Can You Brew It recipe for Wychwood Hobgoblin

[DSmith]

I brewed the recipe on post #54. Mash pH at room temp was 5.35, OG was 1.054 instead of 1.052, cooled to 61F and pitched in the yeast from a starter. I think I'll hold it at 66F and finish with a raise to 68F/70F at the end of fermentation.

Fermentation temperature and gravity reading (estimated by refractometer from a small sample) graph added. Aeration was with a drill/paddles, yeast pitch per Mr. Malty. No diacetyl, sample too small and early to determine anything else.

Edit: Updated graph

 

[Kuhndog]

How is it doing or tasting thus far?

 

[DSmith]

How is it doing or tasting thus far?

I updated the graph in post #61. The primary sat at basement temperature for about 5 days after the controlled temperature period during fermentation, no significant change in gravity (%Brix, gravity estimated by refractometer & conversion formula).

EDITED

I transfered to a secondary, hydrometer reading of 1.013. The sample I got was from the bottom of the carboy and pretty cloudy. I suspect the color is lighter than the commercial version. The interview stated 1200 EBC malt, consistent with Simpson's Black Malt... I emailed the brewery to see if they would clarify the dark malt and hops stated on the CYBI interview. If they respond, I'll post that here.

 

[DaaveOfSpades]

Hi,

I've only ever made Beer from kits before thought I'd give this a whirl, however I'm not sure what British Crystal is or why to buy it?

Kind Regards,

Chris

 

[MadCnty]

I really like the original, so must give this shot some time...

 

[Kuhndog]

Hi,

I've only ever made Beer from kits before thought I'd give this a whirl, however I'm not sure what British Crystal is or why to buy it?

Kind Regards,

Chris

British Crystal is the equivalent to "caramel" malt over here in the US. There is a difference though in what it's made from. Briess and other maltsters in North America use 6 row barley to make their caramel malt....over in the UK - they use two row barley. For my own palette, there is more sweetness and more complex flavor in the British crystal compared to North American caramel malts. But if you want to make more authentic hobgoblin - you'll have to use British Crystal because I can guarantee, Wychwood is NOT using malts from North America.

One other thing - make sure you are getting the right crystal when comparing Lovibond. Some of the online retailers or even homebrew shops might list the malt in EBC - which is a lot higher than the normal Lovibond scale. For instance a British Medium Crystal would be 130-160 EBC or 50-60 Lovibond. Just keep that in mind. I know someone who looked at a Munton's bag of grain thinking he was buying Extra Dark Crystal but it was Medium Dark Crystal because the labeling said 160....but it is in EBC....so it really was Medium Crystal with a Lovibond of about 60 or so.

 

[DSmith]

I updated the graph in post #61. The primary sat at basement temperature for about 5 days after the controlled temperature period during fermentation, no significant change in gravity (%Brix, gravity estimated by refractometer & conversion formula).

EDITED

I transfered to a secondary, hydrometer reading of 1.013. The sample I got was from the bottom of the carboy and pretty cloudy. I suspect the color is lighter than the commercial version. The interview stated 1200 EBC malt, consistent with Simpson's Black Malt... I emailed the brewery to see if they would clarify the dark malt and hops stated on the CYBI interview. If they respond, I'll post that here.

I never got a response from the brewery.

I pulled a sample last night from the secondary to replace the small volume of gelatin/water solution added for clearing chill haze I get with Maris Otter. The beer is cold crashed for a few more days and then will be bottled. The sample tasted excellent. I'm looking forward to a comparison.

 

[DSmith]

Here's a picture of the color from leftovers at bottling. OG = 1.055, FG = 1.012, 5.7% ABV. I'll save any tasting notes for a future comparison to the bottled Hobgoblin. But, the beer is very malty with little roasted malt character.

 

[DSmith]

A Wychwood head brewer responded to my email quesions. Here is the response:

"Thanks for your enquiry. I can confirm that the hops in Hobgoblin are Fuggles/Golding added to the Copper and Styrian/Cascade to the whirlpool for some late hop zesty character. You are correct the colour of Chocolate malt is 1000 on Simpsons specification, but this can vary from batch to batch, so we adjust our malt grist to ensure the colour remains consistent in the beer."

I need to rebrew and adjust the hopping to be more in-line with the CYBI recipe. The crystal malt should still be Simpson's 150EBC (60L).

Pic added after 1 week carbonating. Adding a small amount of fresh yeast at bottling results in good carbonation within 10 days, much better with extra time.

 

[adam01]

Where did you gets the simpsons malts ? I can't seem to find any place that has the simpsons crystal. My LHBS has Muntons Chocolate, and Hugh Baird and Pauls medium crystal. But no simpsons.

 

[DSmith]

Midwest has Simpson's crystal 60l, 80l, 160l & chocolate malts.

 

[adam01]

Okay. They don't mention Simpsons as the supplier of the Chocolate - only as "English Chocolate".

We'll be waiting to read the side by side taste comparison with the original.

THanks.

 

[DSmith]

It is Simpson's chocolate at Midwest. Read the bin at the store and brewed with it yesterday.

They have Briess chocolate too.

 

[adam01]

Okay, brewing tomorrow.
Screwed up on the base malt and used Muntons Marris Otter. Next time will use Pauls Best Mild Ale. I think the marris gives me the slightly grainy flavor.

I'm going to try the London Ale Wy1028 strain. I previously used the Thames 1275 strain.

 

[gbx]

Okay, brewing tomorrow.
Screwed up on the base malt and used Muntons Marris Otter. Next time will use Pauls Best Mild Ale. I think the marris gives me the slightly grainy flavor.

I'm going to try the London Ale Wy1028 strain. I previously used the Thames 1275 strain.

Any reason for going with Paul's Mild? Any beer I've tasted with it has had a toastiness I do not get from Hobgoblin.

 

[DSmith]

Okay, brewing tomorrow.
Screwed up on the base malt and used Muntons Marris Otter. Next time will use Pauls Best Mild Ale. I think the marris gives me the slightly grainy flavor.

I'm going to try the London Ale Wy1028 strain. I previously used the Thames 1275 strain.

What recipe did you brew? I need to do the comparison still, but the one I post in Post#54 has turned out to be a phenominal beer whether it's a clone or not.

 

[adam01]

Largely the post of 54, but for the hops I didn't use the large dose of aroma (whirlpool) hops at the end. I did that before and the hop brightness was out of balance with the rest of the
beer. So I dropped it to 12 Sty / 3 Cascage for 15mins after flameout.

Its fermeting now, a little cool at 62, but warming still.

Since I don't have Simpsons malts locally, I used:
Muntons Maris
Pauls Crystal 60
Belgian Choc (they were our of Muntons Choc) 350L

Wyeast London 1028.

 

[DSmith]

I compared the recipe brewed in Post #54 to bottled Hobgoblin and it is not a clone. I want to revise the recipe and brew again based on these notes:

1. Reduce the % of chocoloate malt, add that percentage to the Crystal malt
2. I caught that the brewer on the CYBI interview stated a Spring variety pale malt. I'll try Golden Promise instead of Maris Otter.
3. Mash a few degrees higher with the same yeast for less fermentability
4. Hop per the CYBI interview and email confirmation from the brewery (FWH = 50%/50% mix of UK Goldings/Fuggles, Whirlpool = 80% Styrian Goldings/20% Cascade)
5. Calculate bittering hops for 25 IBU Tinseth (the recipe in Post #54 was for 20 IBU Tinseth and had less bitterness than the commercial beer)
6. Carbonate to 2.0 vol CO2 (2.2 vol CO2 is too much and needed to be swirled to decrease the carbonation bite)

 

[dyqik]

A couple of notes from this former resident of Oxford, about 20 miles from the Wychwood and Brakspear brewery...

Firstly, as stated above, there's a big difference between the cask and bottled versions. Some of this is down to the taxation rules in the UK that increase the tax percentage on beers above 4.7%, and some is because cask beers served at cellar temperature with a day or two's worth of oxidation in the cask taste a lot maltier and stronger than beer poured from a freshly opened bottle at fridge temperature.

Secondly, Brakspear yeast is quite possibly the same the as Wychwood yeast now, since they are both brewed on the same site.

 

[DSmith]

A couple of notes from this former resident of Oxford, about 20 miles from the Wychwood and Brakspear brewery...

Firstly, as stated above, there's a big difference between the cask and bottled versions. Some of this is down to the taxation rules in the UK that increase the tax percentage on beers above 4.7%, and some is because cask beers served at cellar temperature with a day or two's worth of oxidation in the cask taste a lot maltier and stronger than beer poured from a freshly opened bottle at fridge temperature.

Secondly, Brakspear yeast is quite possibly the same the as Wychwood yeast now, since they are both brewed on the same site.

I'm trying to copy the bottled version and am aiming for about 1.052 OG. This seems to be in line with a hydrometer/refractometer sample of the commercial beer, near 5.5% ABV.

My use of Wyeast 1028 and combination of mash temperature definitely lead to the over attenuation. The choice is to use the familiar yeast again and raise the mash temperature or try something new. I had figured to change the yeast last if the recipe gets closer to the bottled beer.

 

[DSmith]

I've purchased ingredients to brew another clone attempt of Hobgoblin (bottled version) after the last comparision to the recipe posted in #54. The changes include using a less bready base-malt, little less chocolate malt and choosing a yeast known to leave a little more residual sweetness but hoping not to significantly increasing the final gravity. The hops are FWH & Whirlpool only per the CYBI interview.

Batch Size (Gal): 6.0
Anticipated OG: 1.052
Anticipated SRM: 14
Anticipated IBU: 25 Tinseth (1.0 Concentration Factor, 0.7 factor applied for FWH)
Mash Efficiency: 75%
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes
Est Final Gravity: 1.012
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.2 %

Amount Item Type % or IBU
10.0 lb Simpson's Golden Promise (90% of grainbill)
0.963 lb Simpson’s Medium Crystal Malt, 60L (8.7% of grainbill)
0.148 lb Simpson’s Chocolate Malt (1.3% of grainbill)

35 g UK Goldings (pellet, 5.8%, FWH)
35 g Fuggles (pellet, 4.5%, FWH)
16 g Cascade (pellet, 7.3%, 0 min)
64 g Styrian Goldings (pellet, 3.2%, 0 min)

Mash at 154F for 60 min
Wyeast 1318 London Ale III
Pitch at 63F, natural rise to 66F, temperature controlled at 66F
Carbonate to 2.0 vol CO2

 

[adam01]

Care to share what you tasted vs the bottle ? When I last compared, I couldn't get
past the sherry flavor from the slow, hot trip across the atlantic.

 

[BigJack]

subscribed

 

[DSmith]

I brewed the recipe in Post #81 without changes today. Actual OG = 1.052, room temperature mash pH @ 15 min = 5.45.

The previous recipe came across as having too much roasted malt taste, thinner body & less malty/sweet than the commercial beer. The changes in the recipe in Post #81 hopefully are an attempt to address those area.

The brewery confirmed they heat their water to reduce alkalinity and add CaCl2 & NaCl to the mash. I brewed with RO water & CaCl2 only this time.

[EDIT] Added fermentation temperature & gravity graph below. Refractometer suggests 1.015 final gravity, planning to check tonight with hydrometer when bottling.

 

[DSmith]

This is the beer from Post #81 at bottling time. I purchased the commercial Hobgoblin to compare in a few weeks and believe this recipe has gotten closer than last time. I will post that comparison

 

[adam01]

How does your brew taste ? Its getting time to brew something again.
I tried a belgian chocolate - interesting flavors, but at the same %age it has a bit of roast.

Might want to get some of the simpsons malts given your review.

 

[DSmith]

Here is a pic from the comparison. The color, carbonation and head are very similar. There was a little more lacing with the commercial beer. Hop aroma very similar, mine could be increased.

The taste is too close to call with the freshness of the bottle in question. If I were to change anything, I'd try a subbing in 25%-50% US 2-row for some of the base malt because the biscuit from all the Golden Promise is not there in the commercial beer. I believe the commercial beer's has more from the crystal malt than mine, but the base malt may be getting in the way. The roasted malt seems about right, or slightly too high in my recipe.

The Wyeast 1318 seems to work fine, but there may be other substitutes. Nothing drier.

This is the closest clone I've brewed and will rebrew again with very minor changes next time because it's a nice pint as-is.

 

[BigJack]

Nice pic and nice write-up!

 

[gbx]

I'm rebrewing for a 3rd time right now. here is what I have for 5gal

Golden Promise (TF) 7lb 4oz 72.5 %
Maris Otter (TF) 1lb 12oz 17.5 %
Crystal 75 (Baird's) 12.00 oz 7.5
Chocolate Malt (Baird's) 3.25 oz 2.0 %
Sugar - Molasses 0.75 oz 0.5 %


Hops
Slovenian Styrian Goldings 4.0 % 0.50 oz FWH
East Kent Goldings 6.5 % 0.50 oz FWH
Slovenian Styrian Goldings 4.0 % 2.25 oz 1 Min
US Cascade 6.0 % 0.75 oz 1 Min

wy1318 London Ale 3

I'm sticking pretty close to the original. I had 1lb 12oz of MO left over from a previous sack. I couldn't source any Simpsons malts so using Bairds. I didn't have any fuggles so subbing in Styrian Goldings. Using .75oz of black strap for the sugar. Using a repitch of London 3. I'll let you know in a few weeks how it turned out.

 

[gbx]

I went to my local liquor store to pick up a couple bottles of hobgoblin but they don't seem to be stocking it anymore and in its place was the Iron Maiden Trooper. Has anyone had it? A lot of people seem to hate on it because they are expecting the number of the beast and a big dark and evil imperial but instead get a new wave of british heavy metal session ale. It is really nice and not too far from my hobgoblin clone attempts that always turn out too dry and hoppy.