Can beer line be too long?

[FlyDoctor]

High Carb Kegging question:

I have a Dubbel kegged - on gas at 20psi (35F) for over a week (aiming for 3.5 volumes). Anticipating foam, I set up a 30ft line to a picnic tap. I get nothing but foam out - and the beer is flat. What is interesting is the foam is slow, but there is beer visible in the line for a good length - but it seems to turn to foam along the way.

Is it possible this line is too long? Any advice much appreciated.

 

[zachattack]

The beer is flat because the foam is the carbonation leaving the beer. 3.5 volumes is pretty tough to serve at.

How many pints have you tried pulling? If the foam appears partway through the beer line as you pour, it sounds to me like the beer line may be warm. If the beer turns to foam as it exits the faucet, that would indicate that your line isn't long enough. But 30' should be long enough (assuming 3/16" ID).

If you keep the picnic tap open and keep pouring, does the line eventually fill completely with beer?

 

[FlyDoctor]

The foam shows up about half-way along the line...the line closest to the keg looks to be filled with beer.

Keeping the tap open - well, I guess I'd say no since I filled a few pint glasses and the "Beer" never reaches the glas - just foam. Regarding the temp - I was wondering about that as well - but since the whole cpoil of line is in my freezer it should all be cold.

I'm wondering - if the pressure in the line gets too low as the beer proceeds along - maybe its hits a point where the foam is encouraged due to low external pressure - then its the CO2 coming form the beer that pushes it along then on.

I can always cut back the line to 20 ft and see whether the beer hits the end.

I know its tough to serve beer at this carbonation - but in the commercial dubbels I've had the higher the carbonation the better the beer tastes to me, and this level is the recommended for the style.

Thanks!!!

 

[zachattack]

Oh I agree, the higher carb is one of the things that makes Belgian beers great.

How slow is the flow? If it's trickling through the line, definitely try trimming the line down.

You can also try dropping the kegerator to 33 degrees and the pressure to 18 PSI, that might help a little bit. Try to make sure everything is cold, especially the line. Is there a fan in your kegerator/keezer?

 

[FlyDoctor]

The flow is very slow, a trickle is a good description. I don't have a fan - do you think its needed if I don't have a tower? I just coil up the lines on top of the kegs.

Thanks for your help.

 

[JuanMoore]

The foam shows up about half-way along the line...the line closest to the keg looks to be filled with beer.

Keeping the tap open - well, I guess I'd say no since I filled a few pint glasses and the "Beer" never reaches the glas - just foam. Regarding the temp - I was wondering about that as well - but since the whole cpoil of line is in my freezer it should all be cold.

I'm wondering - if the pressure in the line gets too low as the beer proceeds along - maybe its hits a point where the foam is encouraged due to low external pressure - then its the CO2 coming form the beer that pushes it along then on.

I can always cut back the line to 20 ft and see whether the beer hits the end.

I know its tough to serve beer at this carbonation - but in the commercial dubbels I've had the higher the carbonation the better the beer tastes to me, and this level is the recommended for the style.

Thanks!!!

Have you watched what's happening in the line as you pour a beer, or are you just guessing? If you've actually watched it do what you described, it sounds to me like the line is warmer than the beer in the keg. Is the line at the top of your freezer, where it could be a few degrees warmer than the bottom of the freezer?

Did you use the set and forget carb method, or one of the burst carb methods? If you didn't use the set and forget, it's possible that the carb level is higher than the serving pressure, which could explain things.

There's no such thing as foam caused by lines being too long. The ONLY negative effect of excessively long lines is a slow pour. No matter how long the line is, the beer is always transitioning from keg pressure to atmospheric pressure during the pour, so lower pressure inside the lines isn't going to create more foaming than a shorter line with higher pressure. In fact, the slower this transition occurs, the less CO2 will be knocked out of solution.

How slow is the pour exactly? With your figures it should be filling a 16 oz glass in ~14 seconds, which is slow, but not what I would call a trickle. If your pour is significantly slower than that, you may have an obstruction or other issue that's causing the foam. And for 3.5 vol I don't think you'd want the pint fill time much faster than 14 seconds if you expect to keep much of the carbonation in the glass.

 

[FlyDoctor]

Juan - thanks for the thoughts. Yes, I have watched the beer in the line do this. The lines are on top of the keg, so I guess the temps might be variable. I will get a fan and see if it helps.

Regarding carb method, I put this keg at 40psi for 2 days (starting when first dropped into keezer - still warm), then dropped to 20psi. No shaking or any of that. I tapped it on day7.

Thanks for the advise!