Can you Brew It recipe for Stone Arrogant Bastard

[KaSaBiS]

Anyone who has brewed this before, and have been listening to the podcasts (including the latest at NHC), have any recommendations for a fella like me? I have put this brew off for about a year now and it looks like their latest attempt was farther away, with jamil stating to go back to special B only rather than crystal 150..

Thanks for any input.

 

[socalhomebrewer]

I was told by a brewmaster at one of the San Diego brewery's that it is not special b. my assumption is it is a crystal malt, either a special made roast, or a blend of one or two crystals. I know the rumor was that AB was started as a experiment of a single specialty malt and single hop beer, but I believe that the key word that matters is 'started', I find that if so many brewers can't figure the recipe out, it I likely not as simple as it once was. Just my thought.

On that note, go with TBN #2 attempt recipe, and you will get close, don't forget to adapt the recipe to your system, and if your doing extract, adjust for your boil volume and hop utilization. I did an extract on this recipe with a 3.5 gallon boil and it was no where near the hops that AB has.

 

[wolfman_48442]

When I did mine, it was real similar to post #510, except I used 1oz hops at each point, and used London Ale yeast. It was HOPPY, but still turned out great.
Water adjustments were for the Brown Bitter profile from Bru'n Water spreadsheet.
I liked it better than the AB we can get around here, which is bottles only of various ages.

 

[JimTheHick]

Anyone who has brewed this before, and have been listening to the podcasts (including the latest at NHC), have any recommendations for a fella like me? I have put this brew off for about a year now and it looks like their latest attempt was farther away, with jamil stating to go back to special B only rather than crystal 150..

Thanks for any input.

Stone is probably just messing with us. Recipes can change slightly.

I made 10% special b/90% 2 row with an ounce of chinook at first wort, 45', 15', flame out, and 10' post boil (then did ice bath, 5.5 gal batch). It was REALLY good. I can rarely get stone AB so you tell me if it's close but jamil seems to think its close and if you disagree you still have a great beer!

 

[rustym]

I just brewed this the past weekend. Wow! I did the 90% 2-Row and 10% Special B. I used a 2.5 liter starter and it took off. My SG was 1.072. The smell and taste was, I think, so close to what AB tastes like. Of course I'll have to wait and see what fermentation does, but If it goes how I think it will, it will be darn good beer!

 

[ultravista]

Mine (90% 2-Row and 10% Special B) was somewhat close but the hop flavor and aroma is not there. It's a good brew but not quite a clone.

Rusty - how is the ho profile?

 

[rustym]

I think pretty good. I used 1oz instead of the 24 grams (about .85 oz.), all Chinook, and whirlpooled for the flameout. I'm hoping that adding a touch more will cause it to mellow into AB's profile. We'll see...

 

[rustym]

Alright! This brew is in the keg and has been carbing up now for two weeks. FG was 1.015 which ended at 7.5%. I had my first pint last night. I'm very pleased how it turned out. As a matter of fact, I think I'm going to enter it in an upcoming competition, at least for the feedback. The flavor of the Special B stood out and was very tasty. I don't think it needs another grain like the C150 thats been mentioned. The hoppiness wasn't
"in your face" like a really good IPA but the bitterness was and that's what I recall about AB. I liked the balance. I'm going to buy a AB tonight and taste side by side. I like this so much I'm about to brew another batch. I dont even think I'm going to do anything different unless the hop profile in the real AB is more defined.

I know that Arrogant Bastard, according to BJCP guidelines is included as an example of Cat23A, Specialty Beer. I'm trying to match up a base style (if there is one). I would almost consider it an American Strong Ale, but that's not a BJCP style. Anybody (judges?) have any advice or direction to give me on that?

 

[AnchorBock]

I might have heard wrong but I thought they said on CYBI that its really an Old Ale?

 

[rustym]

I'll go back and listen to it again. I think you're right though. I looked up Old Ale on the BJCP and that makes sense. Especially with the Special B giving it that nice "raiseny" flavor. Thanks for the input!

 

[rockfish42]

It's decidedly not an old ale unless you age the heck out of it, they'll ding you for hop aroma.

 

[rustym]

OK this keg is almost kicked. This was a really good beer. One of my favorites that I've brewed. This was SOOOOO close to Arrogant Bastard. The problem was the hops. It started off with the bitterness of AB but dissapated quickly over time. I think my flameout hop addition wasn't whirpooled long enough or even at the right temperature. I added them right at flameout and have since learned I shoud have waited just abit until the temp dropped a little. it was still very good, so good in fact that I have another 5 gallons fermenting right now. I bumped up the hops to 1.25 oz and hopefully got the flameout hops right. We'll see. I do think that the Special B is the only specialty grain that should be used. The malt profile, In my opinion, was spot on.

 

[balto charlie]

I know that Arrogant Bastard, according to BJCP guidelines is included as an example of Cat23A, Specialty Beer. I'm trying to match up a base style (if there is one). I would almost consider it an American Strong Ale, but that's not a BJCP style. Anybody (judges?) have any advice or direction to give me on that?

I always thought of AB as an old Ale with American hop flavor. Americans seem to take English style beers and hop the crap out of them. Anyway that's the way I categorize it.

 

[TriggerFingers]

Thinking about doing a half batch of AB this weekend. I am curious how long you leave in the primary if this one is not dry hopped? 4 weeks should be fine right?

 

[Dog House Brew]

If you pitch the correct amount of healthy yeast, 3 weeks is enough. I generally keep my beer in primary for 2-3 weeks depending on the gravity.

 

[ultravista]

I usually keep mine in the carboy for 3 to 4 weeks too, temperature controlled. I think 3 weeks is the least my brews have been on the yeast cake.

I've never dry hopped my AB. 90% 2-row, 10% Special B, and about 4 ounces of Chinook.

As far as flameout, I too will let my wort cool a little but before throwing the last ounce in. I cover the keggle so there's nothing getting in there ... not really a whirlpool but a steep.

This is my next brew, maybe this Sunday.

 

[TrubDog]

Brewed this back in early October and kegged it at 3 weeks. It is truly a great beer. Last weekend I bought a bomber of AG and poured the two side by side. Color and aroma were spot on and taste was sooo close. The kegged pour was in a frosted glass so the beer was quite a bit colder than the AG. After it warmed up a bit they were almost identical. Don't think I would change a thing.

 

[ultravista]

TrubDog - did you follow the hop schedule exactly? If no, what did you do?

 

[rustym]

I sent this beer to the Music City Brew Off competition just to see what it would do. I entered it in the Cat23A, Specialty Beer, because of the hop profile, which, according to Beersmith should be around ~95-100 IBU, which is too much for any of the related base styles like Old Ale. I scored a 36 and a 40 which I thought was pretty good since I kind of rushed it to get it shipped in time. Both judges dinged me for the hop profile. They both said there was no way this was close to 100 IBU. They said the hop nose was there and even got better as it warmed but one of the judges even commented that he "would be curious to know how I calculated the IBU's". I included the recipe with the entry as well so the 4 additions of Chinook (and I used 1 oz. each time) calulates to ~100 IBU. They both commented that the base malt was excellent and my clarity was excellent but the hops weren't there.

IMO, the hops in AB are not that forward as in a real hoppy IPA, but the bitterness is what sets it apart. I think the bitterness is there in my attempt and as TrubDog stated above I think the taste and color are identical. Any thoughts?

 

[ultravista]

My AB wasn't as hoppy as Stone's either. It was damned good but just not the same. The recipe calls for less than an ounce per addition; I however used a full ounce each time.

 

[afr0byte]

For all of you folks saying yours aren't as hoppy: How much gypsum/chloride are you using for your water? Also, presumably you're correcting for alpha acid differences?

 

[barrooze]

I wonder if using extract would add a more "hoppy" taste to the beer. Everyone says it's not as hoppy, and I'll bet Stone isn't using 100% pellets for this one. Could using hop extract be the key? (DISCLAIMER: I have no experience with using hop extracts!)

 

[rustym]

For all of you folks saying yours aren't as hoppy: How much gypsum/chloride are you using for your water? Also, presumably you're correcting for alpha acid differences?

I haven't corrected my water profile at all. I'm on a well and my water is very good right out of the tap but I have never had it tested. Maybe that would help. How much would the gypsum aid in hop utilization?

As far as AA corection, I did take into account the difference and obviously came up with more IBU's. The actual recipe for .85 oz calculated to abut 92 IBU's. Even if the actual AA was lower than Chinooks ~13%, the increase should have made up the difference.

I've made IPA's before and have had no problem before making a hoppy beer. But here's my question...I haven't had an AB in a couple of months, but I never thought that AB was as hoppy as, say a Stone IPA. I always thought that the hops in AB contributed to a noticeable bitterness that blended well with the grain bill. Set me staright here!

 

[afr0byte]

I haven't corrected my water profile at all. I'm on a well and my water is very good right out of the tap but I have never had it tested. Maybe that would help. How much would the gypsum aid in hop utilization?

As far as AA corection, I did take into account the difference and obviously came up with more IBU's. The actual recipe for .85 oz calculated to abut 92 IBU's. Even if the actual AA was lower than Chinooks ~13%, the increase should have made up the difference.

I've made IPA's before and have had no problem before making a hoppy beer. But here's my question...I haven't had an AB in a couple of months, but I never thought that AB was as hoppy as, say a Stone IPA. I always thought that the hops in AB contributed to a noticeable bitterness that blended well with the grain bill. Set me staright here!

The sulfate will tend to make the hops pop more. Other than lowering pH a bit, gypsum wouldn't really alter the utilization. Tasty Mcdole got pretty close, and he probably used a relatively standard Pale Ale profile. You may be able to find his profile (he uses it for most beers) if you google for Tasty Mcdole water profile.

 

[jtejedor]

It might been covered earlier in this thread or maybe another but I remember reading that stone blends their local water 50/50 with RO then gets sulfate level up to 200PPM.

 

[afr0byte]

It might been covered earlier in this thread or maybe another but I remember reading that stone blends their local water 50/50 with RO then gets sulfate level up to 200PPM.

I've heard the 50/50 thing, but I didn't know what sulfate level they targeted.

 

[chumpsteak]

I made the 10% special B version of this recipe and its been in the keg for a month now. I compared it head to head with a bottle of AB yesterday and I have a few comments. The beers were exactly the same color and clarity. Taste was not the same though. The AB was much more bitter than my clone and had a deeper more rich flavor profile. I picked up hints of caramel and chocolate in the AB which my clone does not have. My cloned version is relatively close but it's definitely missing something in both the malt bill and hops bill. I used 100% RO water with gypsum, calcium chloride, and lactic acid in the mash. Mash pH was calculated at around 5.4. I mashed at 147 and hit all my numbers dead on.

I think there are several things I would do different if I brew this again. I will definitely replace some of the special B with a small amount of chocolate or roasted and maybe even a different crystal malt. The real AB also had more body and much better head retention than my clone. I think I either need to mash at a higher temp or maybe there's some carapils in the real one. Also, I think the hop flavor was fairly close, but the real AB had way more deep bitterness than mine. I think maybe I would use more hops early next time.

Don't get me wrong, the clone is a very good beer, it's just not really Arrogant Bastard. I have 5 more gallons of it so I have 2oz of light oak chips floating around it in the carboy now.

 

[rustym]

OK, thank you Afrobyte

After reading what you wrote, I started looking into water...BIG MISTEAK

It's all I've been raeding for the past 3 days. I've listened to the whole "waterganza" thing on Jamils podcast and now am looking at spreadsheets and everything else! I know this is , but I think you may have pointed me in the right direction. I'll brew this again in a couple of weeks and see what happens.

 

[TrubDog]

I used this:

All Chinook
1oz at 60
1oz at 30
1oz at 10
1oz at 0

I basically moved up the hop schedule a bit. Still did a 90 min boil.

 

[rustym]

TrubDog: How did come out?