Can you Brew It recipe for Stone Arrogant Bastard

Williams 728
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here is my report for my 3rd version of ab. I'm still in the c150 club. A couple changes to my process. I am now using a pump to whirlpool and decrease my cooling times quite a bit from just stirring with an immersion chiller. I am kegging now also. I really like chasing this recipe.

5.5 gal 75% eff
13# 10 oz 2 row
1#4.1 oz c150
6.7 oz c75
4.2 oz chocolate malt 350 srm
2.31 oz chinook 90 min
1.06 oz chinook 13 min
.53 oz chinook 5 min
1.57 oz chinook 0-whirlpool
wlp007
24.4 srm 121 ibu 1.076 sg

tasting and pics to follow shortly.
time to drink side by side.:tank:
see my previous recipes and results in this thread. Main changes from last time are, I raised hops and subbed chocolate malt for some c150 keeping the same srm I had before.
20150528_220431_zps1xnfdtii.jpg

overall this one is extremely close. I'm no longer splitting logs I'm splitting hairs.
the color is so darn close. mine slightly darker,not even a full srm in my opinion. but I got the red color I was looking for with the chocolate.
Hops are very very close. Ab edges mine out on bitterness. Both have that nice resiny lingering finish. Stones ab hop finish lasts a little longer than mine. The hops are very close.
ahh the malts... malt flavor is very close. The only difference I can taste is mine has a light sweetness that ab does not. i don't know why I left the c75 in the recipe. I'm sure that is part of it.

I will make some small changes for next time. I'll leave out the c75 and pull a bit of c150 to drop one srm point. I'll make my 90 min 2.5oz i will move my hops around to get more inline with what stone does. combine both the 15 min and 5 min addition and make them both 5 min. for 1.6oz
Last thing I will do is add some more gypsum. to highlight the hops more than I have previously.

mine on the left
 
Dilemma on hand. Ready to brew 6 gal tomorrow, but have one sachet of s-04 or 2 of us-05. What do i go with?
 
ol-hazza said:
Dilemma on hand. Ready to brew 6 gal tomorrow, but have one sachet of s-04 or 2 of us-05. What do i go with?
Click to expand...

S-04, no doubt, you want the English Ale characteristics. It's the dry equivalent to WY1098 and WLP007.

Rehydrate according to the Safale instructions and pitch after thorough aeration/oxygenation.
 
I'm in general agreement with redskinfan.

I have made good beers with s04, but have also had misfortune of under attenuation which I blame entirely on that strain. I will never willingly use it again.

TD
 
TrickyDick said:
I'm in general agreement with redskinfan.

I have made good beers with s04, but have also had misfortune of under attenuation which I blame entirely on that strain. I will never willingly use it again.

TD
Click to expand...

It's important to keep the ferm temp constant with S-04 and raise it slowly toward the end so it can finish out. A drop of 2-3°F can lure it into dormancy. It takes a handsome prince to wake her up.

I had an old ale that got stuck at 1.028 most likely because of that slight drop overnight.

S-04 is the Dry Whitbread strain which allegedly is Stone's house yeast.

But if you like Chico, go with it.
 
Its redskins recipe which im bastardising (i have a patriotic need to always use some new zealand hops) so will go with his advice. Have full temp control so thats not an issue. With the 04/05 mix what temp would you ferment at?


Cheers for the advice guys
 
Start at 68. Keep there for 2 days, then raise to 72 for 2 days. Raise to 75 for 2 days. Check gravity for consistent readings across days after that.

Also, I would add about Gypsum to get to 350-400 ppm.
 
Here's my effort with caraaroma and a touch of carapils. Mostly care of redskins recipe. Despite my crap photo main difference between the two colour wise is filtering. Stones is much clearer. Malt profile is bang on in my limited Australian experience of this beer. Hops are close but mine is more floral/piney and a tad less bitter but very very close. I'm super happy with this beer and will be Brewing it again regularly. I will definitely gelatine the beer next time to clear it and maybe shift some of the late hops back to early additions.

IMAG1301.jpg
 
Isonad said:
Here's my effort with caraaroma and a touch of carapils. Mostly care of redskins recipe. Despite my crap photo main difference between the two colour wise is filtering. Stones is much clearer. Malt profile is bang on in my limited Australian experience of this beer. Hops are close but mine is more floral/piney and a tad less bitter but very very close. I'm super happy with this beer and will be Brewing it again regularly. I will definitely gelatine the beer next time to clear it and maybe shift some of the late hops back to early additions.
Click to expand...

Mind sharing your exact recipe? It will only help the group in their effort!

Glad I was able to help further this adventure along with the choice of CaraAroma, but there have been others who have contributed just as much to this.

I think for my next attempt I am going to use a Hop Extract addition and the rest of the hops in the hopstand.
 
I did some hopshot extract in mine plus the original hops for bitterness. Forgot to mention that. I think the bitterness and hop profile was spot on. Mine was better clarity wise, and color as close as I could've hoped. I think the next time - omit the chocolate malt which was suggested when I paid a visit to a certain place in Escondido a while back. I think was slightly out of place. At any rate, I think that if you gave the beer to a AB regular drinking person, that they'd be very hard pressed to pick the real AB from my second shot at this using CaraAroma, CaraPils and Chocolate for specialty malt. I'd eliminate the Chocolate next time. I still have another keg of this too! It probably faded in the hop department a bit, but life's been busy...

Personally, I think this beer is now cloned officially.

TD
 
No worries. Here's the recipe posted at #103.

21litres
6kg 2-row - 91%
.5kg caraaroma 7.5%
.1kg carapils 1.5%

65c mash -60 mins
Chinook at
35g - 60min
30g -15 min
35g- 10min
40g -5 min
60g -flameout

Wlp007 -4l starter.

I also added some gypsum to the mash.
 
Great ongoing thread here, started reading at page 80 or so. I am relatively new to brewing but thought I would chime in. Brewed this 2 weeks back in my BIAB setup. I have been lacking hop flavour in my recent brews so I moved the hops to late additions and increased them. Similar to Isonad. I also predict that it would be closer to original if I increase the bittering addition instead.

Here in Norway I can’t get my hands on AB, but had some a couple months back when I was home so I will need to do my best memory comparison when complete. My fermentation was a bit on the cold side 64-65 deg. and stalled out at 1.019 so it won’t be dry enough, but I will fix that next time around. Either way, the taste on the gravity reading was good.

16L batch.
4.6 kg 2 row
0.5 kg Caraaroma
0.1 kg Carapils
20g chinook 90 min
33g chinook 15 min
35g chinook 5min
Wlp007
 
So I am sipping on a glass from a DEC 14 10 gallon batch. I have a sixer of Bourbon Barrel Aged in the fridge. This is REALLLLLLLY close to the BBA AB! I mean so close I can barely detect differences between them (mainly a slight trace of barrel). It is still quite bitter, aroma has faded somewhat, but as someone said above close enough that it is cloned! I am a regular AB brewer and drinker...this is so close, I can barely detect differences and I am not sure which I like best...okay I love them both!! Brew this recipe and you will love it. It is a fantastic example of hop forward, strong ale. Stone, you did good!

I was just in SD for two weeks and had my share of Stone beers, among the MANY other fantastic SD breweries. If you get a chance to go there, do it!! You can literally drive to 100 breweries in a day, as long as you don't stop and drink beer. Where is the fun in that?

Cheers!
 
Sorry guys. Normally I would take the time to read through a thread to get the info needed, but at 106 pages... ?

Can someone point me to the recipe that they think is cloned?

Thanks.
 
jmtwo said:
Sorry guys. Normally I would take the time to read through a thread to get the info needed, but at 106 pages... ?

Can someone point me to the recipe that they think is cloned?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

If you set your preferences to 40 messages per page, like I do, it's only 27 pages. ;)

Seriously, it's way less browsing that way.

Read backwards from the last and you'll see the recent efforts and comments on those. I've brewed reddskinnfan's original recipe, the first one that uses Cararoma, twice. Although a decent cloning effort, not quite there on my system, as it lacked in bitterness, hop aroma and hop flavor. There is more to brewing clones than a recipe, process plays a big role too.

He posted a modified recipe on post 1004.
 
IslandLizard said:
If you set your preferences to 40 messages per page, like I do, it's only 27 pages. ;)

Seriously, it's way less browsing that way.

Read backwards from the last and you'll see the recent efforts and comments on those. I've brewed reddskinnfan's original recipe, the first one that uses Cararoma, twice. Although a decent cloning effort, not quite there on my system, as it lacked in bitterness, hop aroma and hop flavor. There is more to brewing clones than a recipe, process plays a big role too.

He posted a modified recipe on post 1004.
Click to expand...

I agree about the bitterness.

my grain bill was as follows, but I think can eliminate the chocolate and just go with CaraAroma and a pinch of carapils. This was all based on redskin's recipe, I think the first to use caraaroma, which is most definitely THE specialty malt in AB.

91.8% 2 Row
6.2% CaraAroma
1.3% CaraPils
0.7% Chocolate 475º

Color is the hardest part to nail. I dialed my brewing software in to 18.7 SRM by tweaking the % of CaraAroma and Chocolate. I suggest you do the same for you batch size using software. Dump the chocolate and bump the caraaroma as appropriate.

For hops, its easy. You cannot over hop this beer I tried and it came out I think fairly spot on if you read my side by side tasting with photos from my last effort. I used only a 60 minute boil for 10 gallons. I'd halve those additions for a 5 gallon batch down to 1oz each.

2 oz additions: FWH/60/45/30/20/15/10/5/0.
also I added a full syringe of HopShot at 60 minutes once boiling.
also at flame out I also added about 6 oz of homegrown Chinook hops from my garden (they were dried and frozen).

If you wanted to do a 90 minute boil, I'd keep the same and just add more hops up-stream with extra additions each 15 minutes: 90 & 75 min.

Be sure to add enough sulfate and have proper water chemistry for this beer.

TD
 
Great thread, thanks to everyone who contributed. It's been a few months since I had an AB (bottled), and a few years before that I had lots of it on draft at the now defunct Bailey's in Germantown MD (my former county of residence). I first tried bottled AB about 12 or 13 years ago. Now, my memory could be failing me but I don't remember previous samples of AB having as much of a roasty flavor as the most recent one. Maybe I'm imagining things, or maybe my palate changed, but something seems a little different.
 
Thanks to all of you who contributed here. I brewed Bastard saiSon, a recipe inspired by the collective effort, and fermented it at 100F with WY3724. Delicious.
 
Plainer said:
Great ongoing thread here, started reading at page 80 or so. I am relatively new to brewing but thought I would chime in. Brewed this 2 weeks back in my BIAB setup. I have been lacking hop flavour in my recent brews so I moved the hops to late additions and increased them. Similar to Isonad. I also predict that it would be closer to original if I increase the bittering addition instead.

Here in Norway I can’t get my hands on AB, but had some a couple months back when I was home so I will need to do my best memory comparison when complete. My fermentation was a bit on the cold side 64-65 deg. and stalled out at 1.019 so it won’t be dry enough, but I will fix that next time around. Either way, the taste on the gravity reading was good.

16L batch.
4.6 kg 2 row
0.5 kg Caraaroma
0.1 kg Carapils
20g chinook 90 min
33g chinook 15 min
35g chinook 5min
Wlp007
Click to expand...

Update on mine. It has become a contaminated brew but only mildly. Before the off flavor was noticeable it was a great tasting beer, but a bit heavy in body compared to the real thing and I would say its important to hit your gravity to make this as drinkable as the real thing. Also as the key contributors have said, you can go heavy on the bittering hops, I would say that I did not have enough bittering in my recipe.

On a side note, with the contamination in mine as the off flavor worsens its drinkability is declining so I have taken to watering it down. It may be a crime to the clone, but this beer has so much bittering and body that even at a 50/50 mix it becomes a nice dark mild type beer with a hoppy aftertaste for a warm afternoon (with an off twist). Heck of a lot better than dumping it.
 
Just brewed the 845 recipe....as a mini mash, partial boil....

Mashed at 149/150 for just under 1 hour. Topped up with 2 gallons of water. Still my OG was high. Brought it down to 1.077.

Rehydrated 2 packets of S-04. Beer took off like a rocket. Looks and smells amazing! I am going to be oaking this one as oaked AB is my favorite of all the bastard variants.

I'll report back how close this is.
 
Looking for something to brew with WLP644, Brett-Trois (and for those who don't know, it is not a Brett strain, so lets not have the discussion about Brett in the beer). I was wondering how the basic AB recipe would go with that yeast.

Yes, I realize it is not going to be AB, and will be a lot fruitier, but wanted some input from AB aficionados as to whether they think this has the potential to be an interesting experiment, or a disaster.

90% Pale Malt
10% Cara Aroma
Chinook Hops
WLP644 (Brett Trois)
 
Calder said:
Looking for something to brew with WLP644, Brett-Trois (and for those who don't know, it is not a Brett strain, so lets not have the discussion about Brett in the beer). I was wondering how the basic AB recipe would go with that yeast.

Yes, I realize it is not going to be AB, and will be a lot fruitier, but wanted some input from AB aficionados as to whether they think this has the potential to be an interesting experiment, or a disaster.

90% Pale Malt
10% Cara Aroma
Chinook Hops
WLP644 (Brett Trois)
Click to expand...

You can do it!
 
Calder said:
Looking for something to brew with WLP644, Brett-Trois (and for those who don't know, it is not a Brett strain, so lets not have the discussion about Brett in the beer). I was wondering how the basic AB recipe would go with that yeast.

Yes, I realize it is not going to be AB, and will be a lot fruitier, but wanted some input from AB aficionados as to whether they think this has the potential to be an interesting experiment, or a disaster.

90% Pale Malt
10% Cara Aroma
Chinook Hops
WLP644 (Brett Trois)
Click to expand...

As the person who made it with Dupont yeast, I support the experimentation. Although it does not necessarily make for better beer, the ability to pair virtually any adjective with "bastard" makes this an excellent recipe to play with.
 
So just to update....

The beer finished around 1.013 so its about 8.5 %. A bit bigger than AB. Color is very close as is the bitterness. Very fruity flavor. My one issue was using Safale 04. If I brew this again I will pick any yeast except S-04. Ferm temp got a little warm and the yeast threw off an almost tangy flavor. Ugh. Seriously, don't use Safale 04!

2 days into the week long oak treatment (2 oz med oak chips), it seems like the beer is "turning the corner." The oak is amplifying the perception of bitterness and covering that tang. Also, just decided to add a little dry hop for a few days to beef up the aroma. I think this is going to be delicious.
 
TriggerFingers said:
So just to update....

The beer finished around 1.013 so its about 8.5 %. A bit bigger than AB. Color is very close as is the bitterness. Very fruity flavor. My one issue was using Safale 04. If I brew this again I will pick any yeast except S-04. Ferm temp got a little warm and the yeast threw off an almost tangy flavor. Ugh. Seriously, don't use Safale 04!

2 days into the week long oak treatment (2 oz med oak chips), it seems like the beer is "turning the corner." The oak is amplifying the perception of bitterness and covering that tang. Also, just decided to add a little dry hop for a few days to beef up the aroma. I think this is going to be delicious.
Click to expand...

what was your ferm temp on this yeast?
 
Ambient air was 70F. I know the internal temp can be 8-10 degrees higher than ambient. It felt slightly warm to the touch during fermentation. Have never had any issues with Nottingham or Safale 05...ever. But never again with S-04. Just read up on the S-04 tang. It would make a great cider.
 
TriggerFingers said:
Ambient air was 70F. I know the internal temp can be 8-10 degrees higher than ambient. It felt slightly warm to the touch during fermentation. Have never had any issues with Nottingham or Safale 05...ever. But never again with S-04. Just read up on the S-04 tang. It would make a great cider.
Click to expand...

Thers your problem, if you use this yeast, a nice low temp is best.
70F Ambient is too high, meaning you temp is a few degrees warmer, which will throw off all sorts of weird esters and flavours. which is what your talking about.
If you sit at 63/64 you'll get some esters, but it'll be restrained.
IMO.
Plus the possible temp swings that can occur when fermenting at ambient.
 
crusader1612 said:
Thers your problem, if you use this yeast, a nice low temp is best.
70F Ambient is too high, meaning you temp is a few degrees warmer, which will throw off all sorts of weird esters and flavours. which is what your talking about.
If you sit at 63/64 you'll get some esters, but it'll be restrained.
IMO.
Plus the possible temp swings that can occur when fermenting at ambient.
Click to expand...

Which is why I said, if you can't keep temps in check, go with another yeast. I'd rather have neutral yeast character than unwanted esters.
 
So bottled this....and I have to say after 1 week... Its tasty. My wife said "tastes like a brown IPA." I can pick a roasty, almost coffee note from it. Cidery note from the yeast is very muted. This is drinking rather well so young.

I'd say its fairly close to AB. Color looks spot on. I oaked mine, but am not really getting it.

So I would say in the future...2 oz oak chips for at least 10 days (I did 7 this time). Also, calculate maybe a touch more gypsum next time around. With the hop shot my calculated ibu's were around 105. It feels right, but not enough bite in front palate.
 

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