Can you help make this Pale Ale better?

[adrian078]

Guys,

Brewed this a few weeks ago but need your help improving it. It was a pretty decent beer and well worth brewing again.

Though, I want to make it a bit easier drinking and more sessionable. The hops flavour was all there. After a couple it got a little heavy - it was dry but perhaps a little on the bitter side and a bit too much caramel (perhaps??).

I was thinking of knocking back the bitterness to about 35 ibu and also reducing the crystal or swapping it from a medium to a light crystal.

Any thoughts? Which crystal and how much to use?




Volume: 26L (6.8 gal)
IBU: 39.5
ABV: 5.4%

4.8kg (10.6lbs) Pale Malt, Traditional Ale (Joe White) (5.9 EBC) 77.9 %
360g (0.8lbs) Munich, Light (Joe White) (17.7 EBC) 5.8 %
300g (0.66lbs) Crystal (Joe White) (141.8 EBC) 4.9 %
200g (0.44lbs) Dextrose 3.2 %

10g (0.35 ounces) Galaxy [12.30 %] - Boil 60.0 min 11.1 IBUs
18g (0.63 ounces) Galaxy [12.30 %] - Boil 30.0 min 15.3 IBUs
15g (0.53 ounces) Cascade [6.40 %] - Boil 30.0 min 6.7 IBUs
21g (0.74 ounces) Galaxy [12.30 %] - Boil 5.0 min 4.6 IBUs
15g (0.53 ounces) Cascade [6.40 %] - Boil 5.0 min 1.7 IBUs

Safale #US-05

Ferment at 16 degrees (61F)

 

[treacheroustexan]

Just my opinion if it were my brew, I would decrease the bitterness to about 34, remove the dextrose completely and only use 10 # of pale malt and use half of a pound of crystal 15.

 

[onkeltuka]

Did you measure OG and FG? From the top of my head, I would change the crystal to a lighter one to something like 100 EBC, or do 2% darker and 4% lighter. How dark was the "pale malt"? I ask because being from Europe myself, I've noticed that what is called "pale malt" in the USA is closer to European "pilsner malt", which is a bit lighter coloured malt. Doing a west coast style pale ale with lots of crystal malt while using the European, darker pale malt tends to result in a too heavy of a beer, or at least something that gets closer to being an amber ale rather than a pale ale.

Also maybe think more about whether you want more or less hop aroma? I would add all bittering @ 60 minutes, then go something like 10,5,flame-out with the rest. I find it hard to tell what difference a @30 min. addition does flavorwise, and adding IBUs is just plain more efficient earlier in the boil.

 

[slym2none]

Crystal 15-60, your choice, OP.

 

[adrian078]

Did you measure OG and FG? How dark was the "pale malt"? I ask because being from Europe myself,

OG was 1.051
FG was 1.012

Actually the only reason the dextrose was added is we had major efficiency issues...I forgot to ask the store to crush the grain and I don't have a grain crusher so had to crush it with a hammer in a bag. Let me tell you that sucks! But we got there in the end.

The pale malt wasn't as light as pilsner malt.

OK I think I will swap the crystal to a lighter one. Is it too much to keep the munich in there too?

 

[adrian078]

Also maybe think more about whether you want more or less hop aroma?

Hop flavour and aroma was just perfect. A bit bitter but that's easily changed.

 

[Shawn_Brewin]

Have you tried bittering with all late hops? I started to addmy bittering hops at. About 15 minutes. It costs a bit more cause you have to add more hops but man does it soften the bittering taste and bring the flavour to the table. I get better hop character then with dry hopping! Try to sub out the crystal 60* for a little honey malt or just let the Munich take over. Really like pale. Ales with Maris Otter too. You try switching out the base malt for something different?

 

[adrian078]

Have you tried bittering with all late hops? I started to addmy bittering hops at.

nah haven't tried this before. Interesting. I love my hops but not in every style of course.

Does the flavour and aroma get too much?

 

[Kiichi]

What was your water chemistry on this one? That usually is an easy way to improve.

 

[adrian078]

What was your water chemistry on this one? That usually is an easy way to improve.

I have pretty soft water here so added some calcium sulphate and chloride. Firstly to get the ph in the right range and I also added a little more sulphate to bring out the hops.

 

[Kiichi]

The PH is not really affected by calcium sulphate and chloride though. I assume you meant that you used acid for that though. For the classic american style PA did you aim for around 200 sulphate (to 250) and 100 chloride? Mash PH 5.4-5.3, down to 5.2? Calculateted with Bru`N?

I do assume you did, but "some" just lets me leave something here which you can easily ignore if you already did that. Otherwise try that.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

I'd remove the early galaxy additions - I find it gives quite a harsh bitterness. Either go with all late additions (as above) or replace it with a cleaner bittering hop.

For the grains, I'd suggest replacing the crystal with a lighter crystal (Joe White Caramalt) and also adding some victory/biscuit.

I'd EITHER keep the bitterness but drop the dextrose (add a bit more trad ale malt to keep the OG) OR drop the bitterness to low 30's and keep the dextrose.


To answer a question above about the pale ale malt (Joe White Traditional Ale), it's similar to American Ale malt rather than pale malt. More like Euro ale malt than pils malt, but without the flavour of English base malts.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

nah haven't tried this before. Interesting. I love my hops but not in every style of course.

Does the flavour and aroma get too much?

I'm assuming you're in Australia (as you're using JW malts).
Try a Squires hop thief for an example of what you're likely to get with all late hop additions (I don't know this beer is all late hopped, but it tastes similar to my results with all late hopping). The latest hop thief (number 7) uses galaxy and mosaic. If you can get hold of number 6 it is, IMO, much better (simcoe and columbus).

 

[adrian078]

I'd remove the early galaxy additions - I find it gives quite a harsh bitterness. Either go with all late additions (as above) or replace it with a cleaner bittering hop.

How about Centennial or Chinook for bittering?

I'm assuming you're in Australia (as you're using JW malts).

Yep I'm in Sydney.

The PH is not really affected by calcium sulphate and chloride though.

Do you mean it doesn't affect the pH much? According to How to Brew and Brun calculator it does change the pH. The main reasons I added these salts was to accentuate the hops more. I had a ratio of more suphate than chloride

 

[DU99]

ditch the dextrose.try getting some toffee malt

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Some brewers like chinook, but I'm not a fan of it. Centennial is a good choice.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

ditch the dextrose.try getting some toffee malt

I've just (today) used this malt as my LHBS has recently stocked Gladfield malts. I can't believe how chewy and sweet it is! I hope the flavour carries over into the finished beer.

 

[madscientist451]

Guys,

Brewed this a few weeks ago but need your help improving it. It was a pretty decent beer and well worth brewing again.

Though, I want to make it a bit easier drinking and more sessionable. The hops flavour was all there. After a couple it got a little heavy - it was dry but perhaps a little on the bitter side and a bit too much caramel (perhaps??).



4.8kg (10.6lbs) Pale Malt, Traditional Ale (Joe White) (5.9 EBC) 77.9 %
360g (0.8lbs) Munich, Light (Joe White) (17.7 EBC) 5.8 %
300g (0.66lbs) Crystal (Joe White) (141.8 EBC) 4.9 %
200g (0.44lbs) Dextrose 3.2 %

10g (0.35 ounces) Galaxy [12.30 %] - Boil 60.0 min 11.1 IBUs
18g (0.63 ounces) Galaxy [12.30 %] - Boil 30.0 min 15.3 IBUs
15g (0.53 ounces) Cascade [6.40 %] - Boil 30.0 min 6.7 IBUs
21g (0.74 ounces) Galaxy [12.30 %] - Boil 5.0 min 4.6 IBUs
15g (0.53 ounces) Cascade [6.40 %] - Boil 5.0 min 1.7 IBUs

Safale #US-05

Ferment at 16 degrees (61F)

Two suggestions: try increasing munich to 1 lb and and reducing crystal to 1/2 lb. What crystal you are using is important, here in the USA I would suggest crystal 40 or lower. The other suggestion would be to delete the 5 minute addition of Galaxy hops. Good Luck and Cheers!

 

[madman960]

OP,

What about mash hopping or first wort hopping to soften bitterness? I have yet to try either. But both seem very promising.

I will be mash hopping 6 batches today and tomorrow.

Bill

 

[Hujo]

Mash hopping is agreed on as a total waste, it just doesn't do anything in a beer with late hop additions. A lot of people use FWH, but opinions vary. I used to do it, but I didn't care for it, and people usually can't tell the difference from "normal" bittering anyway. If you want it more sessionable, do the same recipe again, but mash lower, and maybe do a slightly smaller bittering addition. It's not as fun as tinkering with the recipe, but it's hard to build a good recipe while changing several parameters at once.

 

[Hujo]

The PH is not really affected by calcium sulphate and chloride though. I assume you meant that you used acid for that though. For the classic american style PA did you aim for around 200 sulphate (to 250) and 100 chloride? Mash PH 5.4-5.3, down to 5.2? Calculateted with Bru`N?

I do assume you did, but "some" just lets me leave something here which you can easily ignore if you already did that. Otherwise try that.

The Ph IS affected. I don't know what kind of water you're starting out with, but mine is very soft and low in minerals. If you were to treat my water like that it would be very apperent in the finished beer, and not in a good way.

If you have good water don't mess with it too much. I think mineral additions should be added gradually, and not to the point where it tastes chalky. If you can taste it, it's too much.

 

[hopbrad]

Try a Cleaner bittering hop like magnum or warrior. Also add in some dry hops

 

[Kiichi]

Ups, meant to say that it does not have a huge impact, not that it has none. Sorry. Point was that acid is usually needed to hit mash ph.

 

[brewcat]

I'd go magnum for bittering if you want clean. I'd probably then work some adjunct into the recipe. I'm a fan of using flaked corn.