Can I make and sell hard cider in Michigan legally?

[BigRapidsBrewingCompany]

Does anyone know what the legality of making hard cider is? We have licensing to brew and sell beer in house. We don't have the license to make wine. Can we make cider? What category does this fall under?

 

[ImNoExpert]

In my state cider is included under a winery permit.

 

[reverendj1]

Hey, I was just at the Blue Cow a few days ago. Unfortunately, you were out of most of your beers. Anywho, in Michigan, it looks like you need a Small Wine-Makers license. productcenter.msu.edu/uploads/files/marketing.pdf‎

 

[Randzor]

hop it with one piece of hops, and call it beer?

 

[LeBreton]

Yep, legally cider = wine. You're gonna need a separate bonded winery area if you want to make cider at your brewery.

 

[BigRapidsBrewingCompany]

Hey, I was just at the Blue Cow a few days ago. Unfortunately, you were out of most of your beers. Anywho, in Michigan, it looks like you need a Small Wine-Makers license. productcenter.msu.edu/uploads/files/marketing.pdf‎

Well you should come back! We just re filled our taps today! And thanks for the links

 

[BigRapidsBrewingCompany]

Yep, legally cider = wine. You're gonna need a separate bonded winery area if you want to make cider at your brewery.

Good to know. Thanks a bunch!

 

[BigRapidsBrewingCompany]

hop it with one piece of hops, and call it beer?

Hmmm... Not a bad idea but I don't think the state would go for that one

 

[KevinM]

I think there are also limits on combining beer and fruit. Flavoring is one thing, but combining them migh put them in a different category. I know a place said something about not being able to do a mead/beer combo due to licensing.

 

[BigRapidsBrewingCompany]

Looks like I will have to look into some wine-making licensing then! I have a few fans that are gluten-intolerant and I want to be able to cater to them as well. Gluten free beer is possible but it requires the use of DME and we brew everything full-grain here.

 

[KevinM]

Keep track with us in the gluten free beer section of the forum. We'll get a grain process eventually.

One of the things about gluten free and regular brewing would also be issues about using the same equipment and us worrying about cross contamination. Mostly a warning label for consumers.

 

[Jacob_Marley]

... We have licensing to brew and sell beer in house. ...

A Brewpub is a type of retailer (generally a Class C) and as such can not have a manufacturer’s license whether Brewer, Micro-brewer or Small Winemaker.

However, in Michigan if you’re a Micro-brewer (or brewer), which of course does allow you to sell by the glass at a single, primary location (as specified), you CAN hold a simultaneous Small Winemakers License. This is holding two manufacturers licenses.

Generally each license has pretty much the same hoops and you’ll have to jump through them for each one separately ... including the background checks and filings ... blah, blah, blah.
The only place you’re likely to cut the corner on dual licenses is on the health inspections and local approvals.

Other states have different laws.

Federal is another matter.
When you have a Small Winemakers and Microbrewers License at the same location, as far as I know, per the TTB you have to account for your operations as an “alternating premise” ... that is, you may only manufacture one or the other at a time ... and you have to account for and effectively “log out” as a brewery when you are in wine/cider operations and visa-versa.

 

[zing]

I'm a fairly recent transplant from Michigan, and my understanding is that because of the huge and thriving wine industry, the state has made it pretty easy to acquire a small winery license, especially as a microbrewery.

I spent 6 months at Saugatuck Brewing, where we had a proprietary cider made by one of the wineries in Fennville; New Holland has the same arrangement with the same winery. It may be worth looking around the area to find someone already producing cider that might be willing to produce something to your specifications without tying up your tank space.

That said, as far as I know, it shouldn't be difficult at all for you all to acquire your own small winery license in addition to your brewing license (which, for whatever reason seems to be the most difficult to come by—even more-so than a small distiller's license...probably because of distributers).

All of my information/suggestions are based in absolutely no knowledge of liquor law, though...just relaying what I've seen and heard...