Can't lager, want to make Oktoberfest

[millerd66]

I received an Oktoberfest all extract kit, but I just do not have the ability to lager so I was thinking here are some options.

1. Use ale yeast as a substitute.
2. Lager it after I bottle in the fridge.
3. Wait and do this in the fall or winter, when I guess it is cold enough where I can lager it outside on my porch or in my garage?

Any or other ideas are welcome and thank you

 

[VikeMan]

Lagering is cold storage after fermentation, at very cold temperatures, typically below 40F. Is that what you mean, or do mean Lager fermentation, which is traditionally done at about 50F, give or take?

 

[GrogNerd]

I brewed a Maibock using Kolsch yeast & lagering after bottling

entered brew club competition & although I didn't win anything, it got pretty high scores & no one dinged it or even noticed it wasn't a true lager

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

Yup, Kolsch yeast is what I'd suggest too. Ferment warm, or your room temp then lager cold in your fridge.

I have used Kolsch yeast for many lager type recipes. Also don't be afraid to use an ale yeast in your Oktoberfest. I would suggest a clean fermenting one like Safale-05. I have used it with great success too.

Happy Brewing!

 

[AlexKay]

AS @VikeMan says, there are two separate questions: what temperature can you maintain for fermentation, and can you keep the beer near-freezing for a few months afterwards.

If you can't manage a cold fermentation, I'd use W34/70. It comes out clean at most any temperature. While I love kolsch yeast, I actually think it won't give you the results you're looking for if you're up at, say, 68 F. (If you're down at 60-62 F, then give Lallemand Koln a try.)

Once you've fermented and carbonated, you can "lager" simply by storing your bottles in the coldest part of your fridge for a good while before you drink them.

If you don't lager at all, you'll end up with a cloudier beer that still tastes pretty good.

 

[dmtaylor]

I have had very good success with Diamond and S-189 fermenting in the upper 60s Fahrenheit. And good old S-04 will produce a passable "lager" at room temp. Also Wyeast 1007 is a great one to try. I'll bet most people would never know it wasn't fermented cold, with any of these yeasts. No worries.

 

[AlexKay]

If you don't store it cold, Wyeast 1007 will take forever to clear. It'll taste good, though.

 

[millerd66]

Lagering is cold storage after fermentation, at very cold temperatures, typically below 40F. Is that what you mean, or do mean Lager fermentation, which is traditionally done at about 50F, give or take?

lager fermentation

 

[mantaray]

@millerd66 - I know you said you can't lager, but let me tell you my process.
Maybe you can manage something akin.

Basically, I have this large insulated zipper bag, one of those things you put your frozen goods at the grocery store into but fermenter sized.

https://www.morebeer.com/products/cool-brewing-fermentation-cooler-bag.html
But the process I follow is to chill beer for transfer, transfer and then put the fermenter in the insulated bag.

I have a bunch of 32oz containers with lids that I fill with water and put in the freezer. They are bottle shaped and the kind of thing that yogurt and other milk products come in, but basically any similar plastic container would work: two-liters, gatorade bottles, etc.

I then surround the fermenter with these frozen containers, stick an inkbird probe to the side of the fermenter, and zip the whole thing up. When pitching temp is reached, I pitch the yeast and rezip the whole mess.

Basically every morning I check the temp, pull any fully thawed containers out, replace with frozen ones.
I do this until I can get and hold the temp in the low 50s. This usually takes a day or so.

After that it really just becomes swapping frozen containers once a day for a week.
Then I do the whole brulosophy "Lager Method" and start to ramp up.

Cold crashing is hard since getting the beer that cold is difficult, but the cold crash isn't required either.

Anyway, hope this inspires you to try lagering, or at least work up some crazy process of your own.
Cheers!

 

[DosGatosBrewing]

I use Safale US-05 in my Sam Adams Oktoberfest clone. It's very popular

 

[wepeeler]

AS @VikeMan says, there are two separate questions: what temperature can you maintain for fermentation, and can you keep the beer near-freezing for a few months afterwards.

If you can't manage a cold fermentation, I'd use W34/70. It comes out clean at most any temperature. While I love kolsch yeast, I actually think it won't give you the results you're looking for if you're up at, say, 68 F. (If you're down at 60-62 F, then give Lallemand Koln a try.)

Once you've fermented and carbonated, you can "lager" simply by storing your bottles in the coldest part of your fridge for a good while before you drink them.

If you don't lager at all, you'll end up with a cloudier beer that still tastes pretty good.

Omega Kolsch II! 66-69F!

 

[rtstrider]

I'd like to cast a vote for Wyeast 1007 fermented around 60F

 

[millerd66]

@millerd66 - I know you said you can't lager, but let me tell you my process.
Maybe you can manage something akin.

Basically, I have this large insulated zipper bag, one of those things you put your frozen goods at the grocery store into but fermenter sized.

https://www.morebeer.com/products/cool-brewing-fermentation-cooler-bag.html
But the process I follow is to chill beer for transfer, transfer and then put the fermenter in the insulated bag.

I have a bunch of 32oz containers with lids that I fill with water and put in the freezer. They are bottle shaped and the kind of thing that yogurt and other milk products come in, but basically any similar plastic container would work: two-liters, gatorade bottles, etc.

I then surround the fermenter with these frozen containers, stick an inkbird probe to the side of the fermenter, and zip the whole thing up. When pitching temp is reached, I pitch the yeast and rezip the whole mess.

Basically every morning I check the temp, pull any fully thawed containers out, replace with frozen ones.
I do this until I can get and hold the temp in the low 50s. This usually takes a day or so.

After that it really just becomes swapping frozen containers once a day for a week.
Then I do the whole brulosophy "Lager Method" and start to ramp up.

Cold crashing is hard since getting the beer that cold is difficult, but the cold crash isn't required either.

Anyway, hope this inspires you to try lagering, or at least work up some crazy process of your own.
Cheers!

That is way too much work for me. I would rather wait until its cold out and lager ferment outside or in my garage.

 

[millerd66]

I use Safale US-05 in my Sam Adams Oktoberfest clone. It's very popular

so you Oktoberfest is an "ale" which is fine by me

 

[eliastheodosis]

If you can keep the temps in the low to mid 60s for the first few days of fermentation then that's really all you need. Use Diamond or 34/70, the german ale yeast, or a kolsch yeast and it will be great. Condition cold in the bottle after carbonation, like @AlexKay mentioned, and you'll get a solid beer. No need to wait until fall to ferment it.

It's a separate thing from the fermentation, but conditioning it cold for a while after bottling and carbing will really help it clear and taste more lager-like. If you can throw all the bottles in the fridge and forget about them for a few weeks it will be worth the wait.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

so you Oktoberfest is an "ale" which is fine by me

Not to confuse anyone but an Oktoberfest style is a lager. Many folks including myself brew it as an ale.

In my case I have brewed it both ways but prefer it and many other "lagers" to be brewed with an ale or Koslch yeast. Sure, it's off style but as you have read several others are doing the same thing and many aren't even noticing the difference.

Brewers choice.

 

[Protos]

Oktoberfest is a well-defined traditional style, which is by definition a beer fermented with a bottom-fermenting yeast. Otherwise it's not an Oktoberfest, even if the resulting top-fermented beer tastes similarly.

If anything, a bottom-fermented Oktoberfest may not be lagered in the strict sence and still be deemed an Oktoberfest because the ultimate defining features of the style are the grist and the bottom-fermented yeast. True lagering is extremely desirable, but technically not absolutely essential, because you may emulate the effect of lagering by prolonged aging at ambient temperature.

My advise is to avoid bastardizing the noble style with strange top-fermenting yeasts and just ferment it at whatever temperature you have, and then mature it long. There's a dedicated thread on Warm-Fermented Lagers, full of reports of brewing decent lagers at room temperatures. The worst thing that might happen is you getting a tiny bit more fruity and estery Lager (which will be even less apparent atop of the strongish and malty flavour profile of the Oktoberfest style).
If you ferment it, however, at ambient temperature AND with a strange top-fermenting yeast, you'll get a Frankensteinbeer, which might be called an "American Amber", or an "Irish Red", or whatever else ale style happens to fit closer, but never an Oktoberfest, just never.

If you're able to mature it bottled in the fridge, it's even better. Oktoberfest has been historically one of the longest-matured standard-strength Lagers, half a year (March to October) being the standard, so you'll have plenty of time for the flavour to "settle", whether you mature it warm or cold.

 

[AlexKay]

An Oktoberfest for Protos:

5 lbs. Maris Otter
3 lbs. flaked maize
0.5 lb. Briess 40L
0.5 lb. Briess 120 L
0.5 lb. lactose

Single infusion mash, 60 minutes @ 148 F

14 g Idaho-7 @ 60 min.
14 g Cluster @ 5 min.
14 g Cascade, whirlpool
28 g Crystal, dry hop

Omega Lutra Kveik

(I bet this would turn out well, too.)

 

[DoctorDuvel]

For Houston brewery Saint Arnold's, their Oktoberfest is actually an ale, and it's fairly popular.
Not that I love the style, but the best examples I've had still are the true German-made ones, which are done properly/traditionally.

 

[Protos]

An Oktoberfest for Protos:

What do you think, would it be equal to bastardising this perfect and tasty recipe if I add some unwashed organic potato peelings to the secomdary? They say they might bring in some interestimg yeast strains and add a very cute haze to the beer.

 

[Pennine]

An Oktoberfest for Protos:

5 lbs. Maris Otter
3 lbs. flaked maize
0.5 lb. Briess 40L
0.5 lb. Briess 120 L
0.5 lb. lactose

Single infusion mash, 60 minutes @ 148 F

14 g Idaho-7 @ 60 min.
14 g Cluster @ 5 min.
14 g Cascade, whirlpool
28 g Crystal, dry hop

Omega Lutra Kveik

(I bet this would turn out well, too.)

Fermented at 100f

 

[AlexKay]

What do you think, would it be equal to bastardising this perfect and tasty recipe if I add some unwashed organic potato peelings to the secomdary? They say they might bring in some interestimg yeast strains and add a very cute haze to the beer.

I’ve tried to make kartoffelbier 3 times now, and from my first spectacular failure I can tell you to keep potato peels far, far away from your beer.

Last kartoffelbier was pretty good, actually.

 

[Protos]

I can tell you to keep potato peels far, far away from your beer.

Well, I'll follow your advise...

Then, what about adding some live slugs into the primary? We'll be getting almost an Oyster Stout, and even better, since no crunchy shells are involved!

 

[DoctorDuvel]

You can level-up and use mountain oysters.

 

[Yesfan]

An Oktoberfest for Protos:

5 lbs. Maris Otter
3 lbs. flaked maize
0.5 lb. Briess 40L
0.5 lb. Briess 120 L
0.5 lb. lactose

Single infusion mash, 60 minutes @ 148 F

14 g Idaho-7 @ 60 min.
14 g Cluster @ 5 min.
14 g Cascade, whirlpool
28 g Crystal, dry hop

Omega Lutra Kveik

(I bet this would turn out well, too.)

LOL! "Rekt toberfest"

 

[camonick]

You can level-up and use mountain oysters.

I love those, but not in my beer.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

I received an Oktoberfest all extract kit, but I just do not have the ability to lager so I was thinking here are some options.

1. Use ale yeast as a substitute.
2. Lager it after I bottle in the fridge.
3. Wait and do this in the fall or winter, when I guess it is cold enough where I can lager it outside on my porch or in my garage?

Any or other ideas are welcome and thank you

Did you find any valuable answers to your questions? Lots of great information and comments. I hope this doesn't make you consider a new hobby.

 

[NSMikeD]

Oktoberfest is a well-defined traditional style, which is by definition a beer fermented with a bottom-fermenting yeast. Otherwise it's not an Oktoberfest, even if the resulting top-fermented beer tastes similarly.

If anything, a bottom-fermented Oktoberfest may not be lagered in the strict sence and still be deemed an Oktoberfest because the ultimate defining features of the style are the grist and the bottom-fermented yeast. True lagering is extremely desirable, but technically not absolutely essential, because you may emulate the effect of lagering by prolonged aging at ambient temperature.

My advise is to avoid bastardizing the noble style with strange top-fermenting yeasts and just ferment it at whatever temperature you have, and then mature it long. There's a dedicated thread on Warm-Fermented Lagers, full of reports of brewing decent lagers at room temperatures. The worst thing that might happen is you getting a tiny bit more fruity and estery Lager (which will be even less apparent atop of the strongish and malty flavour profile of the Oktoberfest style).
If you ferment it, however, at ambient temperature AND with a strange top-fermenting yeast, you'll get a Frankensteinbeer, which might be called an "American Amber", or an "Irish Red", or whatever else ale style happens to fit closer, but never an Oktoberfest, just never.

If you're able to mature it bottled in the fridge, it's even better. Oktoberfest has been historically one of the longest-matured standard-strength Lagers, half a year (March to October) being the standard, so you'll have plenty of time for the flavour to "settle", whether you mature it warm or cold.

^ this. +1.

You’re not set up to lager and unlikely will be in the very near future. So the only downside as mentioned is that it’s likely it will have characteristics not traditionally is a high quality lager but it will be good.

Better to follow is the recipe and continue to get brewing experience

And take good notes so you can compare when you are set up to brew lagers traditionally.

relax…..

 

[VikeMan]

My 2 cents.... make an Amber Ale, and call it what it is.

 

[rallenhall]

Before I had temperature control I'd use 34/70 or WY2124 with the "wet t-shirt and fan" technique. Made some very acceptable lagers at ambient basement temps.