8 gallon boil over in a 15 gallon kettle with Fermcap

[carrsgarage]

Am I doing something wrong or am I expecting too much?

I brewed for the first time in a couple of years today and really thought it was going to go smoothly. Instead, it was horrible. I overshot my mash temperature which set the stage for the rest of the day. It got even worse when I moved the wort to the my boil kettle and started to boil.

I have a 15 gallon kettle and put 8 gallons of wort into it and added 16 drops of Fermcap-S. I've got a Steam Slayer mounted to the lid. As the temperature approached boiling (around 200⁰), I turned on the flow to the Steam Slayer. I did a test run last weekend and everything went REALLY well. This time, however, the wort boiled over and caused a hell of a mess.

The Steam Slayer worked pretty well, but I feel like I had more steam (coming out of the drain tube and off the catch bucket) than I expected.

What really bothers me is the boilover. I'd like to brew a 10 gallon batch some day, but I can't seem to prevent boilovers.

This is an electric kettle, if that makes any difference, which I think it might.

 

[RogerGrahl]

Am I doing something wrong or am I expecting too much?

I brewed for the first time in a couple of years today and really thought it was going to go smoothly. Instead, it was horrible. I overshot my mash temperature which set the stage for the rest of the day. It got even worse when I moved the wort to the my boil kettle and started to boil.

I have a 15 gallon kettle and put 8 gallons of wort into it and added 16 drops of Fermcap-S. I've got a Steam Slayer mounted to the lid. As the temperature approached boiling (around 200⁰), I turned on the flow to the Steam Slayer. I did a test run last weekend and everything went REALLY well. This time, however, the wort boiled over and caused a hell of a mess.

The Steam Slayer worked pretty well, but I feel like I had more steam (coming out of the drain tube and off the catch bucket) than I expected.

What really bothers me is the boilover. I'd like to brew a 10 gallon batch some day, but I can't seem to prevent boilovers.

This is an electric kettle, if that makes any difference, which I think it might.

If you are on electric, here are a couple of things to try. First, make sure you are in manual mode on your controller. Auto mode is for mashing. Manual is for boiling. Next, dial your power percentage back when your boil starts. Around 60% should be a good starting point. You can adjust up or down to keep the boil going without boiling over. Let your break subside before putting your lid on, Last, when you do put the condenser lid on, dial the power back again. Around 35% should be a good starting point. You’ll have to experiment here, too. Good luck. Hope this helps. Brew on….

 

[carrsgarage]

Thanks for the tips!
This was the first time with the lid/Steam Slayer and I noticed a huge difference in power percentage needed to keep a boil. Without a lid, 70% seemed pretty good, but I was able to knock it back to 50% and it was still a pretty aggressive boil.
I did have it in automatic thinking it would use 100% power to get near boil and then cut back once it reached 211⁰, but that didn't really work.
Regardless of lid vs. no lid, I feel like I ALWAYS have a huge hot break. Is that normal? Is there anything I can do to reduce it? I thought maybe the Fermcap-S was the ticket, but nope.

 

[DBhomebrew]

I get significant benefit from an ounce of first wort hops. I boil 4.5G in a 5G pot on the inside stove. With attentive manual control and the FWH it all stays in the kettle.

 

[Bobby_M]

When I boil 8 gallons in a 15 gallon pot with the lid OFF, I boil at 55-60% of 5500 watts. When I run the steam slayer, I back that off to about 28% and I don't have to use fermcap at all. Heed the instructions for the SteamSlayer. The exact percentage you can get away with is dependent on a lot of different factors like water temperature, the actual flow rate you get out of your sprayer tip (based on water pressure). Measure the temperature of the waste water coming out of the Steam Slayer and if it's over 140F, you're running your boil too hard.

Side note.... since you mentioned overshooting your mash temp I think you may want to start a thread asking/discussing the use of whatever controller you're running on this kettle because that would impact both the mash temp issues AND the boilover issue.



Instructions:
First, keep in mind that this is a relatively new process for small scale homebrewing and we're all learning the best practices. When you buy this unit, consider yourself a part of a beta test. These instructions will evolve.

1. Clamp the main unit to the existing kettle port and the sprayer TC to the top of the unit. The integrated hose barb should be facing down towards the floor.
2. Connect the 1/4" Poly line to your source water fitting and the shutoff valve on the top of the Steam Slayer. Making sure the ends are cut cleanly, simply push the tubing into the fittings all the way. Note. This valve is NOT for regulating water pressure/flow. When in operation, this top valve should be fully open.
3. Install the silicone waste tubing on the unit's barb and attach the holder clip to the end. We include a 5/8" OD stainless steel ring that should be inserted into the end of the silicone to expand the tubing large enough to fit the holder clip tightly. The waste tubing should be trimmed so that it only extends into your catch bucket/vessel by 1-2 inches. The open end of this tubing must never be submerged or the steam slayer will not work properly. In addition to not submerging the waste tube in standing water, you must also keep major bends/dips out of this hose. Any blockage to this tubing with even a small section of solid water will adversely affect the performance.
4. Once your boil begins, turn on the cooling water and place your kettle lid on the kettle. Since the condensing action creates a mild vacuum, the lid does not need a gasket. If you notice steam leaking out of the lid, make sure it is not warped creating extra spaces.
5. Adjust your boil intensity to approximately HALF of what you're used to using and plan for about half as much boil off. For a typical example, we used to run our 5500 watt element at 65% when the kettle is full of 7 gallons and the lid off. We experienced 1.5 gallons per hour of boil off. With the Steam Slayer installed, we run at 32% and experience .75 gallons of boil off per hour. In other words, to use the Steam Slayer, your electric kettle must be equipped with a power controller.

 

[RogerGrahl]

Thanks for the tips!
This was the first time with the lid/Steam Slayer and I noticed a huge difference in power percentage needed to keep a boil. Without a lid, 70% seemed pretty good, but I was able to knock it back to 50% and it was still a pretty aggressive boil.
I did have it in automatic thinking it would use 100% power to get near boil and then cut back once it reached 211⁰, but that didn't really work.
Regardless of lid vs. no lid, I feel like I ALWAYS have a huge hot break. Is that normal? Is there anything I can do to reduce it? I thought maybe the Fermcap-S was the ticket, but nope.

When I boil 8 gallons in a 15 gallon pot with the lid OFF, I boil at 55-60% of 5500 watts. When I run the steam slayer, I back that off to about 28% and I don't have to use fermcap at all. Heed the instructions for the SteamSlayer. The exact percentage you can get away with is dependent on a lot of different factors like water temperature, the actual flow rate you get out of your sprayer tip (based on water pressure). Measure the temperature of the waste water coming out of the Steam Slayer and if it's over 140F, you're running your boil too hard.

Side note.... since you mentioned overshooting your mash temp I think you may want to start a thread asking/discussing the use of whatever controller you're running on this kettle because that would impact both the mash temp issues AND the boilover issue.



Instructions:
First, keep in mind that this is a relatively new process for small scale homebrewing and we're all learning the best practices. When you buy this unit, consider yourself a part of a beta test. These instructions will evolve.

1. Clamp the main unit to the existing kettle port and the sprayer TC to the top of the unit. The integrated hose barb should be facing down towards the floor.
2. Connect the 1/4" Poly line to your source water fitting and the shutoff valve on the top of the Steam Slayer. Making sure the ends are cut cleanly, simply push the tubing into the fittings all the way. Note. This valve is NOT for regulating water pressure/flow. When in operation, this top valve should be fully open.
3. Install the silicone waste tubing on the unit's barb and attach the holder clip to the end. We include a 5/8" OD stainless steel ring that should be inserted into the end of the silicone to expand the tubing large enough to fit the holder clip tightly. The waste tubing should be trimmed so that it only extends into your catch bucket/vessel by 1-2 inches. The open end of this tubing must never be submerged or the steam slayer will not work properly. In addition to not submerging the waste tube in standing water, you must also keep major bends/dips out of this hose. Any blockage to this tubing with even a small section of solid water will adversely affect the performance.
4. Once your boil begins, turn on the cooling water and place your kettle lid on the kettle. Since the condensing action creates a mild vacuum, the lid does not need a gasket. If you notice steam leaking out of the lid, make sure it is not warped creating extra spaces.
5. Adjust your boil intensity to approximately HALF of what you're used to using and plan for about half as much boil off. For a typical example, we used to run our 5500 watt element at 65% when the kettle is full of 7 gallons and the lid off. We experienced 1.5 gallons per hour of boil off. With the Steam Slayer installed, we run at 32% and experience .75 gallons of boil off per hour. In other words, to use the Steam Slayer, your electric kettle must be equipped with a power controller.

This! Excellent description and great advice.

 

[RogerGrahl]

Thanks for the tips!
This was the first time with the lid/Steam Slayer and I noticed a huge difference in power percentage needed to keep a boil. Without a lid, 70% seemed pretty good, but I was able to knock it back to 50% and it was still a pretty aggressive boil.
I did have it in automatic thinking it would use 100% power to get near boil and then cut back once it reached 211⁰, but that didn't really work.
Regardless of lid vs. no lid, I feel like I ALWAYS have a huge hot break. Is that normal? Is there anything I can do to reduce it? I thought maybe the Fermcap-S was the ticket, but nope.

As soon as you start to see a boil, take your power from 100% down to about 60%. If you see the foam rising too much, kill your power completely until the foam subsides. Then turn your power back on and reduce it some more. It takes a few brews to figure out the power settings that will work for you.

 

[carrsgarage]

I will sheepishly admit that I read the instructions for the Steam Slayer before I bought one, and forgot everything I read. I'll do better next time.

I've been so afraid of losing the boil that I've been trying not to reduce the power of the element too much.

I've been trying to use CraftbeerPi, but it just doesn't seem like the automation it offers does what I really want it to. I'll keep trying, but I'm considering swapping over to BruControl.

 

[Bobby_M]

It's best to get past the hot break period (less than 5 minutes) prior to starting up the steam slayer. Make sure the foam folds back into the boil, then add your hops, adjust the boil and put the lid on.

 

[carrsgarage]

Update: I followed the advice you folks suggested and I have NEVER had a better boil!
As soon as the wort started to boil, I backed off on the power percentage and let it boil for about 5 minutes before putting the lid with Steam Slayer on. I then knocked the power down to about 30% and enjoyed a wonderful 60 minute boil without any issues - even during hop additions.

Thanks for the help!

 

[Spartan1979]

I stopped using Fermcap when I went to electric. I've only had one boil over and that was because I raised the percentage after I started running wort through my chiller and forgot to turn it back down.