Can you Brew It recipe for Stone Arrogant Bastard

[Dog House Brew]

The only way I can explain it ...lacking bitterness that wasn't hops. That's why I'm intrigued by the roasted barley.

I just cracked one of these as I write. There is dryness on the back of the toungue and hop bitterness in front. I don't taste roased barley, not saying it isn't there. The Chinook harshness is really in the after bitterness. Everytime I drink one of these I remember how good it is. Did you brew the C-150 Bastard? Someone will stumble onto the recipe!

 

[Dog House Brew]

Never mind I read Hammy's tasting notes a few pages back on the 150L. Now I don't know what to do.

 

[CastleBlack]

Never mind I read Hammy's tasting notes a few pages back on the 150L. Now I don't know what to do.

Go with the gut, make the C-150. I support.-

Worse case, you end up with an awesome, yet not so Bastardly, brew. That cant be that bad now, can it?

I am surely making a small batch of bastards, one with C-150 surely.

 

[Hammy71]

Go with the gut, make the C-150. I support.-

Worse case, you end up with an awesome, yet not so Bastardly, brew. That cant be that bad now, can it?

I am surely making a small batch of bastards, one with C-150 surely.

Oh, I'm not saying the 150 was horrible or undrinkable. Just not AB to me.

 

[CastleBlack]

Oh, I'm not saying the 150 was horrible or undrinkable. Just not AB to me.

Could the freshness have anything to do with it you think?

This is a relatively big brew, at 7.2 - 7.5 ABV it takes some time to condition. Plus the store bought AB will never be as fresh as homebrew. Could our brews, even with C-150 just be too green?

My first bastard clone was bottled on 1/9/12 and I have been having a bottle a week to taste test it. I can tell you it is still green even for a brew with so much hoppyness.

 

[afr0byte]

Could the freshness have anything to do with it you think?

This is a relatively big brew, at 7.2 - 7.5 ABV it takes some time to condition. Plus the store bought AB will never be as fresh as homebrew. Could our brews, even with C-150 just be too green?

My first bastard clone was bottled on 1/9/12 and I have been having a bottle a week to taste test it. I can tell you it is still green even for a brew with so much hoppyness.

When you say green, what specifically are you talking about? I assume you're not talking about acetaldehyde (green apple flavor). Is the beer not clear? Is it fruity in some other sense? Are there fusel alcohols?

 

[barrooze]

he means it's too young and still needs to be further conditioned.

 

[afr0byte]

he means it's too young and still needs to be further conditioned.

I realize that much. However, usually you condition something to remove some kind of off flavor (as with lagering).

 

[CastleBlack]

When you say green, what specifically are you talking about? I assume you're not talking about acetaldehyde (green apple flavor). Is the beer not clear? Is it fruity in some other sense? Are there fusel alcohols?

No mate, I do not ferment high when I am making pale ales and IPAs, so hopefully I do not have any fusels in there. (As as side note, I have only had chlorophenols from bad H2O and trust me you can spot that as soon as the bottle opens. Still drank that crap, cant waste a brew).

When I say green brew I mean brew that it simply not at its peak condition just yet. I get this a whole lot with higher gravity ales, even DIPAs despite the overly hoppyness. Give it time and taste one every week or so, you ll see a big difference from one week to the next.

 

[afr0byte]

No mate, I do not ferment high when I am making pale ales and IPAs, so hopefully I do not have any fusels in there. (As as side note, I have only had chlorophenols from bad H2O and trust me you can spot that as soon as the bottle opens. Still drank that crap, cant waste a brew).

When I say green brew I mean brew that it simply not at its peak condition just yet. I get this a whole lot with higher gravity ales, even DIPAs despite the overly hoppyness. Give it time and taste one every week or so, you ll see a big difference from one week to the next.

Again, I know what people mean by conditioning. I understand that bigger beers change (usually improve) with time. However, there's normally a reason they improve. What flavor aspect do you expect to change that will make the beer taste closer to AB?

 

[CastleBlack]

Again, I know what people mean by conditioning. I understand that bigger beers change (usually improve) with time. However, there's normally a reason they improve. What flavor aspect do you expect to change that will make the beer taste closer to AB?

Rounder, smoother, more uniform taste. The hops and malt will blend together better. It wont be hop or malt forward, simply a good attempt at A.B. and very reminiscent thereof. I dry hopped this one quite a bit and hope that by the time the brew is conditioned (I am estimating about an 8 week peak) the hops will still be pleasantly present.

 

[afr0byte]

Rounder, smoother, more uniform taste. The hops and malt will blend together better. It wont be hop or malt forward, simply a good attempt at A.B. and very reminiscent thereof. I dry hopped this one quite a bit and hope that by the time the brew is conditioned (I am estimating about an 8 week peak) the hops will still be pleasantly present.

I understand the smoother and tastes blending (tanins/etc falling out of solution will do that). The last time I had AB, however, it was hop forward (at least for my pallet). Are you still getting tannins from the dry hopping? It seems like some kind of fining could fix/age that faster (obviously it's too late if it's in the bottle).

 

[CastleBlack]

I understand the smoother and tastes blending (tanins/etc falling out of solution will do that). The last time I had AB, however, it was hop forward (at least for my pallet). Are you still getting tannins from the dry hopping? It seems like some kind of fining could fix/age that faster (obviously it's too late if it's in the bottle).

Yeah I dont mind waiting this one out. I will be brewing in between the waiting time so I kinda have a rotation thing going on. I box my brew and mark the dates I want to have a tasting. Usually its 2 week, 4 week and 6 week. But it also depends on the brew. For my most recent Founders Breakfast Stout Clone, I am aging it for 10 months. Yes, thats 300 days.- It's an imperial with 8.3 - 8.6 ABV. Its very coffee forward now but wont be by its prime time.

 

[Hammy71]

Could the freshness have anything to do with it you think?

This is a relatively big brew, at 7.2 - 7.5 ABV it takes some time to condition. Plus the store bought AB will never be as fresh as homebrew. Could our brews, even with C-150 just be too green?

My first bastard clone was bottled on 1/9/12 and I have been having a bottle a week to taste test it. I can tell you it is still green even for a brew with so much hoppyness.

Nah, Brewed back in November with 4 weeks in the primary and 4 weeks in the keg before another couple in the keezer. It's not that big of a beer and the 150 version is still on tap. In fact I'm thinking this beer needs to be drank pretty young since it starts to loose the hop flavor very quickly, sorta like an IPA.

 

[afr0byte]

Yeah I dont mind waiting this one out. I will be brewing in between the waiting time so I kinda have a rotation thing going on. I box my brew and mark the dates I want to have a tasting. Usually its 2 week, 4 week and 6 week. But it also depends on the brew. For my most recent Founders Breakfast Stout Clone, I am aging it for 10 months. Yes, thats 300 days.- It's an imperial with 8.3 - 8.6 ABV. Its very coffee forward now but wont be by its prime time.

Personally I'd drink that as soon as possible. Coffee flavor will fade quite quickly in my experience. Then you're left with stale coffee flavor. Plus, 8.3% beers don't typically need 10 months of aging (I had a 9.7% beer (dark strong) that tasted great after 4 months.).

 

[Apendecto]

Just to throw my hat into the ring...

I didn't understand why I sometimes love Arrogant Bastard and sometimes it just wouldn't do the trick. For the longest time I couldn't figure it out and then I realized the bombers from the places that didn't sell a lot tasted better and I figured out it was because I liked AB with a little more age on it.

Long story short, I think this is a tough brew to clone because I think it evolves a lot as it ages. I recently went to the Stone brewery and almost everything was insanely intense. Not fresh, in my opinion, but almost harsh. Call me crazy. I love most of Stone's brews back home. Must be age. AB is intense from their tap. Fresh dated ones at home, well, I can't describe too well since I drink the aged stuff. And older bottles seem more rounded out and less rough.

Maybe we are all cloning different AB's.

 

[afr0byte]

Just to throw my hat into the ring...

I didn't understand why I sometimes love Arrogant Bastard and sometimes it just wouldn't do the trick. For the longest time I couldn't figure it out and then I realized the bombers from the places that didn't sell a lot tasted better and I figured out it was because I liked AB with a little more age on it.

Long story short, I think this is a tough brew to clone because I think it evolves a lot as it ages. I recently went to the Stone brewery and almost everything was insanely intense. Not fresh, in my opinion, but almost harsh. Call me crazy. I love most of Stone's brews back home. Must be age. AB is intense from their tap. Fresh dated ones at home, well, I can't describe too well since I drink the aged stuff. And older bottles seem more rounded out and less rough.

Maybe we are all cloning different AB's.

That sounds like tanins from dry hopping/hops in general.

 

[CastleBlack]

Might be right guys, can say till I taste it, then I ll know for sure.

For the imperial stout, give it time.- Its drinkable right out the primary but I wouldn't recommend it. I am ageing it so I ll have some left for next fall/winter. I used to think dark brews were fine had fresh, was wrong.

As for IPAs surely have them fresh, hop taste does fade quite rapidly. Dont know how to get that great A.B taste yet but hopefully from the great input from this thread and a lot of experimentation we ll get to the bottom of it!

Happy brewing everybody.

 

[jtejedor]

Its all very much preference I love drinking my Russian Imperial Stouts young. Time can definitely do some good things to beer but then again some people say to let an IIPA age for a while before drinking.

 

[CastleBlack]

Its all very much preference I love drinking my Russian Imperial Stouts young. Time can definitely do some good things to beer but then again some people say to let an IIPA age for a while before drinking.

Yup. I think you said it best.

 

[Stubbeez]

So I brewed my extract version in September (I posted it in this thread around Aug/Sept), and I couldnt understand why there was no hop presence. That is when I discovered the meaning of boil gravity (I could only boil 3 gallons at that time). I had always heard of it, but never really paid attention or learned what it was and the effects it could have on hop utilization.
I really didnt care for the beer I ended up making, though other people said they really liked it. I tried a Double Bastard for the first time and it actually reminded me of the beer I made - but I did like the Double Bastard. Mine was just really malty, high in alcohol, and not much hop flavor.
When I brew it again, I will do a full boil. The only thing missing was the hop flavor and aroma. I was disappointed, to say the least. That was a valuable lesson to learn though. I bought Designing Great Beers and that is when I found out about the BG.

 

[CastleBlack]

So I brewed my extract version in September (I posted it in this thread around Aug/Sept), and I couldnt understand why there was no hop presence. That is when I discovered the meaning of boil gravity (I could only boil 3 gallons at that time). I had always heard of it, but never really paid attention or learned what it was and the effects it could have on hop utilization.
I really didnt care for the beer I ended up making, though other people said they really liked it. I tried a Double Bastard for the first time and it actually reminded me of the beer I made - but I did like the Double Bastard. Mine was just really malty, high in alcohol, and not much hop flavor.
When I brew it again, I will do a full boil. The only thing missing was the hop flavor and aroma. I was disappointed, to say the least. That was a valuable lesson to learn though. I bought Designing Great Beers and that is when I found out about the BG.

Intersting that you say that Stub, mine was malty, hoppy but not bitter enough. So my V.2 of this recipe will include the C-150 (maybe some Special B in there too) and one more 60 min hop addition. How about yours, was it bitter enough like an A.B or hop aroma and flavor?

 

[Ply318ci]

Got a question on this if I am an ounce short of hops for the zero minute addition should I just spread the additions out (90-45-0)to get a zero minute addition or just not do the zero minute addition or use some kent holdings I got left over. since I have everything I need to brew (except the last ounce of chinook hops) and since the closest LBS is a two hour round trip and I don't want to pay shipping on a ounce of hops I am curious about this thanks.

 

[barrooze]

Got a question on this if I am an ounce short of hops for the zero minute addition should I just spread the additions out (90-45-0)to get a zero minute addition or just not do the zero minute addition or use some kent holdings I got left over. since I have everything I need to brew (except the last ounce of chinook hops) and since the closest LBS is a two hour round trip and I don't want to pay shipping on a ounce of hops I am curious about this thanks.

If you have some other hops you could use to get the same IBU at the 90 minute addition, I'd use those there and use the Chinook at the 0 minute addition. The flavors/aromas taken from the 90 minute addition of Chinook are definitely less pronounced than the zero minute. What you're predominantly getting with a 90 minute addition is just bitterness, so if you can use a different hop to get you that same amount of bitterness, do that.

 

[Ply318ci]

Great that helps a ton thanks will do.

 

[barrooze]

Out of curiosity, what other hops do you have on hand that you'd be able to use at the 90 minutes addition?

 

[Ply318ci]

Computer glitch repost from previous.

 

[Ply318ci]

I would use target hops I have left over from a previous brew. Not quite as bitter lower acid by 2% or so.

 

[barrooze]

Sounds good! Just up the amount of Target to match the IBU contribution of the higher AA% chinook.

 

[Ply318ci]

Thanks.