surface area between liquid and gas to the total liquid volume. For example, volume, pressure and temp all being equal, a short fat tank will carb much faster than a very tall skinny one. Things change rapidly when there is aggitation or when the incoming CO2 is fed slowly through a diffusion stone. Essentially that sort of thing mimics the short fat tank.

Another way to think of this ratio is that carbing 5 gallons in a 5 gallon corny takes longer than carbing 1 gallon in a 5 gallon carboy. See, the surface area at the liquid/gas remains the same but the amount of CO2 that needs to dissolve is 1/5th.

Again, this only affects how long it takes to get to equilibrium (what the charts are calculating for).

Yes this^

 

[WissahickonBrew]

Thanks for your advice. The second part of your post addresses what I am asking, but does not answer it. I know it will take less time to carb up a smaller batch, conversely more time to do a larger batch. What I really want to know is HOW MUCH TIME? What is the mathematical equation to plug in the variables of pressure + temp + volume + tank shape + agitation level = proper carbonation?

What do the pros use as their guide? There's no way a pro brewer feels his (her) way along every batch? Brew volumes change according to recipes and available ingredients, force carb timing is something I wish I could predict with accuracy.

I've read every thread in HBT going back to 2007 on force carbonation and the stories run the gamut from corny rolling producing drinkable beer in 1 day to 3 weeks are needed for set and forget!

The amount of time it takes is a function of the ratio of surface area between liquid and gas to the total liquid volume. For example, volume, pressure and temp all being equal, a short fat tank will carb much faster than a very tall skinny one. Things change rapidly when there is aggitation or when the incoming CO2 is fed slowly through a diffusion stone. Essentially that sort of thing mimics the short fat tank.

Another way to think of this ratio is that carbing 5 gallons in a 5 gallon corny takes longer than carbing 1 gallon in a 5 gallon carboy. See, the surface area at the liquid/gas remains the same but the amount of CO2 that needs to dissolve is 1/5th.

Again, this only affects how long it takes to get to equilibrium (what the charts are calculating for).

 

[tootal]

Can you explain the amount and vessel you're using? As mentioned, agitation can make it quick! I can carb a 5 gallon corny in 5 minutes using agitation. It's ready to drink right then.

The pro's keep an eye on their gravity and at a certain point shut off the blow off and use the rest of the fermentation to carbonate it.

I understand what you're asking but as for whether there is a formula for your situration I haven't heard of one.

 

[WissahickonBrew]

I can't find the calculator / equation either.

I use a Sabco Select Sankey.

5 minutes is the fastest yet I've heard for carbing a batch of beer!

Can you explain the amount and vessel you're using? As mentioned, agitation can make it quick! I can carb a 5 gallon corny in 5 minutes using agitation. It's ready to drink right then.

The pro's keep an eye on their gravity and at a certain point shut off the blow off and use the rest of the fermentation to carbonate it.

I understand what you're asking but as for whether there is a formula for your situration I haven't heard of one.