Can you Brew It recipe for Stone Arrogant Bastard

[ultravista]

I will be brewing a Double Bastard and plan on dry hopping, perhaps 2 ounces of Chinook after bourbon oak chips.

NikoBrew had Chinook for $8.25 this weekend. I still have 10 ounces left from this years pound but did buy another pound.

 

[cannman]

I will be brewing a Double Bastard and plan on dry hopping, perhaps 2 ounces of Chinook after bourbon oak chips.

NikoBrew had Chinook for $8.25 this weekend. I still have 10 ounces left from this years pound but did buy another pound.

OMG I had a Double Bastard for the first time in a few years and after having my homebrew AB, Stone's DB was too much beer for me. I'm not ashamed to say it either... There's a point where I'd rather go to Denny's for a Grand Slam...

 

[hanger6bc]

Mash at 149F for 65 minutes
Mash at 168F for 10 minutes
Sparge at 170F for 60 minutes


How do you sparge for an hour? Trickle effect???

 

[hanger6bc]

Mash at 149F for 65 minutes
Mash at 168F for 10 minutes
Sparge at 170F for 60 minutes

How do you sparge for an hour? Trickle???

 

[stonebrewer]

So I kegged my latest batch today...we will have to see how it turns out. Lotsa bubblegum on the nose, so I think I fermented too hot. Doh! Hopefully this will fade. FG was 1.011; way too hot right now, at least warm, flat, and out of the fermenter it is. Think I need to rethink how I am fermenting 10G batches. Might split them into 2 5G batches like I used to? Gonna let this beer condition for a few weeks and not panic...have experienced this before and all was well after some weeks of conditioning.

 

[peter78]

Brewing this one next week. All out of plain 2 row. Have pilsner and marris otter malt. Which one should I use, what do you guys think?

 

[m00ps]

I'd go with Maris Otter, arrogant bastard definitely isnt on the thin side. Or you could mix them 50-50 that might basically give you 2row

 

[IslandLizard]

70% Pilsner, 30% MO. Pilsner can be a bit thin in flavor, while MO is malty (biscuity) compared to 2-row or pale malt. Boil 90 minutes though, since you're using Pilsner.

Or do a 100% MO and get a bit maltier AB version, Arrogant Otter.

 

[TrickyDick]

Supposedly they use golden promise and two row in their enjoy by brew. Wondering if they might be using any GP in the base malt?

I'm planning to re-brew this one next week and going to use the wyeast west coast IPA yeast.

What is the consensus on the specialty malt again, without rereading this entire thread. It was over a year ago last I brewed this.

Ten percent specialty malt if I recall.

Not c150, at least not by itself.

Definitely NOT special B or Special Roast

CaraAroma I think was suggested.

Chocolate malt or a pinch of roasted barely I think is part of it, and I don't think its a single specialty malt either despite rumors.

I'll be willing to do the 10% caraaroma a shot and maybe a pinch of chocolate...

Edit- for what it's worth, it might be feasible to split brew. Just mash the base malt, and steep the specialty grains, since they do not require mashing. Could try two different five gallon brews of this with different steeped specialty malts. Did a similar type of thing recently and used my HLT as a second boil kettle, collected all wort into boil kettle and pumped half back to the HLT after stirring well.


TD

 

[TrickyDick]

So I don't think (operative word is think) that AB is dry hopped. I moved things later and made them a little bigger this go around. I have not tried this beer yet as it is still in the fermentor, but this is my schedule this go around:

2.00 oz Chinook [11.10 %] - First Wort 90.0 min Hop 7 36.0 IBUs
1.50 oz Chinook [11.10 %] - Boil 90.0 min Hop 8 24.5 IBUs
1.50 oz Chinook [11.10 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 9 13.9 IBUs
1.50 oz Chinook [11.10 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 11 4.6 IBUs
1.50 oz Chinook [11.10 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 12 0.0 IBUs

I can tell you it smelled fantastic all during and after the boil. So even if this isn't even close, it is going to be a fantastic beer!

Drinking PtE now and have brewed that beer a few times. I used hop shots the last time for bittering and it was pretty close and I had less loss because of the resin...

Agreed that I don't think AB is dry hopped either.
Have you had. Chance to try your latest AB clone effort?
What was the grist and mash schedule you used?
Thinking about some hop shot also.
How did the revised hopping compare to real ab?

 

[Calder]

From Page 2 of this thread.

I listened to the rebrew show tonight and it sounds like they got pretty close. I will tell you what I heard.

90% 2-row
10% special B
All chinook hops
WLP007

This is what I thought it was. I'm not reading the whole thread to find out if this is incorrect.

 

[TrickyDick]

Nobody has found the exact clone. It seems the specialty malt is what we don't know. People have tried special b and it's not correct. People have tried crystal 150 and it's not correct. People have tried a variety of specially months and nobody claims to have nailed it yet. I suspect that it's probably not just a single specialty malt as is hinted at by Mitch I believe in his book. It may have started that way. I detect a hint of roast barley which people claim is not in the beer. When I visited stone a year ago October, I was trying to glean information about what the specialty malt could be. What I discovered or was I hinted to me was to try a touch of chocolate malt. This might capture the hint of roasted barley because chocolate malt is also highly killed but malted not simply roasted. It had also been suggested later in this thread that Cara aroma might be the specialty malt. I'm not sure if anybody has tried this yet. I'm going to use between 1% to half of one percent chocolate malt and 10% or rather 9% aroma in the next batch.

It seems that the new West Coast IPA strain available is supposedly the stone house yeast.

The yeast is the other piece of the puzzle.

TD

 

[stonebrewer]

Tricky: Nope, I have not tried it. One keg is in the garage and the other is about 3 feet away and needs to make it out to garage to cold condition as my freezer is full at the moment. Changed the grist a bit...added some Golden Naked Oats for grins at 3% of grist, Caraaroma at 12%, everything else about the same. Aroma was nice but I think I fermented hot so I got bubble gum....ugh! Will see if it conditions out or not. Mashed at 155-156 using my RIMS. Chinook aroma was out of this world after the boil!!! Looks and smells good right now, but the esters are troublesome. May have 10G of Cali Belgique on my hands instead of AB...wondering if Stone made the same mistake in order to make that beer?

 

[TrickyDick]

Thanks Stonebrewer!

I'm planning to brew this the Saturday after Christmas. I hope to get some feedback on the caraaroma. I think you're the first to try? Obviously the hot fermentation and oats might make it hard to say how close it is.

I'm tweaking the recipe from the last time as we speak. Hope to use some homegrown Chinook for the late additions.

And by the way, I think one of your previous brews of this you had claimed the hop schedule was dead on.
can you repost to save me some time? Otherwise going with whats below.

I'm going to be doing a 60 minute boil. On my system, 90 min I can't do without boilovers or top off water.

Tweaks to my grain bill now:
91.6% two row pale
6.2% CaraAroma
1.3% CaraPils
0.9% Chocolate (350º)

SRM clocks in at 18.8. my last attempt was 21.8 and was too dark compared with real stuff.
I've been having an unexplained issue of my beers being darker than intended, and I don't know why. Its not scorching in the boil or carmelizing in the mash as far as I can tell. When I plug in 12% CaraAroma, the color is WAAAYYY too dark. Here is a repost of the last side by side I brewed with BeerSmith giving my SRM at 21.8. Mine is the darker colored beer.

Shooting for OG 1.072
Mashing at 148º

What's the real AB ABV% again? 7.7? 7.2?

Chinook FWH, 60, 20,15,10,5,whirlpool added below 200º while actively chilling (2oz for all additions), and considering upping to 3oz or adding 45 and 30 minute additions of 2 oz each. I don't think that you can put too much hops in this. (11 gallons into fermenter). I'll probably end up using my hop spider for this and recirculating through the hop spider before run-off. Alternately, I could TRY to run off through a HopRocket filled with Chinook. That always makes a mess though, I think running chilled wort through a hop rocket is fairly useless. Only problem I forsee is how to put both my hop spider AND immersion chiller in the boil kettle. I don't think the spider fits inside the coil...

Plan to let settle in the conical and dump any break material before oxygenating and pitching.
TD

 

[stonebrewer]

reddskinnfan was the first to use Caraaroma...he is part of my group grain buy and tasting the grain we both thought it was closer than SB. I changed the hop additions again, though I thought they were spot on I wanted to add more aroma and flavor from the Chinook, so I moved more to end and added about an ounce...

18.62 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 1 -
27 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 80.6 %
4 lbs Caraaroma (Weyermann) (178.0 SRM) Grain 3 11.9 %
1 lbs Acidulated (Weyermann) (1.8 SRM) Grain 4 3.0 %
1 lbs Oats, Golden Naked (Simpsons) (10.0 SRM) Grain 5 3.0 %
8.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 6 1.5 %
2.00 oz Chinook [11.10 %] - First Wort 90.0 min Hop 7 36.0 IBUs
1.50 oz Chinook [11.10 %] - Boil 90.0 min Hop 8 24.5 IBUs
1.50 oz Chinook [11.10 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 9 13.9 IBUs
0.47 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 10 -
1.50 oz Chinook [11.10 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 11 4.6 IBUs
1.50 oz Chinook [11.10 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 12 0.0 IBUs
1.7 pkg Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007) [35.49 ml] Yeast 13 -


The above is what I ended up brewing. I ended up with way too much wort, so I pulled about 2.5G off for yeast starters or I may use some of it for an experimental, stove top beer this week.

Mine is too dark in color. Probably will taste it again in the next week or so. Will report back...

 

[stonebrewer]

So initial taste notes...fantastic! Still carbing up so a little flat, great nose even with the bubble gum which is retreating day by day. Nice mouthfeel, a bit sweeter than I would have thought, and packs a punch! Darker than the real thing, and needs to carb and compare with a bottle of the real deal, which I will do in a few weeks. Love the mouthfeel...the nose is very complex...did I mention it has a bit of booze? I have done this clone over and over and over again...never disappoints, even if it isn't quite AB yet...the fun is in the journey! May dry hop or randall this. I am growing fonder of the Chinook...ever had Sap by Tree House? FANTASTIC! Chinook makes this beer special...no matter what malt canvas you paint with. Cheers all!

 

[TrickyDick]

Planning to use roughly 5 oz homegrown Chinook hops for the whirlpool and possibly 5 minute additions perhaps. No idea on the AA%. Might also add some 30 and 45 minute additions, my last brew of this didn't have the facemelter hop aggression that the real stuff has. Only snag will be getting the caraaroma. My LHBS didn't have it and the mail order place ships tomorrow. With the holidays, I hope it gets here by Friday.

TD

 

[crusader1612]

Thanks Stonebrewer!

I'm planning to brew this the Saturday after Christmas. I hope to get some feedback on the caraaroma. I think you're the first to try? Obviously the hot fermentation and oats might make it hard to say how close it is.

I'm tweaking the recipe from the last time as we speak. Hope to use some homegrown Chinook for the late additions.

And by the way, I think one of your previous brews of this you had claimed the hop schedule was dead on.
can you repost to save me some time? Otherwise going with whats below.

I'm going to be doing a 60 minute boil. On my system, 90 min I can't do without boilovers or top off water.

Tweaks to my grain bill now:
91.6% two row pale
6.2% CaraAroma
1.3% CaraPils
0.9% Chocolate (350º)

SRM clocks in at 18.8. my last attempt was 21.8 and was too dark compared with real stuff.
I've been having an unexplained issue of my beers being darker than intended, and I don't know why. Its not scorching in the boil or carmelizing in the mash as far as I can tell. When I plug in 12% CaraAroma, the color is WAAAYYY too dark. Here is a repost of the last side by side I brewed with BeerSmith giving my SRM at 21.8. Mine is the darker colored beer.

Shooting for OG 1.072
Mashing at 148º

What's the real AB ABV% again? 7.7? 7.2?

Chinook FWH, 60, 20,15,10,5,whirlpool added below 200º while actively chilling (2oz for all additions), and considering upping to 3oz or adding 45 and 30 minute additions of 2 oz each. I don't think that you can put too much hops in this. (11 gallons into fermenter). I'll probably end up using my hop spider for this and recirculating through the hop spider before run-off. Alternately, I could TRY to run off through a HopRocket filled with Chinook. That always makes a mess though, I think running chilled wort through a hop rocket is fairly useless. Only problem I forsee is how to put both my hop spider AND immersion chiller in the boil kettle. I don't think the spider fits inside the coil...

Plan to let settle in the conical and dump any break material before oxygenating and pitching.
TD

I've never done this beer.
However, when it comes to caraaroma, I can say that it may be darker than you think. the stuff I can get hold of is 400EBC, which is considerably darker than the Special B. Could there be a chance that your Caraaroma is darkerthan specified? that could explain your colour.

On a separate note, there hass been some talk recently regarding the Wyeast PC yeast West coast IPA, 1217 i think. Theres talk this is the stone house yeast. Does anyone have thought on this yeast or used it?

 

[TrickyDick]

I have the wyeast 1217 west coast IPA that I will be using in my arrogant bastard clone attempt.
It hadn't been available before now so I don't think anyone has used it for this beer yet.
As far as the cara aroma malt. The place I got mine from sells weyermann brand. I asked them what the °L rating was so as to be sure not to get too dark. I am half tempted to steep the specialty malts in this one and eyeball the addition, but I highly doubt that it would be possible for me to accomplish that, especially since I'd need to boil it and that would concentrate the wort.

TD

edit- brewed today. Still whirlpooling. Used a pound of pellets and between 5-6 oz (minus packaging) of homegrown whirlpool hops. Probably going to lose a gallon to the hops. Hit my pre-boil target. Had a small boilover. The color is much closer to the real AB from what I am seeing so far. Time will tell.

overshot OG 1.076, probably dilute with the starter some degree. Sample tastes much bitter than previous attempt, thats a good thing.

 

[TrickyDick]

I drew a sample from the fermentor - day 14. Color and taste seem very good. Bittering is much improved since last/initial effort.

Plan to cold crash tonight and rack to kegs tomorrow. Will pickup a bottle next week and plan for a Side by side, plus a tasting of v1.0 that I bottled soon. will see how close this gets. I am thinking CaraAroma is getting closer, more than C-150/SB combo (I had also used Breiss Special Roast last time too - way off).

TD

 

[GRBC]

I drew a sample from the fermentor - day 14. Color and taste seem very good. Bittering is much improved since last/initial effort.

Plan to cold crash tonight and rack to kegs tomorrow. Will pickup a bottle next week and plan for a Side by side, plus a tasting of v1.0 that I bottled soon. will see how close this gets. I am thinking CaraAroma is getting closer, more than C-150/SB combo (I had also used Breiss Special Roast last time too - way off).

TD

Briess extra special malt is what you want. It is a dark crystal like special B. Not special roast - that is a victory type biscuit malt.

 

[jageraholic]

I brewed the arrogant bastard clone that used only special B as the specialty malt and the color was off and it was a bit too dark fruity. Still was a good beer but more like a hoppy scotch ale. I swapped out the special b for cararoma and have that in primary right now. It seemed pretty dark and roasted. I think there was a hint of chocolate in the grain flavor as well. Ill post a further update in a few weeks when its kegged and carbed.

 

[ultravista]

I too found Special B too fruity, while good, it isn't the right grain. I've got the grains ready for the next brew day, 2 row and CaraAroma.

 

[grathan]

I used 8oz special B and found it really made this beer. No fruit other than the chinook.


Pale 88%
biscuit 3%
Caramunich %3
Special B %3
1oz 60,45,2
wlp001

I felt it was spot on except the yeast. (It was also the best beer I made last year). I felt a side by side the Stone had more of a british flavor from the yeast. Might use 1098, 1469, or 1099 next time.

 

[ultravista]

grathan - how do you like 001 vs. 007 in this clone? I have 001 on-hand and plan on using it for my next batch of Double Bastard.

 

[grathan]

I like wlp001. Like I said, it was the best beer that I made this year. I don't think I've ever regretted using wlp001.


Here is my tasting notes. Note that I didn't aerate so that probably explains the slick caramel notes. I made specific mention of rather having used wlp007 early in the first month, but this beer completely transformed in months 2-3. Once the chinook mellowed and the beer cleared out. I think this would be great beer to have on tap for extended periods of time.

9/1 - not carbed yet. Seems like it would make a nice base for an over the top late hopped ipa.
possibly centennial with some more late chinook. bitterness seems about perfect as is.
slightly sweet caramel and slickness on tongue. Might try dry hopping with some chinook after it carbs.

9/23- chinook almost has a skunky quality to it. This malt profile would almost make a perfect Red Ale. Use cascade/centennial for the hops. The yeast seems sweet, not sure of F.G but perhps the wlp007 would have been better, or even some Nottingham, Maris Otter might also be a sweet malt option.

10/19 This beer has changed quite a bit. The chinook grass bite fades to give way to a fairly malty brew. The head and lacing continues to astound, not sure if this is because of brewing without a pump..

11/3 this beer has completely cleared and has kept its unque malt profile. The hop bite has completely faded. Would like to try this recipe as a red ale with centennial late addition hop burst

11/22 still awesome

 

[erick0619]

So initial taste notes...fantastic! Still carbing up so a little flat, great nose even with the bubble gum which is retreating day by day. Nice mouthfeel, a bit sweeter than I would have thought, and packs a punch! Darker than the real thing, and needs to carb and compare with a bottle of the real deal, which I will do in a few weeks. Love the mouthfeel...the nose is very complex...did I mention it has a bit of booze? I have done this clone over and over and over again...never disappoints, even if it isn't quite AB yet...the fun is in the journey! May dry hop or randall this. I am growing fonder of the Chinook...ever had Sap by Tree House? FANTASTIC! Chinook makes this beer special...no matter what malt canvas you paint with. Cheers all!

Hey stone brewer I have a question for you. I'm brewing up your most recent recipe for AB I halved the recipe since I'm assuming that the amounts you posted were for a 10 gallon batch. Here's my question I ended up making a mistake and actually got the full 8oz of the carapils/dextrin, it's all been milled together so there's no way to take it out. what can I expect from this? Thank you in advanced for your response.

 

[IslandLizard]

Hey stone brewer I have a question for you. I'm brewing up your most recent recipe for AB I halved the recipe since I'm assuming that the amounts you posted were for a 10 gallon batch. Here's my question I ended up making a mistake and actually got the full 8oz of the carapils/dextrin, it's all been milled together so there's no way to take it out. what can I expect from this? Thank you in advanced for your response.

I can answer that.
It will be better with a bit more dextrin. I was going to double the dextrin myself, a bit more body really goes well.

I do think the late Chinook additions can be boosted a bit too, plus a 30' hop stand at 170°F. I ended up dry hopping my last try to get more upfront aroma I think was lacking.

 

[erick0619]

I can answer that.

It will be better with a bit more dextrin. I was going to double the dextrin myself, a bit more body really goes well.



I do think the late Chinook additions can be boosted a bit too, plus a 30' hop stand at 170°F. I ended up dry hopping my last try to get more upfront aroma I think was lacking.

Awesome thank you. One thing I couldn't seem to find was the mash temp I was thinking 149 because of the extra dextrin malt but I im not sure because I'm still pretty new to all of this. Also another question sorry lol I ended up buying 8 oz of chinook hops, again I forgot to only buy half. So what I was wondering if I should save the extra 4 oz for a dry hop, or use 2 oz for some late additions or a hop stand and the other 2 for a dry hop.

 

[ultravista]

How do you like the dry hopping? While Stone does not dry hop this beer, it sounds like a great idea for the home brewer. I intend on dry hopping my Double Bastard.