Can you Brew It recipe for Deschutes Black Butte Porter

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EricCSU

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All recipes are 6 gallons post-boil (6 gallons post boil > 5.5 gallons in the fermenter > 5 gallons in bottling bucket/keg), 70% efficiency, Morey for color, 15% evaporation, Rager IBU, and most hops are in grams not ounces. Most, if not all recipes are primary only (no secondary).

If you have brewed this, please reply with your results and discussion.

OG 1058
FG 1012
37 IBUs
27.6 SRM

WLP002

90 minute boil [Tasty always does a 90 minute boil, he says it works better for his system]

10.58 lbs pale malt
1.39 lbs wheat malt
0.7 lbs crystal 80
0.42 lbs american chocolate 400l
0.42 lbs english chocolate malt 300-350l
0.42 lbs carapils

0.60 oz galena at 13%AA at 90min (can use nugget too)
0.25 oz cascade at 5.75%AA at 15min
0.25 oz mt. hood at 5.2%AA at 5min (can use tettnanger too)

Increased Ca to 129ppm

Fermented at 64F

Mashed at 130F for 10 minutes
Then 156F for 60 minutes
Then 168F for 10 minutes
Sparged at 170F for 45 minutes
 

suhornet84

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I brewed this last month but I had to make a few changes to the recipe because my LHBS did not have C*80 or British Chocolate. I think it turned out great, Black Butte is by far my favorite porter and I wanted to have it on tap since I can't get it in VA. I wonder how much difference the British chocolate would have made... I'll post a side by side and more comparisons soon with one of the BBs I had my brother mail me :tank:

Original Gravity: 1.060 (1.048 - 1.065)
Terminal Gravity: 1.015 (1.012 - 1.016)
Color: 23.06 (22.0 - 35.0)
Alcohol: 5.86% (4.8% - 6.5%)
Bitterness: 36.5 (25.0 - 50.0)

Ingredients:
8.46 lb 2-Row Brewers Malt
1.11 lb White Wheat Malt
0.68 lb Chocolate Malt
0.50 lb American Caramel 60°L
0.30 lb American Caramel 120°L
0.34 lb Cara-Pils® Malt
.6 oz Galena (13.0%) - added during boil, boiled 90 min
.4 oz Cascade (5.5%) - added during boil, boiled 30 min
.4 oz Tettnanger (4.5%) - added during boil, boiled 5 min
 

bierhaus15

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I brewed this recipe a while ago and was pretty happy with the results. I have had the real stuff before and its pretty darn similar. not my favorite porter by any means, but if you really want black butte, then the original posted recipe is gold.
 

kedash

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Hi, I am getting ready to brew this and I just listened to part of the Podcast again. Tasty states the Cascade addition is at 30 minutes and you have it at 15 minutes on the recipe listed here.

I was curious if there was a reason you put it at 15 min. Is that what the brewer stated and Tasty stated it wrong?

Anyway, no biggy, but thought you might want to edit the recipe here if it is incorrect.

Thanks!
 
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EricCSU

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Hi, I am getting ready to brew this and I just listened to part of the Podcast again. Tasty states the Cascade addition is at 30 minutes and you have it at 15 minutes on the recipe listed here.

I was curious if there was a reason you put it at 15 min. Is that what the brewer stated and Tasty stated it wrong?

Anyway, no biggy, but thought you might want to edit the recipe here if it is incorrect.

Thanks!
You are correct, it is 30 minutes.

Thanks for the correction.

I wish I could edit it, but the forum administrator does not allowed old posts to be edited. That feature would be really useful, but they refuse to allow it.

Eric
 

kedash

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Thanks for the update. I see an edit button on my post and have edited posts of mine before. I wonder why you can't? I just let my subscription run out, but I plan on renewing it this weekend. I wonder if it is a paid subscription thing? With all the work here, I will donate to your subscription if you don't already have one and I bet some other folks would too. More later.


You are correct, it is 30 minutes.

Thanks for the correction.

I wish I could edit it, but the forum administrator does not allowed old posts to be edited. That feature would be really useful, but they refuse to allow it.

Eric
 

kedash

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The other thing that is weird about this recipe is it states that the OG is 1.058 and the FG is 1.012. That would be an apparent attenuation of 78.4%

78.4% is WELL OVER the 70% max. stated by White Labs on their website for WLP002. Does the fact that I am making a starter matter? Am I missing something?

Thanks in advance to anyone who can answer this question for me.
 
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EricCSU

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The other thing that is weird about this recipe is it states that the OG is 1.058 and the FG is 1.012. That would be an apparent attenuation of 78.4%

78.4% is WELL OVER the 70% max. stated by White Labs on their website for WLP002. Does the fact that I am making a starter matter? Am I missing something?

Thanks in advance to anyone who can answer this question for me.
Take a look at posts you have made months ago. You probably can't edit them. There is a time limit (not sure what it is) to editing.

As far as attenuation, I wouldn't worry about the numbers as much as the flavor. And the White Labs info are just guidelines. I used 007 to get a batch from 1067 to 1010, and it had 4% carapils and 4% C-75.

Eric

Eric
 

kedash

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I recently brewed this. I would say that it is "spot on!"

Tonight, several of us compared it side by side to the real McCoy. One of the people doing the comparison is about to be BJCP certified and won our club's homebrew competition for 2009.

Anyway, he originally guessed that our beer was the real Black Butte Porter.

After a while, he thought this recipe had a little more coffee flavor and the store bought BB Porter had more chocolate flavor.

Either way, I'm posting this to say that this is a very accurate clone recipe and the color is spot on.

You won't be disappointed if you brew this.
 

bolts

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I've brewed this recipe twice now (tweak it the second time). We've also done triangle tastings and our version of it is not the same. We got more "english fruity" esters and less roasty notes in both the aroma and the taste. That said, the latest batch won best-of-show out of ~30 brews. It's a very nice beer.

I would be curious why we don't get the same roast notes from our brew vs the real thing. We've used both US and UK chocolate malts both times -- the second batch we bumped it up a touch.

http://hopville.com/recipe/331265/brown-porter-recipes/porter-2010-09-09-version
http://hopville.com/recipe/138063/robust-porter-recipes/porter
 

BSBrewer83

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I've brewed this recipe twice now (tweak it the second time). We've also done triangle tastings and our version of it is not the same. We got more "english fruity" esters and less roasty notes in both the aroma and the taste. That said, the latest batch won best-of-show out of ~30 brews. It's a very nice beer.

I would be curious why we don't get the same roast notes from our brew vs the real thing. We've used both US and UK chocolate malts both times -- the second batch we bumped it up a touch.

http://hopville.com/recipe/331265/brown-porter-recipes/porter-2010-09-09-version
http://hopville.com/recipe/138063/robust-porter-recipes/porter


I just recently had a similar issue with this clone. My brew had more of a "creamier" taste to it. The commercial version was a "crisper" taste. I am thinking that using WLP007 Dry English Ale yeast would be closer.
 
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EricCSU

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I just recently had a similar issue with this clone. My brew had more of a "creamier" taste to it. The commercial version was a "crisper" taste. I am thinking that using WLP007 Dry English Ale yeast would be closer.
Have you tried altering the carbonation levels?

Eric
 

BSBrewer83

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Have you tried altering the carbonation levels?

Eric
I didnt try and unfortunately i had a party and killed the keg. I think it was around 12psi. Would increasing the carb level have that much of an effect? It was about 40f.
 
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EricCSU

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I didnt try and unfortunately i had a party and killed the keg. I think it was around 12psi. Would increasing the carb level have that much of an effect? It was about 40f.
Carbonation can play a significant role in mouthfeel. I am not saying that was your issue, but it would be an easy way to tweak it.

According to this table, your carbonation level is about 2.4 volumes, which should be all right, but I would still play with it a little. Taste it, increase one psi, wait a day, then try it again.

Eric
 

BSBrewer83

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Carbonation can play a significant role in mouthfeel. I am not saying that was your issue, but it would be an easy way to tweak it.

According to this table, your carbonation level is about 2.4 volumes, which should be all right, but I would still play with it a little. Taste it, increase one psi, wait a day, then try it again.

Eric
Thanks for the advice! On my next keg I will play with it a bit.
 

bolts

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Have you tried altering the carbonation levels?

Eric
Great advice. I too will give this a try on some remaining bottles and future batches.

Is there any data to support losing toasty notes in the aroma based on fermentation method? I would swear there is a touch of black patent in the real thing. I'm going to try fermenting even lower next time if WLP002 will let me. I'm taking the brewery tour tomorrow (every time I go to bend). I'll see if they can shed light on it.
 

ChiechiBrouw

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I was in the US last month and had the opportunity to stop by the Deschutes brewpub in Portland, where they had a cask porter on tap that was very similar to Black Butte, but with a lovely dried-fruit character and a very full body. The head brewer said he used Ringwood Ale yeast, so I thought it would be fun to give it a try myself.

Since I have only limited access to American ingredients, I brewed this using Marris Otter for the base malt, English chocolate and English light chocolate for the chocolate malts, English wheat malt, and Belgian cara 120 EBC instead of Crystal 80. And, of course, Ringwood Ale yeast. Everything else was to spec (including the protein rest), except I overshot the OG a touch. FG was 1.018.

I let it sit in the fermenter (20-22 °C) for two weeks to give a bit of a diacetyl rest, as is suggested for Ringwood Ale yeast, and then kegged it straight from the fermenter. After carbonating to 2.4 volumes and letting it sit in the fridge for about 36 hours, this is one of the best beers that I have every tasted. Ever. It is just phenomenal.

I haven't had a Black Butte in a while, but I would say that it fruitier, with a bit more body, but overall even better than the Real Thing. :rockin:
 

jlpred55

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I notice the recipe that is given on the website for Deschutes lists Chocolate Wheat Malt and not a blend of english and american chocolate. That is likely the ticket to get that more creamy roast chocolate thing. I've been using Chocolate wheat in all my porters since my LHBS started carrying it. I believe it is superior in flavor to regular chocolate malts. It definately has less of the nutty roast coffee character of reg choc and more acutal chocolate flavor. I also didn't know how close my Porter recipe is as well. Bascially 10lbs 2 row, 2lbs Munich 7L, 1.4 Simpsons Crystal 50-60L, 1lb Chocolate Wheat. 60min- 1oz Willamette and .50oz EKG, 30min .50 EKG. I use either 1968 or 1056 depending upon what I have in a slurry at the time. Both are great beers with the 1968 being more indepth flavor, but mash temp is crucial to get the right attenuation depending upon which yeast I use.
 

spenghali

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Anyone do a single infusion on this? If so, what did you mash at and what was your OG, FG and ferm temps? Brewing this on Monday, just curious if I should mash a little bit lower than the planned 152.
 

Brew-ta-sauraus

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What yeast was used in the original recipe? White labs equivl please? ASLo web site says hps used are cascade, galena & tetnang differetn then the original recipe why?
 

bolts

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Single infusion works fine, I mash at 152. FG is going to depend a lot on your fermentation (pitching rate, oxygen, temp). I get very high attenuation from WLP002 and don't have any trouble with this recipe -- that said, it can be finicky.

Interesting note about the Chocolate Wheat. I just adjusted my version of this recipe to reflect the chocolate wheat -- may have to try this soon.

http://hopville.com/recipe/1192395/brown-porter-recipes/porter-v4
 

stoneyts

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When I lived near Bend this Black Butte Porter was my favorite beer and now that I m on the East Coast I miss it!!!! Has anyone actually done a very close clone doing extract? I just started brewing (only 1 batch so fat) but will want to do this one ASAP!!
 

rockfish42

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When I lived near Bend this Black Butte Porter was my favorite beer and now that I m on the East Coast I miss it!!!! Has anyone actually done a very close clone doing extract? I just started brewing (only 1 batch so fat) but will want to do this one ASAP!!
You could replace the pale malt with extract, but you would have to remove the wheat malt as it needs mashing. Alternatively you could do a mini-mash.
 

stoneyts

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Thanks rockfish! I'll have to keep this info ready to try after I've done a few more brews before I try alternate methods to all extract.
 

GotPushrods

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I'm in the process of working out my recipe numbers to brew this tomorrow. It always surprises me that one of the most important aspects of these clones is rarely touched -- water.

All that the brewer said was that he "increases Calcium to 129 ppm". There is no doubt some other motive here, and this was probably his most vague response.

I did some digging and Bend, OR tends to have water around 20 ppm Ca. It will vary, but 1 to 1.5 grains is is about 17 to 25 ppm so let's use 20. There will also be some sulfate and chloride, but we know they will be fairly low.

Tasty, on CYBI, said he used all gypsum. I don't recall them asking the brewer HOW he adds Calcium.

IF you use all CaSO4 (gypsum) to get to 129 ppm Calcium, you'll increase sulfate by about 268 ppm.

IF you use all CaCl2, you'll increase chloride by 193 ppm.

Obviously, these are two VERY different beers. I don't generally like harsh, high sulfate hoppiness, but since

  1. I really like Black Butte Porter
  2. They thought it was cloned
  3. It's only 37 Rager IBUs

...I just might do it. Well maybe split the difference with chloride and sulfate. And a little less after a small contribution from a bit of Ca(OH)2 for the alkalinity I'll need. So both will likely be in the 60-80 ppm range.

Any opinions?
 

GotPushrods

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I brewed the Saturday before last. I am out of town and don't have my notes, but I think I was around 120 ppm Ca, 40 ppm SO4, and 70 ppm Cl (And 75 ppm total alkalinity in the mash only). If nobody seems to know if it's a high sulfate beer, no way I'm starting at 250+ sulfate.

I'll start crashing when I get home Saturday and keg sometime mid next week.
 

Jhoss

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My OG was 1066.
FG was 1026........I was surprised / hoping for lower. The hydro sample tasted great but then why would'nt it what with all that sugar remaining.

Next attempt will be with 007, unless the side by side taste test says leave well enough alone....doubtful.
 

winvarin

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Didnt make this exactly. But I did make Jamil's BCS Robust porter (which he said on this show was close to the Black Butte).

The only alterations I made from Jamil's base recipe was to split my chocolate malt 50/50 (standard chocolate and pale chocolate). And I used WLP007.

Brewed 1/1. OG 1.062. FG 1.020. Higher than expected FG was due to 2 things. 1., I was shooting for 153F mash temp. Got my strike water a little hot and mashed at 155. Brew day was colder than crap so I didn't want to risk putting in cold water to bring the temp down. I just stuck with 155.

Then, I'd planned to ferment the 007 on the low side anyway (63F). The "polar vortex" hit the week of fermentation and even with a heater and a couple of blankets around my fermenter, I was struggling to keep it at 63. Thank God I pitched a big, healthy starter.

Doing a side by side with an older (Oct. 2013) bottle of Deschutes. Deschutes is hoppier and just a touch drier than mine. But they're damned close. I get more roast and coffee off mine.

I'd definitely brew this or the Jamil version again in a heartbeat. I thought about trying to dry it out a little more next time. But I keep going back to mine.

I used a toned down version of Tasty's non hoppy water profile (basically even on gypsum and CaCl). But I backed the overall mineral concentration back by about 25% of what he uses.

Either of these is a great interpretation of a robust porter. No wonder Jamil uses it as his base beer for some of his specialty stuff
 

jcaggiano

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Brewed this yesterday with a couple tweaks for my taste. Scaled back for a 3 gal carboy. Ended up with 7.75 lbs of grains total.

Did a standing mash @ 155 in a bag for 60 minutes then pressed the bag between pot lids to get all that good sticky yummy stuff.Went out for beers with my wife. When we came back I got to cooking. The SG was 1.040, so I added 3.33 Amber LME to boost the octane a little. Ended up with 1.072 for OG.

Tossed it in the fermenter with SA04 I started in some of the wort from the mash before we went out. Those little buggers are very happy, swimming around in that wort! I am excited to see how this turns out!
 

jcaggiano

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Brewed this yesterday with a couple tweaks for my taste. Scaled back for a 3 gal carboy. Ended up with 7.75 lbs of grains total.

Did a standing mash @ 155 in a bag for 60 minutes then pressed the bag between pot lids to get all that good sticky yummy stuff.Went out for beers with my wife. When we came back I got to cooking. The SG was 1.040, so I added 3.33 Amber LME to boost the octane a little. Ended up with 1.072 for OG.

Tossed it in the fermenter with SA04 I started in some of the wort from the mash before we went out. Those little buggers are very happy, swimming around in that wort! I am excited to see how this turns out!

Great recipe! This is my 6th batch ever and bar far the best beer I have made and possibly the best porter I have experienced (not just because I made it)! It is just THAT good!
 

Brutus Brewer

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Made a 10 gallon batch of this on Sunday. The only substitution I had was Hallertau instead of Tetnang for the hops. My mash temp was higher though, 157 when I checked it 30 minutes into the mash, so may have been 158. Hope that doesn't change it up too much.
 

MaCheFai

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Was getting ready to brew this, but aside from the 125 calcium level described in the podcast, cannot find the other water levels or ph anywhere?

Does anyone have that? On the podcast them mentioned searching the forums, but couldn’t find it!
 

Braufessor

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I brew a porter based on this recipe on a regular basis. Turns out very nice, every time. Here is what I use for water..... not exactly the same - but, it makes a very nice porter.
Screen Shot 2018-01-06 at 9.24.12 PM.png
 

MaCheFai

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I brew a porter based on this recipe on a regular basis. Turns out very nice, every time. Here is what I use for water..... not exactly the same - but, it makes a very nice porter.
View attachment 552737
Thanks so much! Always great to see how others have had success. Was just listening to the old podcast again, and at the very end, Tasty says he had 110 cl and 350 SO4, which is his standard! In doing some digging, it turns out that’s what he does for all of his ales and lagers! That SO4 sounds so high! But maybe it balances well with the grain bill?

As a side note, love your NEIPA recipe! Have a slightly altered version of the grain bill carbing up now with a citra(lupulin), warrior, amarillo, mosaic(lupulin) combo.
 

luckybeagle

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Brewing this exact recipe as a scaled up 10 gallon batch with WY1028 this week (the one that OP posted). I need the slurry for my long awaited English Barleywine. Since this strain attenuates more than WLP002, should I mash higher to (theoretically) make a less fermentable wort and keep the body nice and full?

It'll be single infusion with a thick mash (mash tun is only 10g), but I think I can fit enough in there to hit 1.058 OG. Brewersfriend showed a 1.064 OG using this grain bill and boil time, but maybe the OP had different equipment losses he was accounting for. Anywho, I adjusted the weights down to hit 1.058 on my system, in theory.

Anyways, starter is whirling around in the Erlenmeyer now. Can't wait to brew this one.
 
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