Can I mash out with my wort?

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DlALTONE

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If I mash out (sparge at a higher temperature) with my wort instead of water, will i get close to same results as if I used water? The wort will be drained from the mash, before being heated and used again to mash out. Thanks!
 
that's getting into decoction territory. why is it you want to use this method rather than just adding hotter water?
 
You can drain off some wort and boil it to reach mash-out temps, but I would use water to sparge with so that you don't leave behind sugars.
 
There's no harm in doing this. Just use a decoction calculatorto see how much worth to pull off. I do it everytime I'm brewing a high gravity beer and there's no space in the mashtun for more water.
 
I'm building a custom tower to brew with. If I can sparge with my wort I will save some considerable space. The wort I will mash out with will be watered down, 7 gallons wort and 7 gallons water mixed. Than I will take some of that mixture and mash out. Will my efficiency suffer slightly? Thanks again.
 
By the way, I will be draining the wort to new container, heating that and mixing with water. Than dropping some of that back over the mash in previous container.
 
If you're just doing a mash out with wort then it's perfectly fine. Just use a decoction calculator like mlg said. I've done this with a true decoction mash and also just to mash out with. Works fine.

I would not sparge with anything but pure water. You will leave a lot of sugar behind. There is essentially a limit to how much sugar a certain amount of water can hold (much more complicated than that but in basic terms this is the case). If you already have sugars in your sparge water you won't be able to get the full amount extracted from the mash into the sparge water. I'm very confused about why you would want to do that anyway. I really don't think it will save any space...?
 
The way I figure you want as much water volume to sparge with as possible with the batch sparge setup, so using some of that water for a mash out should result in less than optimal efficiency. For this reason I'd planned on taking a portion of the wort, boiling it, and adding it back to the mash for mashout. I even made a calculator to help me figure out how much wort to remove (as well as doing other calcs). I can send you the excel table but with one important caveat:
I did this when I was planning on moving to batch sparging (I fly sparge) I still am but I'm in the process of converting to eHerms so I've never used the calculator and probably never will and thus cannot verify its accuracy. That said, it's based on the formulas Palmer provides in How to Brew. In short, caveat emptor. Oh, and I structured it with the assumption that I'd do two equal sized batch sparges (split sparge) with each batch equal to the mash volume (supposedly this is the most efficient way to do it - Kaiser has a wiki and fancy chart that show this).

My thinking is that the wort is getting boiled anyway so I don't see a problem with this method. Maybe some of the hotbreak gets stuck in the mash but this is fine since many skim the hotbreak off anyway. Yes, you would denature the enzymes in the wort you boil but, again, the purpose of the mashout is to do just that. I frankly don't see why others aren't doing this.

This isn't a decoction because with a decoction you take the thickest third of the mash (the grains).. here you're just taking the wort. I would be hesitant to use a decoction calculator because the grains probably hold more heat than the wort, thus doing a 'wort only' decoction would probably undershoot your target temp based on a decoction calculator. The way I did my excel sheet was to treat it like an infusion for a step mash but account for the fact that the volume you add for the infusion is actually coming out of the mash (so as the infusion gets larger the mash volume gets smaller which then means that the necessary infusion volume gets smaller - it's reciprocal).

And I don't see why you'd add water to the wort to do this. I don't think that accomplishes anything. You're just wasting water that would be better employed during the sparge for maximum sugar flushing.

Edit: If you're planning on sparging with the [diluted] wort then I'd tend to agree with Ryush. You'll take a big hit in efficiency doing that. But many here employ no-sparge systems and this would be more efficient than that at least. If space is such an issue that it's limiting your sparge just do two or three sparges, you'll get better efficiency that way anyhow. Moreover, if space is that much of an issue then go to a bigger pot. I'd rather have the tower too tall than constantly be struggling with space issues in the mash tun. That said, it sounds to me like you're only planning on doing the mashout with the wort which, again, is fine IMO.
 
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