Cane & Ebel Clone help?

[dummkauf]

Why the change in the hop schedule?

Based on the quote from 2 Bros, they brewed this as normal but got a much higher efficiency than expected, thus the imperial C&E, which would imply that they used the standard hop schedule. So to recreate this you would have 1 of 2 options:

1.) Increase the efficiency of your brew rig to bump the ABV up.
2.) Increase the base malts to hit the new target ABV.

You appear to have increased both the hops and the malts, which while I'm sure it will still be a tasty brew, I'm not sure if that would be the best approach if you are trying to recreate 2 Brothers mistake that created the Imperial C&E.

That said, keep me posted as I'm curious how your version turns out.

 

[starman]

I guess I was nosing around on probrewer and ran across some discussions on scaling pilot batches and how hop utilization varies with equipment. It looks like a wild card as the pros are dialing in new gear.

"As an example, the author has found that a value of 3.4 is appropriate in his brewery when scaling a 10 gallon recipe to a batch of 17 barrels. However, this may be completely different on your system, and we urge you experiment with a known recipe and "tweak" this number until the IBU values reflect accurate, known values."

Since 2B overshot the ABV, I figure the alpha might have been higher too.

Also, guessing this one might need to condition longer I'd like to frontload to offset some of the decay. Ive never done a RIIPA, so more research and feedback is certainly needed before brew day.

Thanks!

 

[MichaelsBrewing]

Don't want to lose this recipe so I'm now subscribed. .

 

[brewtime]

I am going to brew this beer this week I am going to change up the hops tho since ZI can not get simcoe I am going to use Falconers flight

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: #69 Hop Rod Toad
Brewer: Drew Morgan
Asst Brewer:
Style: Specialty Beer
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size (fermenter): 6.00 gal
Boil Size: 7.50 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.50 gal
Estimated OG: 1.074 SG
Estimated Color: 14.2 SRM
Estimated IBU: 61.3 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
10 lbs 8.0 oz Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 66.6 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Rye Malt (4.7 SRM) Grain 3 9.5 %
8.3 oz Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 6 3.3 %
8.3 oz Melanoiden Malt (20.0 SRM) Grain 5 3.3 %
2.2 oz Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 8 0.9 %
8.3 oz Crystal Rye Malt (49.0 SRM) Grain 7 3.3 %
1 lbs 0.7 oz Thai Palm Sugar [Boil for75 min](3.0 SRM Sugar 16 6.6 %
0.77 oz Falconers Flight [11.40 %] - Boil 60.0 m Hop 9 33.5 IBUs
1 lbs 0.6 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 4 6.6 %
0.51 oz Falconers Flight [11.40 %] - Boil 30.0 m Hop 10 11.4 IBUs
0.51 oz Falconers Flight [11.40 %] - Boil 25.0 m Hop 11 9.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Falconers Flight [11.40 %] - Boil 0.0 mi Hop 13 0.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Falconers Flight [11.40 %] - Boil 20.0 m Hop 12 7.4 IBUs
1.0 pkg Northwest Ale (Wyeast Labs #1332) [124.2 Yeast 14 -
1.25 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Primary 3.0 days) Other 15 -
0.50 tsp Lactic Acid (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 1 -


Mash Schedule: Temperature Mash, 1 Step, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 15 lbs 12.4 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Saccharification Add 18.42 qt of water at 163.7 F 152.0 F 60 min
Mash Out Add 0.00 qt of water and heat to 168.0 168.0 F 10 min

 

[starman]

What kind of FG do you guys get with WLP005? I hit mash temps and SG but the little limeys yeasties ran it down to 1.010.

Also, Two Brothers is bringing back 14 old brews as part of their anniversary - maybe one will be Imperial Cane & Ebel.

 

[cm02WS6]

Bookmarked for future reference! FYI, if any of you like their Resistance IPA then look for some threads I started on it and you'll find the recipe I got from them. These two are some of my favorite beers!

 

[mp70]

The wife and I just went to Two Brother's Roundhouse yesterday for lunch. This is one of my favorites. I'm a newbie to brewing and just have a couple of beers under my belt. Does anyone have suggestions for converting this to an all extract recipe?

 

[brewtime]

The wife and I just went to Two Brother's Roundhouse yesterday for lunch. This is one of my favorites. I'm a newbie to brewing and just have a couple of beers under my belt. Does anyone have suggestions for converting this to an all extract recipe?

You cant do an all extract batch because of the rye malt. You need to do a partial mash.

 

[starman]

Northern Brewer has a rye malr extract but no way to get the simpsons crystal rye as brewtime said above unless you minimash.

Don't fear the mash tun. What better excuse to jump up to all grain? You might do a simple recipe first to get the feel for things but its beer... not rocket science.

 

[illini0250]

The wife and I just went to Two Brother's Roundhouse yesterday for lunch. This is one of my favorites. I'm a newbie to brewing and just have a couple of beers under my belt. Does anyone have suggestions for converting this to an all extract recipe?

I agree, you need to mini-mash this one. I use this mini-mash recipe. I've made it twice. First time it was very very close in all aspects. The second, I didn't mash long enough (I think that's where I went wrong) and the OG was low, but still tasty. If you have a kettle 12qt or bigger, a thermometer, and an extra hour you can do this using a brew in a bag approach. There's a good stovetop mini-mash tutorial around here somewhere that will help.

Amount Item Type % or IBU
4.00 lb Extra Light Dry Extract (3.0 SRM) Dry Extract 40.06 %
2.13 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 21.36 %
1.35 lb Rye Malt (4.7 SRM) Grain 13.56 %
0.90 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 9.01 %
0.45 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 4.50 %
0.32 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 3.25 %
0.32 lb Melanoiden Malt (20.0 SRM) Grain 3.25 %
0.25 oz Warrior [15.00 %] (60 min) Hops 12.0 IBU
2.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops -
0.25 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] (60 min) Hops 11.2 IBU
0.50 oz Warrior [15.00 %] (25 min) Hops 16.7 IBU
0.25 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] (25 min) Hops 7.8 IBU
0.50 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] (20 min) Hops 12.6 IBU
0.50 lb Thai Palm Sugar (8.0 SRM) Sugar 5.01 %
1 Pkgs British Ale (Wyeast Labs #1098) [Starter 1000 ml] Yeast-Ale

 

[mp70]

Thanks for all the great advice. I really would like to get into all grain at some point and a partial mash would be a great jumping off spot. Homebrew is definitely addictive. BTW, I'm in the Fox Valley area and am wondering what LHBS others frequent.

 

[rico567]

My first batch going in tomorrow. Using the recipe cited earlier that was cited to have come directly from Two Brothers. A big beer, but I've made two or three this big before. No troubles finding the palm sugar and the WY1332. I'll try to remember to report back on teh results.

 

[BuffaloBeer1]

Does anybody know how many ppg I should expect from using the 1lb of palm sugar in a 5 gallon recipe? Or even what type of sugars it's similar to if I'm plugging some numbers? I plan on brewing the Cane & Ebel next weekend. Thanks

 

[rico567]

Brewed this a week ago, full mash, pound of something labled "Pure palm sugar" at a local Asian market, and I got an OG of 1.069. The Activator of the NW Ale Yeast puffed up really fast, and I had good airlock action the next morning, fast for a liquid yeast. Fermentation was nice and steady Wed. - Fri., and promptly blew out of the airlock on Saturday. Never seen anything like it. Cleaned up, had to do it all again 4 or 5 hours later, it's now settled down, presumably finished with the main phase of fermentation. I plan to leave it in the primary three weeks and bottle, but I may decided to secondary......

 

[BuffaloBeer1]

What causes the airlock to blow off like that?

 

[rico567]

Krausen foams up. Normally, this doesn't happen in my 7 gal. fermenters, fermenting in the low '60s. This one was an exception. Next time I brew this one, I may try some Fermcap-S in the fermenter to kill the foam.

 

[dummkauf]

Does anybody know how many ppg I should expect from using the 1lb of palm sugar in a 5 gallon recipe? Or even what type of sugars it's similar to if I'm plugging some numbers? I plan on brewing the Cane & Ebel next weekend. Thanks

Not sure. I usually don't worry about getting that exact. I usually get around 60%-65% efficiency with my setup and my SG has always come in around 1.60-1.70 the few times I've brewed it, and I have yet to get a bad beer out of this recipe.

 

[dummkauf]

What causes the airlock to blow off like that?

A healthy fermentation

Doesn't have anything to do with this particular recipe. If you get a beer going with a VERY strong fermentation and a lot of krausen, it fills up your fermenter and somethings gotta give.....and it's usually the airlock. Unless you have a very large fermenter with lots of head space, use a blow off tube to avoid the airlock blowing off. Note however that the airlock blowing off probably won't be a problem, there's enough CO2 sitting on top of your beer at that point to keep the bugs out, it just sucks because a blown airlock usually means beer sprayed all over your ceiling

 

[rico567]

Well, my C&E clone has been in the fermenter 16 days, and I've still got a bubble about every 30 seconds. I used the recommended (in the post presumably from Two Brothers) Northwest Ale WY1332 yeast. Does this one have a drawn-out fermentation?

 

[starman]

The batch of applewood smoked C&E with 1332 seemed active for the month it was in primary but i never took a hydro. Bubbles could just be co2 releasing due to temperature or barometer changing though, right?

No matter the cause i cant help.but inhale deeply when one rolls out.

 

[rico567]

The batch of applewood smoked C&E with 1332 seemed active for the month it was in primary but i never took a hydro. Bubbles could just be co2 releasing due to temperature or barometer changing though, right?

No matter the cause i cant help.but inhale deeply when one rolls out.

Yes, I hadn't thought of the weather causing activity; we've had a lot of changing fronts rolling through the last three or four days.

And, yes, the airlock for this one smells great!

 

[dummkauf]

Well, my C&E clone has been in the fermenter 16 days, and I've still got a bubble about every 30 seconds. I used the recommended (in the post presumably from Two Brothers) Northwest Ale WY1332 yeast. Does this one have a drawn-out fermentation?

Define drawn out? I hit my FG 28 days after pitching the 1332, and then left it for another week to dry hop. Though I usually don't even bother pulling a gravity reading until about 4 weeks in the fermenter on any of my beers either(it might have hit FG before 28 days, but I wouldn't have known)

 

[rico567]

Define drawn out? I hit my FG 28 days after pitching the 1332, and then left it for another week to dry hop. Though I usually don't even bother pulling a gravity reading until about 4 weeks in the fermenter on any of my beers either(it might have hit FG before 28 days, but I wouldn't have known)

Good info- I normally primary for a month anyway. I'll just wait that long, then dry hop.

 

[TyTanium]

You could just ramp the temp up as it nears terminal gravity to help it finish faster...I gotta think the fresher the better on this one, don't want to lose the aroma from your kettle hops.

 

[BuffaloBeer1]

Thanks all for the comments and recipe postings with this. I have been enjoying this one a lot. I made the mistake of dry hopping in the primary after a week and a half, and then going straight to bottles after another week. It tastes great, I just have to get used to the half inch or so of sediment at the bottom of each bottle. Next time definitely going to use a secondary.

One note on the yeast if it hasn't been mentioned. I just learned that all of the 1300 series Wyeasts are true top flocculating yeasts, and the best thing to do is just rack through them into the secondary when the gravity gets to where you want it. I had the same issues with the Belgian Strong Ale yeast.

 

[starman]

Did anyone that got a hold of Pillar of Salt venture a guess on the hops?



It was sweet for a beer with no crystal malts. High mash temp?

 

[Glynn]

got this from someone who claimes it came from the brewer there you just need to replace candy sugar with thai palm sugar

cane and ebel
American IPA
Type: All Grain Date: 9/3/2012
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal Brewer: Glynn Brown
Boil Size: 7.00 gal Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 75 min Equipment: Pot and Cooler (8gal/12gal)
End of Boil Volume 5.13 gal Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Final Bottling Volume: 5.00 gal Est Mash Efficiency 82.3 %
Fermentation: Ale, Two Stage Taste Rating(out of 50): 30.0
Taste Notes:
Ingredients


Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
10 lbs Rahr Pale Malt 2 row (3.5 SRM) Grain 1 68.7 %
2 lbs Rye Malt (4.7 SRM) Grain 2 13.7 %
8.0 oz Aromatic Malt (Briess) (20.0 SRM) Grain 3 3.4 %
8.0 oz Caramel Malt - 10L (Cargill) (11.5 SRM) Grain 4 3.4 %
8.0 oz Crystal Rye Malt (Thomas Fawcett) (80.0 SRM) Grain 5 3.4 %
8.0 oz Munich (Cargill) (9.5 SRM) Grain 6 3.4 %
1.0 oz Black Malt (Thomas Fawcett) (660.0 SRM) Grain 7 0.4 %
0.25 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 8 10.6 IBUs
0.25 oz Summit [17.00 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 9 12.8 IBUs
8.0 oz Candi Sugar, Clear (0.5 SRM) Sugar 10 3.4 %
0.50 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - Boil 25.0 min Hop 11 13.3 IBUs
0.50 oz Summit [17.00 %] - Boil 25.0 min Hop 12 16.2 IBUs
0.75 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 13 16.2 IBUs
1.0 pkg American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) [124.21 ml] Yeast 14 -
1.50 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 15 0.0 IBUs

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.068 SG Measured Original Gravity: 1.046 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.012 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7.4 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 4.7 %
Bitterness: 69.1 IBUs Calories: 151.6 kcal/12oz
Est Color: 12.9 SRM
Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Light Body, No Mash Out Total Grain Weight: 14 lbs 9.0 oz
Sparge Water: 4.29 gal Grain Temperature: 72.0 F
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F Tun Temperature: 72.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE Mash PH: 5.20

Mash Steps
Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Mash In Add 4.39 gal of water at 165.0 F 150.0 F 75 min

Sparge Step: Fly sparge with 4.29 gal water at 168.0 F
Mash Notes: Simple single infusion mash for use with most modern well modified grains (about 95% of the time).

 

[rico567]

I should follow up on this one- my first batch was bottled for a month but the hops were too strong. At about six weeks, it became nice. Now (pushing 4 months since bottling) it's great. Those hops just had to fade a bit.

 

[RUNningonbrew]

I have a clone of this that is very good, I use coconut palm sugar with success

 

[Brihaus]

Has anyone successfully found Thai Palm Sugar? There are a lot of products that are "palm sugar," "coconut palm sugar," and "pure palm sugar," and even some that are labeled "thai palm sugar," but they are made with sugar added or from the coconut palm blossoms. From what I understand, true thai palm sugar is made from the sap of the stem of a variety of trees. If you found a product that is true thai palm sugar, can you let us know and post a link or photo? Thanks!