Canning Jar Trub/Yeast Harvester for Conical

[jcorni]

Just curious with all that yeast do you plan on a yeast starter? Or just pitch what's needed. This is a great idea,I will be ordering lids.
Cheers, Joe

 

[maierhof]

Ah! Now I'm on the same page with you. Looking forward to seeing what you end up with.

I will post here when I am done. Count on it being about a month unfortunately - I had shoulder reconstruction 3 months ago and was fine until I picked up my boil kettle as I was cleaning it the old way - it is going to be a few weeks until I can put pressure on it again...

I'm not counting on a jar full of air to provide enough O2 to make the yeast happy. What I did was to attach the emptied jar, let it refill with trub, add yeast, and drop in an O2 stone for about a minute of pure O2.

Excellent - nice to hear this!

An excellent idea! I'll soon have quite a bank of yeasts to choose from.

I love harvesting yeast almost as much as I love mixing them up to see what I come up with! I started playing with yeast mixes back when I was in my sourdough bread phase... unfortunately beer has eclipsed that hobby =:>

 

[PlinyTheMiddleAged]

Just curious with all that yeast do you plan on a yeast starter? Or just pitch what's needed. This is a great idea,I will be ordering lids.
Cheers, Joe

With that much yeast, I'm not sure I need a starter. I suppose I could fill half pint jars and pitch one of those in a batch. I guess I should figure out how to figure out how much yeast I have.

 

[maierhof]

Holy Shiznit - getting all the parts for this thing was expensive!
I just spent around $120 for:
6 x Tank Post & Dip Tube Nipple - Weld-in-Place - Stainless Steel (TankNipple-WIP 15C07103ih) $26.58
3 x Cornelius & AEB - Spartan - Super Champion. Gas IN (TankPlug-CorneliusGAS-15C07115IH) $29.55
3 x Cornelius & AEB - Spartan - Super Champion. Liquid OUT (TankPlug-CorneliusLIQ-15C07116IH) $29.55
3 x Diptube - Liq out - Firestone/Spartan Straight (DiptubeStrght-5gal - 15C07129IH) $33.75

My idea is to have a corny disconnect post attached twice on each lid one gas one line w/ diptube - then attach my line tube from the fermenter into the liquid side of this lid into a half gallon ball jar and use a pressure release gauge from morebeer that I use during transfers on the gas side to take the o2 out of the jar and prevent the exploding jar trick.

I will use this method after one day of waiting for the temps to be just right before I pitch and then I will take out as much trub as I can (and of course a little wort too =:<) and I then pitch the yeast in my 15.5g sanke (10g batch). After the cold crash I will take out the yeast before I transfer the beer to the serving keg via the same method. This method should be great! Thank you for finding these lids!! Yeast transfer w/ no mess now!!!

I will post as I do it - or did you want me to start my own thread? I think I might do that to leave you guys room to talk...

 

[paguy]

Great idea! Maybe I missed something but where do I find these stainless lids? I'm ready to rock on this one!

John

 

[PlinyTheMiddleAged]

paguy,

Here you go (from Post #9):
http://www.ecojarz.com/products/3-pack-reusable-stainless-steel-jar-lids/

I harvested yeast the other day prior to dry hopping. Easy peasy - just detach the mason jar and pour yeast into a clean, sanitized fresh jar.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1425615367.286157.jpg

But, you don't really even have to do that. I saved 8 oz of yeast. I could have just put a lid on the quart jar - I just don't have a need for a quart of S-04.

Saturday, I pressure transfer in to a CO2 filled keg. No oxygen since pitching yeast. I'm looking forward to a nice IPA in another week or so.

Cheers!

 

[paguy]

Thanks Pliny! One more piece to the puzzle. I'll be fermenting in no time.

 

[PlinyTheMiddleAged]

Just a quick follow up on bottling...

Did a pressure transfer from conical to keg on Saturday - a few lessons learned to address next time I do that (like pull the relief valve on the CO2 purged keg prior to hooking the beer transfer line up to the conical).

Anyway, based on the amount of yeast that was in the bottom of the conical, I'd say (at least for this beer) that a quart jar was just about perfect. There was probably only about a quarter cup of yeast left.

I also have to figure out how to deal with dry hops. I just tossed them in the conical un bagged so I ended up with some hop particulate in the keg. Options would be to bag the hops or to attach a CO2 purged jar to give the hops a place to settle. I'm leaning towards the second option.

So far so good!

 

[Artifishal]

I find that hops from dry hopping do more floating and suspending than they do settling out. I'd bag them.

 

[nacho2100]

it seems that you could add a filter underneath the ss lid and put the hops in the mason jar, just connecting it a third time. That would probably be the cleanest way to do it no?

 

[PlinyTheMiddleAged]

it seems that you could add a filter underneath the ss lid and put the hops in the mason jar, just connecting it a third time. That would probably be the cleanest way to do it no?

I really like this idea, but I think that most of the hoppiness would remain in the canning jar. Since the hops could only get to the beer in the conical through the small opening between the jar and the conical, I'd guess that you wouldn't get the full benefit of the dry hops. That's a really good idea though.

I find that hops from dry hopping do more floating and suspending than they do settling out. I'd bag them.

I'll probably end up going this route. Put some stainless steel washers in a hop bag along with the hops and suspend the hop bag in the beer using dental floss. I'd get decent exposure of the entire volume of beer to the suspended hops but still keep the hop particulate contained.

 

[paguy]

Just a note. I bought 3 of the ecojars lids. Not too happy with the fit. I was able to pull the top off after tightening it. Don't feel secure at all with that. I do love the idea though with the mason jars. If I could only get better jar bands it would work. I'm determined to make this work.

 

[Artifishal]

Just a note. I bought 3 of the ecojars lids. Not too happy with the fit. I was able to pull the top off after tightening it. Don't feel secure at all with that. I do love the idea though with the mason jars. If I could only get better jar bands it would work. I'm determined to make this work.

I'm really surprised they pulled off. You were using regular Ball jar bands? Hmm. I'm hooking mine up to a plastic conical so I ended up using the regular Ball lids with a 1 1/2" hole drilled in the top and tightened on with a 1 1/2" threaded pvc through the hole like a bulkhead. Works perfectly. View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1426554289.990638.jpg

 

[paguy]

Yup, they were Balls. They are the small mouth too. I do like your idea. I may try that down the line. Thanks for putting that up Atrifishal.

 

[Artifishal]

Yup, they were Balls. They are the small mouth too. I do like your idea. I may try that down the line. Thanks for putting that up Atrifishal.

Ahh, small mouth. Sorry to hear. Everything I've dealt with has been with wide mouth. The wide mouth ecojarz lids stay on too. I'm pretty confident that'd work for you. I did buy the wide ecojarz stainless ones but couldn't get a clean hole in them so ended up just using stock lids. The beer doesn't actually touch them anyways, with my set up. Hard to explain but the way my threaded pvc and nut protrude down about a 1/4" and the fact that it's air tight make it so there is a bit of air trapped there. It will fill with co2 quickly so I'm not worried about it.

 

[paguy]

I wonder if I could do the same thing with a triclover stainless fitting?

 

[PlinyTheMiddleAged]

Just a note. I bought 3 of the ecojars lids. Not too happy with the fit. I was able to pull the top off after tightening it. Don't feel secure at all with that. I do love the idea though with the mason jars. If I could only get better jar bands it would work. I'm determined to make this work.

I had the same issue. I did find a combination a bands and jars that worked though. I was able to get a very secure joining of the lid and the jar that would not pull free. I'll see if I can find a brand on the jars and bands that worked for me.

The other choice would be to make thinner gaskets. The supplied gaskets are pretty thick.

 

[PlinyTheMiddleAged]

I definitely used quart sized Ball brand jars. The bands are silver colored - I don't know the brand but I don't think they're Ball. Maybe Kerr??? I think Ball bands are yellow gold colored. Oh, I'm using narrow mouth lids.

Here's a post from WPStraussberg showing that he made his own gaskets.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=5404765

 

[paguy]

Ok, I tried a couple of different jar bands I had laying around. I found a combination that seems to hold well. I can't pull it off. I have my triclamp soldered on to the stainless lid. It's hooked up to my newly made plastic conical with it's very first batch, it's the left hand milk stout clone. Boy I hope it holds! I'll have a big mess on my hands if it doesn't. I'm sure it will though. I'll update if I think of anything that might be of interest. Thanks guys!

 

[PlinyTheMiddleAged]

paguy,

Did you try a few different bands from the same brand or did one brand fit more securely than another. This seems to be a not uncommon issue. It'd be nice to have a clear solution.

Thanks!

 

[paguy]

Pliny, not sure I can completely clear the air on this one. All the bands that have are Ball. Some are silver, some are brass. I didn't try enough to narrow it down. I will say this, I may have been mistaken as to how easily the lid pulled off before. I finally had success after I made the trifitting soldered to the lid. The pull was even then. Before grabbing and squeezing the lid may have deformed a bit, enough to have it pull off. Also I think if you tighten too much and it skips over the jar threads it may damage the threads on the band. Not sure if any of the above makes sense??

 

[PlinyTheMiddleAged]

paguy,

Thanks - I was struggling with the brass colored bands as well. Like you, I was able to pull the lid off the jar after trying to tighten it down. When I switched to the silver band, I had no problems at all. Strange thing is that to my eye, there is no difference between the bands other than the color. Maybe the threads on the silver band are deeper and therefore less prone to "strip"?

The silver band that I used was very secure - I struggled to remove the lid of the jar once I pulled it off of the conical. I ended up having to use a plumber's strap wrench to remove the lid.

I hope this works out as good for you as it has for me. Cheers!

 

[Artifishal]

Does it feel like we are on to something too good to be true? Do you guys have any concern that the little yeast guys can't do their job properly through the neck that we are confining them to?

I don't know. I know when they are in their prime there is a lot of fluid motion going on in there. Maybe worst case it takes a day or two longer to complete? Has anyone noticed their fermentation time taking longer or not fully attenuating?

 

[Roadliner]

This looks pretty awesome

 

[PlinyTheMiddleAged]

Artifishal,

That did kind of cross my mind. However, in my go at this, the yeast were very active and definitely not confined to the jar. The wort in the jar turned cloudy and remained cloudy after I pitched yeast. After several days (I'll take better notes next time), the yeast dropped. I left the jar attached for several more days and then pulled right before dry hopping.

So, my observations are that the main fermentation proceeds as per usual - the fermentation is not confined to the canning jar only and the yeast in the jar do not have to wait for fresh wort to come to them. The yeast are everywhere in the fermenter (and the population is largest in the jar after they drop).

I thought that maybe the funky tasting byproducts of fermentation might be more prevalent because a nice dispersed population of yeast isn't there to clean up after themselves. However, my first batch of beer through the conical tastes pretty good (it's a hoppy pale ale). I do control fermentation temps.

And really, this is nothing new. Folks have been dumping yeast out of their conicals or harvesting via sight glasses since the invention of the conical. This gizmo just makes it easier and limits exposure to oxygen (it's as practically close to zero as one can get).

This does work really well! I'll give it another go on Sunday. I'll keep better notes of the timeline for this one.

Good luck with yours!

 

[Artifishal]

Thank you Pliny. Makes sense. Great explanation and I'm excited to give it another go. I now have one of each size Ball jar and plan to remove the first one, a small half pint jar, after three hours or so once it fills with trub and hot break. Then I'll replace with a quart size jar, pre filled with wort, then pitch the yeast. This is for s five gallon batch. For a ten I'll double the size of those two jars.

Thoughts?

 

[paguy]

Atrifishal, why fill the jars with wort? If it's to prevent oxygen, I feel it would be just fine to add it to the wort at this time in the fermentation if not beneficial.

 

[PlinyTheMiddleAged]

Atrifishal, why fill the jars with wort? If it's to prevent oxygen, I feel it would be just fine to add it to the wort at this time in the fermentation if not beneficial.

I agree. Go ahead and attach a jar filled with air prior to pitching yeast. Here's what the process looks like:

Attach an empty jar and fill the conical with wort. I let the wort settle for about 12 hours or so. I ended up with a small amount of trub in the bottom of the jar. I remove the jar, pour the clear wort back in the top of the fermenter, toss the trub, sanitize the jar and reattach it just full of air. It refills with wort and then I oxygenate the wort and pitch yeast.

Now, after that, I'd be careful to not introduce oxygen. But prior to pitching yeast, you want some oxygen so don't worry about a jar full of air. But let's say you're going to save your yeast and you're going to dry hop. If that's the case, after you remove the jar of yeast, then install that jar full of sterilized wort and toss in your dry hops. You won't oxidize your beer and the jar will catch the dry hops when they settle.

In summary - before pitching yeast, don't worry about air. After pitching yeast, oxygen is evil.

 

[Artifishal]

Getting ready to give it another go. Friday night with the neighbors while we watch the Spartans NCAA game. Very excited.

Small leak though. Water is very slowly seeping out through the threads of the threaded nipple that goes through the lid of the jar.

I'm sure a few wraps of Teflon tape will do it. What are your thoughts, anyone, about Teflon tape being in contact with the fermenting beer?View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1427324350.674996.jpgView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1427324385.333510.jpg

 

[PlinyTheMiddleAged]

Artifishal,

I can't see Teflon tape being an issue at all. It's used all over for plumbing. And I've seen others here using it in various places in their rigs. The only "issue" that I see with it is that you should probably retape it every time you use it so that you can easily sanitize it - take the assembly apart, remove tape, sanitize, put on new tape, reassemble, and use.

Nice job!