Can you Brew It recipe for Stone Arrogant Bastard

[Stubbeez]

Intersting that you say that Stub, mine was malty, hoppy but not bitter enough. So my V.2 of this recipe will include the C-150 (maybe some Special B in there too) and one more 60 min hop addition. How about yours, was it bitter enough like an A.B or hop aroma and flavor?

I have to say mine was not very bitter either. I didnt even get much hop aroma, if any. When I brew it again, I am going to add the remaining malt extract at knockout so that my boil gravity is right around 1.050. I will pull my hop bag during cooling, and then I might even consider dry hopping to compensate for that late hop addition in the future if it needs more. I think the flavors were on, and I used the Special B at 10%, 90% Extra Light DME. Definitely a "good mistake" and I learned a lot from that batch!

 

[CastleBlack]

You gotta love the Special B but I think there is something darker in this brew, which is why I am aiming towards C-150. I must admit I havent tried it yet though so cant say for sure. I am planning on doing so though between brews.

As for the hops, yup, more Chinook needed for bittering in my case, dry hopping was probably adequate. I think my A.B clone is still green will give it a total 6-8 weeks in the bottle.

Happy brewing!

 

[EricCSU]

You gotta love the Special B but I think there is something darker in this brew, which is why I am aiming towards C-150. I must admit I havent tried it yet though so cant say for sure. I am planning on doing so though between brews.

As for the hops, yup, more Chinook needed for bittering in my case, dry hopping was probably adequate. I think my A.B clone is still green will give it a total 6-8 weeks in the bottle.

Happy brewing!

Special B is 145-155lov. So I don't understand what you mean by "something darker".

Eric

 

[afr0byte]

Special B is 145-155lov. So I don't understand what you mean by "something darker".

Eric

All of the Special B's I've purchased have been 120 lov. I believe Dingemans is 150lov, though. So, perhaps Stone uses Dingemans.

 

[CastleBlack]

Special B is 145-155lov. So I don't understand what you mean by "something darker".

Eric

You are probably right Eric, but multiple sources have multiple numbers. To give you a recent example, if you go to midwest supplies they state it as a "94 to 133" L malt, if you go to northern brewer they state it as a 147 L malt, on the other hand if you go to rebel brewer they state it as 148 L etc... I have also read it be stated as a 115 L in the midwest catalog. Quite hte deviation.

Last, from what Tasty has said before, he found Special B good but not adequate. He mentions how C-150 may well have a darker and deeper note required to resemble the A.B.

But it is all about trial and error. I will be giving the C-150, single hop, single malt little bastard a try. I ll keep you guys posted.

As always happy brewing!

 

[shmEk]

They have stacks of sacks of C-150 in the brewery. Special B at Morebeer.com shows 150L range, and AustinHomebrewSupply sells C-150 straight out.

 

[CastleBlack]

They have stacks of sacks of C-150 in the brewery. Special B at Morebeer.com shows 150L range, and AustinHomebrewSupply sells C-150 straight out.

I think you are spot on with the C-150. Maybe sth like 10-12% in the mash.

Only one way to find out.

Happy brewing everyone.

 

[heliumbro]

Finally had the opportunity to compare my first attempt with a bomber of the real thing after a beer run to the states. All of that hop character and bitterness has faded in my beer, leaving me with a malty, relatively mild in bitterness beer that was a darker shade of red than the SAB. However, the flavor of the real AB reminded me of a bottle of my clone shortly after it carbed up. I like this recipe and I am going to keep playing with it. Even if it wasn't a complete success it still makes a great beer.

 

[Trail]

Kind of tempted to do this, though my brew pipeline is spoken for at least three batches ahead at this point. (I need more damn buckets.) It feels a little heretical, though, because Arrogant Bastard is in my top five, and one of the only beers about which I would change NOTHING if given the chance.

At least with my BIPA my plan was "Something LIKE St. Austell Proper Black, but better."

The stakes feel higher when the target's as specific as a Bastard!

 

[CastleBlack]

Kind of tempted to do this, though my brew pipeline is spoken for at least three batches ahead at this point. (I need more damn buckets.) It feels a little heretical, though, because Arrogant Bastard is in my top five, and one of the only beers about which I would change NOTHING if given the chance.

At least with my BIPA my plan was "Something LIKE St. Austell Proper Black, but better."

The stakes feel higher when the target's as specific as a Bastard!

I know how that is. Been there a few times before.

Good luck with your brewing!

 

[Trail]

I know how that is. Been there a few times before.

Good luck with your brewing!

Thanks, you too. One potential plus to doing an AB clone is that so few of my friends like it, and therefore I'd have to share less!

 

[CastleBlack]

Thanks, you too. One potential plus to doing an AB clone is that so few of my friends like it, and therefore I'd have to share less!

About the sharing, I know exactly what you mean.

I just cant hide it when I am about to brew a beer and unfortunately when its ready a lot of it goes out the door.

Happy brewing!

 

[Dog House Brew]

About the sharing, I know exactly what you mean.

I just cant hide it when I am about to brew a beer and unfortunately when its ready a lot of it goes out the door.

Happy brewing!

Like when they come in and say, "Hey you got any of that free homebrew."

Hey Castle haven't you brewed a few of the different versions of this? If so what is your favorite recipe? Everytime I buy a Bastard I'm surprised how different it is each time.

 

[Donkeybalboa]

I have to say mine was not very bitter either. I didnt even get much hop aroma, if any. When I brew it again, I am going to add the remaining malt extract at knockout so that my boil gravity is right around 1.050. I will pull my hop bag during cooling, and then I might even consider dry hopping to compensate for that late hop addition in the future if it needs more. I think the flavors were on, and I used the Special B at 10%, 90% Extra Light DME. Definitely a "good mistake" and I learned a lot from that batch!

How much Chinook are you guys using at each hop addition? I was thinking 2 oz at 60, 1 oz at 30, 15, and flameout...then dryhopping...is this overkill? I see many recipes only doing .5 oz at the addition times.

 

[Trail]

Everytime I buy a Bastard I'm surprised how different it is each time.

I've sort of noticed what you're talking about, but I attributed it to the whole "lupulin shift" thing. Hell, my Sam Adams started tasting different around the same time too, and not in a good way. :cross:

 

[CastleBlack]

Like when they come in and say, "Hey you got any of that free homebrew."

Hey Castle haven't you brewed a few of the different versions of this? If so what is your favorite recipe? Everytime I buy a Bastard I'm surprised how different it is each time.

I am at a brew pause right now, haven't brewed since 2/22/12 when I made Ruination IPA. Thing is, my briess 50 pounder is running low and I gotta go get another one so i can do the "3 little bastards" project (Arrogant Bastard versions w/ C-150, or Extra Dark Crystal or Special B) That one will be fun to sorta make three brews in one go. Single specialty malt and single hopped. Best A.B I have had is from tap. Keg just tastes so much better to me. Bottle can be fine too, but still very different. The one I made last time lacked hoppyness/bitterness so in this version I am adding one whole addition of hops. (90 min, 60 min, 30 min, 15 min and F/O). This beer just cant get too bitter IMO and you just gotta love Chinook!

Happy brewing to ya.

 

[Hammy71]

Just tapped my latest version.

6Gallon batch.

90% 2-row
10 Special B

1.2oz Chinook @ 85,45,15,0 minutes.

Upped the OG to 1.072 and used WLP002 to get the beer down to 1.018 (which is where AB really is.)

Verdict:

Bitterness fom the hops. I'm happy with that.

Color....it's close, maybe a little too red for my eyes.

Taste, well it's ok but not arrogant bastard. Just like the 150C version I did, I think the 10% Special B is too much. The flavor from the malt isn't right. What I feel is missing is some residual bitterness that isn't from the hops. I like the suggestion that was made a page or two ago. Next round will be 2-row, maybe 5% 150C, and a small amount of roasted barley. This should add that bitterness I'm looking for plus the color that I want without dealing with the malty aftertaste that too much 150 or Special B delivers.

At least they are tasty failures!! :rockin:

 

[jtejedor]

Just tapped my latest version.

6Gallon batch.

90% 2-row
10 Special B

1.2oz Chinook @ 85,45,15,0 minutes.

Upped the OG to 1.072 and used WLP002 to get the beer down to 1.018 (which is where AB really is.)

Verdict:

Bitterness fom the hops. I'm happy with that.

Color....it's close, maybe a little too red for my eyes.

Taste, well it's ok but not arrogant bastard. Just like the 150C version I did, I think the 10% Special B is too much. The flavor from the malt isn't right. What I feel is missing is some residual bitterness that isn't from the hops. I like the suggestion that was made a page or two ago. Next round will be 2-row, maybe 5% 150C, and a small amount of roasted barley. This should add that bitterness I'm looking for plus the color that I want without dealing with the malty aftertaste that too much 150 or Special B delivers.

At least they are tasty failures!! :rockin:

Hopefully I get to this soon but I think your on the right track. My last try was a combo of 150 and special B and even at 10% of the grist I think the color was a little lighter then regular AB. I thought the taste was pretty close though. Can't wait to try it again and add some oak. Oaked AB is delish.

 

[CastleBlack]

Just tapped my latest version.

6Gallon batch.

90% 2-row
10 Special B

1.2oz Chinook @ 85,45,15,0 minutes.

Upped the OG to 1.072 and used WLP002 to get the beer down to 1.018 (which is where AB really is.)

Verdict:

Bitterness fom the hops. I'm happy with that.

Color....it's close, maybe a little too red for my eyes.

Taste, well it's ok but not arrogant bastard. Just like the 150C version I did, I think the 10% Special B is too much. The flavor from the malt isn't right. What I feel is missing is some residual bitterness that isn't from the hops. I like the suggestion that was made a page or two ago. Next round will be 2-row, maybe 5% 150C, and a small amount of roasted barley. This should add that bitterness I'm looking for plus the color that I want without dealing with the malty aftertaste that too much 150 or Special B delivers.

At least they are tasty failures!! :rockin:

I am very curious to see the results on this one. Roasted barely sounds like it might do the trick. Good luck with your brew and Happy brewing!

 

[afr0byte]

Just tapped my latest version.

6Gallon batch.

90% 2-row
10 Special B

1.2oz Chinook @ 85,45,15,0 minutes.

Upped the OG to 1.072 and used WLP002 to get the beer down to 1.018 (which is where AB really is.)

Verdict:

Bitterness fom the hops. I'm happy with that.

Color....it's close, maybe a little too red for my eyes.

Taste, well it's ok but not arrogant bastard. Just like the 150C version I did, I think the 10% Special B is too much. The flavor from the malt isn't right. What I feel is missing is some residual bitterness that isn't from the hops. I like the suggestion that was made a page or two ago. Next round will be 2-row, maybe 5% 150C, and a small amount of roasted barley. This should add that bitterness I'm looking for plus the color that I want without dealing with the malty aftertaste that too much 150 or Special B delivers.

At least they are tasty failures!!

What's your mash pH like? What's your water like? Water could be the difference.

 

[Hammy71]

I haven't a clue. Going on almost 4 years and I've always used my tap water, sometimes mixed with RO. Never been an issue. While it's true it could/will have an impact, it seems no one has really 'cloned' this thing yet, so I doubt my water is the culprit. There is something just missing from the 90/10 malt recipe. I'm sure the water will make a 'difference', but it's something bigger than that.

 

[CastleBlack]

I haven't a clue. Going on almost 4 years and I've always used my tap water, sometimes mixed with RO. Never been an issue. While it's true it could/will have an impact, it seems no one has really 'cloned' this thing yet, so I doubt my water is the culprit. There is something just missing from the 90/10 malt recipe. I'm sure the water will make a 'difference', but it's something bigger than that.

Hammy I think you are right about the missing ingredient. Surely the hops are not it. This sound like a Chinook single hop brew. You can pick the pine notes up right off the bat. Could it then be Roasted Barley or something in that family like Black Patent or even Carafa III?

Only one way to find out...

Happy brewing Everybody and have a lot of fun cloning this one, I know I do!

 

[CastleBlack]

Tried the A.B over dinner again. Definitely getting that sweet, raisin like taste, a lot of Chinook but its no A.B.

Gotta keep trying I guess.

Happy brewing every one.

 

[heliumbro]

CastleBlack,

I'm wondering if it's some kind of heavily kilned malt as well. Like balancing that small amount roasted barley in an Irish Red. It may not be in the Stone recipe, but it tastes like there is a bitter/roasty ... 'something'... that's just missing from the clone. I think for the next batch I'm going to add a very small percentage of roasted barley or pale chocolate to play around.

 

[CastleBlack]

CastleBlack,

I'm wondering if it's some kind of heavily kilned malt as well. Like balancing that small amount roasted barley in an Irish Red. It may not be in the Stone recipe, but it tastes like there is a bitter/roasty ... 'something'... that's just missing from the clone. I think for the next batch I'm going to add a very small percentage of roasted barley or pale chocolate to play around.

Helium,
that was my mind as well. I am picking up that roastyness too. I am not certain if it is roasted barley though. To me roasted barley even in small quantities (1/8 th LB, for example) has a well defined signature. Yet, the brew does have "darkness". I was thinking something in the order of Carafa II or perhaps even III. That or something like debittered black (for this one I am a bit hesitant, not getting much roastyness from it in general).

 

[socalhomebrewer]

I just brewed 2 versions of the arrogant bastard. I listed to the TBN podcast of the second try. I bumped up the specialty malt to 11% and used the C-150 for the specialty malt. I used the 85, 45, 15, 1 minute additions but I used one version with all Nelson and a second version I used chinook for 85 & 45 and then used Nelson at 15 & 1 additions. I used the chinook on one of these because a fellow brewers told me that they felt the Nelson as a bittering hop was as sharp of a bitter as chinook. We will see.

 

[heliumbro]

I've been rereading the craft of stone brewing. Now the story goes that Arrogant was created as an accident when they were scaling Stone Pale Ale into a new brewing system. Though the exact story of realizing the error differs, they calculated wrong and ended up using too much grain and hops. Now recommended Stone Pale Ale clones are made with 2Row, C-60 and C-75 with Columbus and Ahtanum. I plugged it into beersmith and messed with proportions, and it seems like those ingredients can craft a similar beer to SAB... on paper... in theory... I'm wondering if this is just another piece of disinformation put out by Stone, or if they have tweaked the truth of the story just slightly to not let on to what is in it...
This clone recipe is turning into a homebrew version of the Kryptos Sculpture!

 

[socalhomebrewer]

I wouldn't doubt that Is how it started, but the problem is all they story's have the common denominator of it was an accident in the BEGINNING. There has not been many clues as to what has happens with this beer from inception of the beer to what is on shelves now.

In my opinion......I am a firm believer that the current beer has been messed with since the early stone years IPA recipe, but I think the recipe is still simple as ever and has something to do with process that is not easy to duplicate at the home brew level. But in the end i think this is a simple grain an hop bill and why it earned the name arrogant bastard. Thing that sucks is they will not say a word about the beer except that they bottle and sell it

 

[CastleBlack]

I wouldn't doubt that Is how it started, but the problem is all they story's have the common denominator of it was an accident in the BEGINNING. There has not been many clues as to what has happens with this beer from inception of the beer to what is on shelves now.

In my opinion......I am a firm believer that the current beer has been messed with since the early stone years IPA recipe, but I think the recipe is still simple as ever and has something to do with process that is not easy to duplicate at the home brew level. But in the end i think this is a simple grain an hop bill and why it earned the name arrogant bastard. Thing that sucks is they will not say a word about the beer except that they bottle and sell it

I think this is the closest thing to the truth. A.B cannot just have C-60 & 75, its gotta be much darker than that, roasted even as we said before. In my mind the closest thing I have sampled to the A.B is something like a "Big" Irish Red, not an American Amber. Also, columbus hops wont do it for me. I am not getting that "spice" note that we usually get from Columbus, I am near certain it is Chinook but I havent tried the Nelson hops so far. In my mind it is as you said, incredibly simple: Single Hop and Single specialty malt. C-150 sounds so promising. I cant wait to experiment with it.

Happy brewing to you all.

 

[afr0byte]

I think this is the closest thing to the truth. A.B cannot just have C-60 & 75, its gotta be much darker than that, roasted even as we said before. In my mind the closest thing I have sampled to the A.B is something like a "Big" Irish Red, not an American Amber. Also, columbus hops wont do it for me. I am not getting that "spice" note that we usually get from Columbus, I am near certain it is Chinook but I havent tried the Nelson hops so far. In my mind it is as you said, incredibly simple: Single Hop and Single specialty malt. C-150 sounds so promising. I cant wait to experiment with it.

Happy brewing to you all.

I'd have to agree and disagree on the Irish Red comment. Sure, it definitely has the dark cyrstal flavors, but I don't personally taste roasted barley. I think dark crystals can have a burnt, almost roast, flavor. As far as the hops...and I know you didn't say this...but I doubt it's Nelson Suavin, as they weren't released until 2000. I agree that it's most likely Chinook.