Can you Brew It recipe for Stone Arrogant Bastard

[CidahMastah]

During the mash it really had the aroma of AB and I was excited. It is still a good beer but I was not able to reproduce CYBI results. So far I just adjusted the late hops 2oz @ 15m and 2oz at 0m. To me the color needs to be more red.

I just thought I would chime in on this too. The CYBI version wasn't as good as the AHS extract kit version IMO. I know... extract!! ha

Anyway, I think they have a couple things wrong, one is, I think special B (shoudl be C120) might be wrong and I think the yeast (Should be WL051) as well. It attenuates less and leaves more body.

The AHS Arrogant B uses C120 and WL 051. It left the beer with more body than the CYBI yeast choice. and the flavor was spot on.

While this is a great beer, I am surprised they deemed it cloned, it just isn't the same IMO. I find it funy they criticized people for using "only C120" and how the grain bill must be more complex (on their first attempt). Then they turned around and simplified their grain bill to just special B, which is very similar to C120.

I plan on doing a taste test with a bottle of the extract AHS clone, and my two runs of AB from CYBI as well as a true AB from the store. Will let you know how it turns out.

 

[No_Party]

No_Party, that seems like a lot of specialty grain for an extract version of the Bastard. Maybe a small table sugar addition to bring the FG down a bit, too.

Took some of your advice and changed it up a bit. I brewed this on Sunday. It blew the blow off tube on Monday while I was at work and made a helluva mess. Forgot to take a picture. SWMBO was not pleased. Cleaned and sanitized the blow off and replaced, no problems since. Somehow missed my OG.

Ingredients
4.00 lb Light Dry Extract (8.0 SRM) Dry Extract 85.11 %
0.31 lb Special B Malt (145.0 SRM) Grain 6.60 %
0.19 lb Black Malt (De-Bittered) (550.0 SRM) Grain 4.04 %
0.50 oz Chinook [11.90 %] (85 min) Hops 34.3 IBU
0.40 oz Chinook [11.90 %] (45 min) Hops 23.7 IBU
0.40 oz Chinook [11.90 %] (15 min) Hops 12.8 IBU
0.40 oz Chinook [11.90 %] (0 min) Hops -
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
0.20 lb Turbinado (10.0 SRM) (Boil 15.0 min) Sugar 4.26 %
1 Pkgs Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007) Yeast-Ale

Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.074 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.071 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.018 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.015 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7.41 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 7.32 %
Bitterness: 70.9 IBU Calories: 321 cal/pint
Est Color: 28.4 SRM

 

[bigbeergeek]

Took some of your advice and changed it up a bit. I brewed this on Sunday. It blew the blow off tube on Monday while I was at work and made a helluva mess. Forgot to take a picture. SWMBO was not pleased. Cleaned and sanitized the blow off and replaced, no problems since. Somehow missed my OG.

Ingredients
4.00 lb Light Dry Extract (8.0 SRM) Dry Extract 85.11 %
0.31 lb Special B Malt (145.0 SRM) Grain 6.60 %
0.19 lb Black Malt (De-Bittered) (550.0 SRM) Grain 4.04 %
0.50 oz Chinook [11.90 %] (85 min) Hops 34.3 IBU
0.40 oz Chinook [11.90 %] (45 min) Hops 23.7 IBU
0.40 oz Chinook [11.90 %] (15 min) Hops 12.8 IBU
0.40 oz Chinook [11.90 %] (0 min) Hops -
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
0.20 lb Turbinado (10.0 SRM) (Boil 15.0 min) Sugar 4.26 %
1 Pkgs Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007) Yeast-Ale

Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.074 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.071 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.018 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.015 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7.41 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 7.32 %
Bitterness: 70.9 IBU Calories: 321 cal/pint
Est Color: 28.4 SRM

Looks awesome! Update with some tasting notes!

 

[phished880]

I kegged mine late last night. FG 1.014. I must say I'm pretty excited by this one. The hydro sample tasted and smelled great.

I will do a tasting with some folks and post their notes. At this point, prior to carbonation, I could say I don't care if it's cloned because it's tasty!

 

[KCBigDog]

Here is the updated recipe from the re-brew show:

SG: 1066
IBU 94.8
SRM 22.5

90 minute boil

90% US 2-row 6.5kg
10% Special B 730g

24g chinook 13%AA @ 85m
24g chinook @ 45m
24g chinook @15m
24g chinook @ 0m

WLP007

Mash at 148F

Notes:
The majority deemed this cloned, but Tasty (the brewer) believes that he could get the recipe closer and would like to brew this again. Jamil believes that the only difference is a slight change in aroma, which he believes is due to pasteurization of the Stone AB.

Does everyone agree that this is damn close? I would like to brew it using the Wyeast 1056 cake I have from another IPA that is about ready to be racked.

 

[CidahMastah]

Does everyone agree that this is damn close? I would like to brew it using the Wyeast 1056 cake I have from another IPA that is about ready to be racked.

see my post #211 - I am about to re-try the CYBI clone I brewed again tonight (decided to give it some more conditioning time and retry). Will post what I think of the recipe later on. That all said - the AHS kit was damn close for sure. It used a different yeast and specialty grain.

 

[phished880]

My wife an I are enjoying pints of this right now watching the red sox. We are doing a tasting with 6 people tomorrow. I will try to post some of the others comments. Real solid beer. I suggest making the second version, the beer tastes great cloned or not.

I will also be bottling about 10 from the keg and adding some bugs and maybe a bit of sugar. That should be interesting 2-6 months later.

 

[KraphtBier]

Im brewing my attempt at an AB clone this afternoon. I've pretty much used the reposted recipe, after adjusting the amount of base malt to get the abv I wanted out of it. I came up with the following:

5 gallon batch

12.0lbs Maris Otter (90.04%)
21.25oz 120L Crystal (9.96%)
1oz Chinook 11%aa FWH
1oz Chinook 11%aa 30 minutes
0.5oz Chinook 11%aa 15 minutes
0.5oz Chinook 11%aa 10 minutes
0.5oz Chinook 11%aa 5 minutes
0.5oz Chinook 11%aa 0 minutes
ph 5.2
Whirlfloc
15g of re-hydrated S-04 (according to the mr. malty calc)

Beersmith tells me 78.7 IBUs, but I'm wondering if that will be enough to get that arrogant flavor? Whatcha think?

 

[CidahMastah]

see my post #211 - I am about to re-try the CYBI clone I brewed again tonight (decided to give it some more conditioning time and retry). Will post what I think of the recipe later on. That all said - the AHS kit was damn close for sure. It used a different yeast and specialty grain.

it is a good beer, but not IMO arrogant cloned - I followed the recipe to a "t".

It is close, but I will be trying to the recipe out with WL051 next time, maybe with 120 as well.

 

[CJPaul]

Hello all, I am looking to brew a Bastard this weekend.
I took the last, closest recipe and put it into the gunky to fit a few of my concerns.

1. Higher OG. I am going for a bill that brings up the OG to 1.072, and with a little help from a WLP007 1500ml starter, a FG in the 1.018 department (though I am OK with a higher attenuation).

2. Brewhuas Efficiency. Grain bills more than 10# get a reduced mash efficiency at my place, so this 15.5# bill will get 70% mash efficiency most likely. I will target 148-149 for 90 min and do a split batch sparge with the first half of the sparge water (added after 1st runnings are drained) used to mash out @ 170.

3. Hops bigger on the last addition. Also, I think I'll wait about 10 min after flameout before running the chiller.

90% 14 # 2-Row
10% 1.5 # Special B (148 L. ?)

1 oz Chinook leaf @ 13.3 AA 90 min
1 oz Chinook leaf @ 13.3 AA 45 min
1 oz Chinook leaf @ 13.3 AA 15 min
2 oz Chinook leaf @ 13.3 AA Flameout

1/2 tsp. WYeast Nutrient @ 10 min
O.G. 1.072
F.G. 1.018
ABV 7.2 %
Mash efficiency 70%
IBUs 98 tinseth
Batch size 5.3 Gal
21 SRM (if Spec. B is about 148L.)


If it doesn't turn out arrogant, then F**K this recipe!

 

[EricCSU]

Hello all, I am looking to brew a Bastard this weekend.
I took the last, closest recipe and put it into the gunky to fit a few of my concerns.

1. Higher OG. I am going for a bill that brings up the OG to 1.072, and with a little help from a WLP007 1500ml starter, a FG in the 1.018 department (though I am OK with a higher attenuation).

2. Brewhuas Efficiency. Grain bills more than 10# get a reduced mash efficiency at my place, so this 15.5# bill will get 70% mash efficiency most likely. I will target 148-149 for 90 min and do a split batch sparge with the first half of the sparge water (added after 1st runnings are drained) used to mash out @ 170.

3. Hops bigger on the last addition. Also, I think I'll wait about 10 min after flameout before running the chiller.

90% 14 # 2-Row
10% 1.5 # Special B (148 L. ?)

1 oz Chinook leaf @ 13.3 AA 90 min
1 oz Chinook leaf @ 13.3 AA 45 min
1 oz Chinook leaf @ 13.3 AA 15 min
2 oz Chinook leaf @ 13.3 AA Flameout

1/2 tsp. WYeast Nutrient @ 10 min
O.G. 1.072
F.G. 1.018
ABV 7.2 %
Mash efficiency 70%
IBUs 98 tinseth
Batch size 5.3 Gal
21 SRM (if Spec. B is about 148L.)

If it doesn't turn out arrogant, then F**K this recipe!

I bet you will get lower than 1018. I had a batch go from 1067 to 1010 with 007 at 148F.

Eric

 

[CJPaul]

Thanks Eric. I guess we'll have to wait and see. I went ahead and brewed this today. Got a slightly better mash efficiency, but had too much wort in the kettle for a while, so my boil was a bit weak to avoid a boil over. Overall, still got an OG of 1072 @ 5.5 gal. and pitched an 1600 ml starter, so that should knock the OG down just a bit. I'd be really happy to get an 85% attenuation on just about any other hoppy big beer, just not this one , it'd be like 8.1% :cross:. If the attenuation stays lower, I might just have a contender! I'll let y'all know on down the line.

 

[hops2it]

Accidentally double posted. Edited version below.

 

[hops2it]

Here is the updated recipe from the re-brew show:

SG: 1066
IBU 94.8
SRM 22.5

90 minute boil

90% US 2-row 6.5kg
10% Special B 730g

24g chinook 13%AA @ 85m
24g chinook @ 45m
24g chinook @15m
24g chinook @ 0m

WLP007

Mash at 148F

Hey guys, noob here. Does anybody know how to tweak the above recipe to DME and a full boil (5 gallon batch)? I'd like to give this a shot in my newly acquired brew kettle tomorrow.

It appears the OP used 6 gallons post-boil, 7.27 gallons preboil. I'm not quite sure how that all relates. Sorry if this is a dumb question.

 

[EricCSU]

Hey guys, noob here. Does anybody know how to tweak the above recipe to DME and a full boil (5 gallon batch)? I'd like to give this a shot in my newly acquired brew kettle tomorrow.

It appears the OP used 6 gallons post-boil, 7.27 gallons preboil. I'm not quite sure how that all relates. Sorry if this is a dumb question.

For converting a batch, check out the link in my signature.

The recipe assumes you start boiling with 7.27 gallons and finish with 6 gallons. This leaves 5.5 gallons in the fermenter due to cold break and cooling loss. And that puts 5 gallons in the keg or bottling bucket due to trub or dry hops.

Eric

 

[hops2it]

For converting a batch, check out the link in my signature.

The recipe assumes you start boiling with 7.27 gallons and finish with 6 gallons. This leaves 5.5 gallons in the fermenter due to cold break and cooling loss. And that puts 5 gallons in the keg or bottling bucket due to trub or dry hops.

Eric

Thanks Eric.

I used the link in your sig last night and I calcualated 8.4 lb DME which seemed a little high? But using Brewtarget, it suggested in my situation, a 5 gallon batch would mean starting with 5.5 gallons water. I then adjusted the Special B until I got a 90/10 blend like you noted.

For the hops, I did a ratio between your boil size and mine and came up with 0.7 oz hops on all accounts.

All this ended up with the following projections:
OG 1.076
FG 1.019
63 IBU
20 SRM (Morey, whatever that means)
ABV 7.4%

I can't figure out how to adjust the boil time from 1 to 1.5 hrs, not sure if that would change the above stats anyway. Is it predicting a smaller water addition in my case due to all the DME I'm adding? I have noticed it increases the kettle volume significantly. I'm trying here but just not sure I'm heading down the right path.

 

[EricCSU]

My text is bold

Thanks Eric.

I used the link in your sig last night and I calcualated 8.4 lb DME which seemed a little high? But using Brewtarget, it suggested in my situation, a 5 gallon batch would mean starting with 5.5 gallons water. I then adjusted the Special B until I got a 90/10 blend like you noted.

If you start with 5.5 gallons, it will boil down...how much depends on your evaporation rate. A typical evaporation rate will boil down to around 4.5 gallons. After cold break, that will give you about 4 gallons in the carboy. After trub, you will have about 3.5 gallons. Unless you top up in the carboy. What is your evaporation rate?

I'm not familiar with brewtarget, but if you use 90% DME and 10% special B steep and target the OG in the recipe, it is correct.

For the hops, I did a ratio between your boil size and mine and came up with 0.7 oz hops on all accounts.

I would recommend using a brewing software to ensure that you are getting the same IBUs. Make sure to use the Tinseth formula for bittering (there are several formulas for bittering, but CYBI uses Tinseth).

All this ended up with the following projections:
OG 1.076
FG 1.019
63 IBU
20 SRM (Morey, whatever that means) A formula which approximates color
ABV 7.4%

I can't figure out how to adjust the boil time from 1 to 1.5 hrs, not sure if that would change the above stats anyway.

You don't need to boil for 90 minutes for extract anyway. One hour is fine.

Is it predicting a smaller water addition in my case due to all the DME I'm adding? I have noticed it increases the kettle volume significantly. I'm trying here but just not sure I'm heading down the right path.

I don't understand what you are asking here, sorry

 

[hops2it]

Thanks for the clarification. I don't yet know what my evaporation rate will be. I just purchased a 11 gallon Bayou pot so this will be my first full boil, the first use of the pot and the first use of my new burner. I may just have to give it a shot and hope for the best. Im not really sure how accurate the Brewtarget software is, perhaps I'll try another and compare the data.

 

[SourHopHead]

11 Gallon batch rebrew this week. Switching from Special B to C120 but might do a combo of both. Bumped up the hops a lot. Pitch one with WLP007 and the other with S-04. If this turns out close I will oak 1 batch.

Eff. 71%
SG: 16.5
IBU's: 172
SRM: 17.7


Amount Item Type % or IBU
11.97 kg Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 90.00 %
1.33 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 10.00 %
113.40 gm Chinook [10.00 %] (90 min) Hops 79.5 IBU
113.40 gm Chinook [10.00 %] (45 min) Hops 71.3 IBU
113.40 gm Chinook [10.00 %] (15 min) Hops 21.2 IBU
113.40 gm Chinook [10.00 %] (0 min) Hops -
2.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
4.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
22.00 gm Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007) [Starter 35 ml] Yeast-Ale
1 Pkgs SafAle English Ale (DCL Yeast #S-04) Yeast-Ale

 

[No_Party]

Looks awesome! Update with some tasting notes!

I cracked one open last night and I must say it is a damn fine beer. I think adding the de-bittered black malt was overkill on the color as it is black as sat cloth. The taste and bitterness is right on though. I could not be happier with how it has turned out.

 

[CidahMastah]

see my post #211 - I am about to re-try the CYBI clone I brewed again tonight (decided to give it some more conditioning time and retry). Will post what I think of the recipe later on. That all said - the AHS kit was damn close for sure. It used a different yeast and specialty grain.

Just to follow up on this I ended up holding off and doing a blind taste test with 4 versions of arrogant. one was the Stone's Arrogant Bastard (A), one was the CYBI recipe (B), one was the AHS extract recipe (C) and one was another popular recipe that uses biscuit malt, etc D.

I had 6 people, each got 4 cups to taste in a blind taste test (only I knew which was which). They ranked in this order:

1. B - CYBI recipe (5/6 chose this for winner)
2. A - Stone's Arrogant B (5/6 chose this for second place)
3. C - Extract AHS version (1/6 chose this for winner)
4. D - Other popular recipe (people thought this was the weakest recipe, tasted like a totally different brew)

Some tasting notes were that, several people liked the extract one, but thought it had a different bright flavor to it (extract twang was evident head to head with all grain versions). People also said B and A were very close, but B had some more complexity and freshness to it that made it a nose ahead of A.

Just thought I would pass this along.

 

[SourHopHead]

11 Gallon batch rebrew this week. Switching from Special B to C120 but might do a combo of both. Bumped up the hops a lot. Pitch one with WLP007 and the other with S-04. If this turns out close I will oak 1 batch.

Eff. 71%
SG: 16.5
IBU's: 172
SRM: 17.7

Amount Item Type % or IBU
11.97 kg Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 90.00 %
1.33 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 10.00 %
113.40 gm Chinook [10.00 %] (90 min) Hops 79.5 IBU
113.40 gm Chinook [10.00 %] (45 min) Hops 71.3 IBU
113.40 gm Chinook [10.00 %] (15 min) Hops 21.2 IBU
113.40 gm Chinook [10.00 %] (0 min) Hops -
2.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
4.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
22.00 gm Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007) [Starter 35 ml] Yeast-Ale
1 Pkgs SafAle English Ale (DCL Yeast #S-04) Yeast-Ale

One finished at 4P and the other 4.75P. Huge hop presence and nice balance. One cleared well but the other is cloudy. I forgot which got which yeast. I think the 007 dried it out nicely. Still need a side by side comparison. Going to toss in 2oz of oak cubes in one for about 3 weeks.

S-04 sweet aroma, cloudy, kinda sweet taste. Hop bitterness ok flavor seems off due to the malt sweetness.

 

[phished880]

I heard tasty say from this past session they were gonna have mitch steele do an analysis of version 3 at nhc. That should be very interesting.

 

[bigbeergeek]

I brewed the 2nd colne recipe, but added 14% special B and all my hop additions were 1oz apiece with 13%AA chinook hops. Color: spot on. Bitterness: spot on. Aroma: spot on. MY brew club buddies and I couldn't split hairs enough to come up with a meaningful difference between the two beers, aside from a VERY slight clarity difference (to reiterate, splitting hairs). That's my go-to formula for all my re-brews, including an upcoming oaked version this fall...

 

[SourHopHead]

Oak is a winner! Zymurgy has a clone recipe in the latest issue with both c120 and special B.

 

[dunnright00]

I am wondering how they came up with the second recipe? I am wondering if C150 might be the lone dark crystal as opposed to special B? I know stone uses C150.....I am not sayin...but I am just sayin.

regardless, I am brewing this new one up and convention be damned, I am dry hopping with centennial and columbus. Aromatic Bastard!

So, I've been holding off from this for a while but after listening to the latest CYBI from NHC w/Mitch Steele, I thought I'd chime in.
Mainly because they all said Tasty's latest brew with the ADDITION of C120 was NOT cloned.

Couple of months ago, I did the Stone tour with a group of friends that don't know much about beer and brewing. For the most part I stood back and just took it in. I wasn't the "Oh, so what's your O.G. on this recipe? What kind of hop schedule do you use for xxx..."

At one point he mentions how Arrogant Bastard is a secret recipe, etc. etc.
Then while he's showing us the grain mill and explaining how it works, he mentions in passing how they are getting ready to crush the grain for AB.
There's a big pallet next to the mill and I grabbed a pic.

A bit later, I sneeked a close up...

Looking at Great Western Malting's website I see they carry a C15 but it seems pretty light.

You think this was just PART of the grain bill or was the guy trying to throw us off the scent?

 

[bigbeergeek]

It could be part of the grainbill, but it can't be a major player in that brew. Who knows: the guy running the tour might not know what the heck's going on with respect to the brewing sched. that day. I brewed a slightly modified version of the 2nd recipe (14% special B, the rest 2 row) and it was spot on. I mean spot on, color, aroma, flavor, the whole nine. If a little C15 would make it "closer" to the real deal, I could care less personally. I think I absolutely nailed it -- C15 would just disappear in a recipe that bold, malty, and bitter. My .02.

 

[freshhoarse]

Well, brewed my version today... used 13.5# US 2-row and 1.5# C-120. 148* mash for 60 min. 90 min boil with Chinook hops @ 85, 45, 15, and flameout (1oz each). Pitched WLP007. OG 1.070.
...let ya know in 6wks or so...

 

[JimTheHick]

It could be part of the grainbill, but it can't be a major player in that brew. Who knows: the guy running the tour might not know what the heck's going on with respect to the brewing sched. that day. I brewed a slightly modified version of the 2nd recipe (14% special B, the rest 2 row) and it was spot on. I mean spot on, color, aroma, flavor, the whole nine. If a little C15 would make it "closer" to the real deal, I could care less personally. I think I absolutely nailed it -- C15 would just disappear in a recipe that bold, malty, and bitter. My .02.

From listening to the last brewstrong the guy from stone kept saying that the clone brew was just missing a hint of sweetness. That could be the C15. And if brewing it originally was a mistake, you could easily swap special B (C150) with C15. 'Elementary my dear Watson'

 

[bigbeergeek]

From listening to the last brewstrong the guy from stone kept saying that the clone brew was just missing a hint of sweetness. That could be the C15. And if brewing it originally was a mistake, you could easily swap special B (C150) with C15. 'Elementary my dear Watson'

You misheard what he said. He said there was a sweetness present in the homebrew that is not in the commercial beer -- they all discussed how Tasty's beer was (uncharacteristically) slightly under-attenuated.

C15 has no logical place in an Arrogant Bastard Ale recipe. It does not contribute the dark, raisiny fruit flavors present in ABA. C15 is lightly sweet like watered down honey.

I brewed my take on their clone with 14% Special B, the rest 2 row, and color/aroma/taste were on the nose. Period. For my future brews, I'm not changing a thing.