Can a Cooler mash tun with scratches contribute to an infection

[bracconiere]

something like this great for me....

https://www.morebeer.com/products/kettle-tube-screen-stainless-steel.html
in my round cooler i don't need that much drainage length.....

 

[IslandLizard]

Ya know...I've been thinking about building mine out of PVC...the braided line is starting to show some signs of worn-ness. Did you cut those slots yourself? Do you have some sort of filter before it hits the spigot? Do you like it better than the braided line? More efficient? Trying to come up with some ideas.

I used a thin kerf paneling blade on my "table saw" (inverted circular saw), the cuts were very smooth and clean.
A hack saw blade may be a better choice for making the slots. Or a router.
They're a little less than half way through.

I don't use a filter, just Vorlauf 2-3 times until it runs clear.

The slots could/should be a little narrower than that. Main reason is, I always pick up some grain bits in the first Vorlauf. I Vorlauf about a 1/2 - 3/4 gallon twice (into a 3.5 gallon bucket) before collecting wort for the boil. Sometimes I return the first gallon of the runnings if it's still too cloudy. It's usually fine after that.

The Vorlauf is returned on top of a layer of perforated aluminum foil (ya-ya, I know... maybe I'll use mylar someday) that a) helps keep the heat in during the mash and b) reduces turbulence when returning the Vorlauf since the grain bed (for 5-6 gallon 1.060 batches) is fairly shallow.

Last year picked up another mash tun (came with a deal) that has a braid. I haven't had the opportunity used it yet, so can't compare.

 

[bracconiere]

Last year picked up another mash tun (came with a deal) that has a braid. I haven't had the opportunity used it yet, so can't compare

mine lasted a good few years, but ended up getting squished, and not working anymore......

 

[olotti]

Not doubting your badly leeching mash tun may have something to do with off flavors or noticeable astringency. But over-sparging or high sparge pH (runoff should remain under pH 5.8) can also cause astringency.
Maybe your water composition has changed?

And if your brewing water is municipal or otherwise chlorinated, definitely treat all of it with Campden to remove chlorine or chloramines.

It was a 14lb grist and I mashed in with 7gal distilled water I bought from local grocery store. So I mash in on a 14lb grist with 7 gal then single batch sparge with 4 gal heated to 197 to get the grain bed to 168-170. Let it sit then vorlouf and come t my final running’s. I used to use ro water that you could fill at the stores but those are all shut down but ro and distilled seem to be one in the same. So I use distilled and add my minerals to bru’n water guide to a mash ph of 5.4
Or 5.3

 

[IslandLizard]

Could u send a link to build something like that. I like it vs the false bottom o have that while nice I lose mash efficiency leaving like 2gal under the fb. That looks like it’ll pick up all the wort when u mash. I batch sparge I’m assuming u do to

I got this CVPC manifold build and layout from another HBT post, back in 2013. It was for a larger, 70-some qt cooler/tun. I just scaled it down to fit mine. You want those capped ends fit snugly against the walls as those keep it together. It's all friction fit, there's no glue anywhere. I often need to look for the small pieces after dumping it out in the compost bin...

If the tun is larger, having a bit more floor space, the manifold could be improved with another T on each of the 2 outside legs, somewhere in or near that rectangular area where all the Ts connect, to give it a bit more sideways support/clamping power there to the long walls. Although mine has never come apart during the mash, just don't dig it up.

CPVC is really cheap, I think I paid under $10 for a bag of T's, some more (loose) Ts, endcaps and a 10' length of 1/2" CPVC.
Here's the detail of the bulkhead connection area, again, upside down:

I did end up siliconing the bulkhead connection, the flat rubber washer area, because I couldn't get it to seal by itself as the drain hole is not quite perpendicular to the wall.

There's also a plastic "reinforcement tube" siliconed inside the cooler's drain hole, through which the bulkhead runs. That way I can really tighten those nuts down, without squeezing/compressing the cooler wall itself.

 

[IslandLizard]

mine lasted a good few years, but ended up getting squished, and not working anymore......

What are you using now?

 

[bracconiere]

i mill about as fine as the BIAB'rs......

edit: i don't think it'd work for your rectangular cooler though.....fits perfectly in 10 gallon round one though.....

 

[jrgtr42]

View attachment 693030

I built something like that for my MLT (48-qt cooler) whenever it was, and it's still running like a champ. I got a length of copper tubing, a handful of connecters, and a tube cutter.
I used my Dremel with a cutoff disk to cut the slots, and a quick sanding just to get the rough edges off.
It's upside down from usual - the slots face down for use. I haven't yet had an issue with parts falling off in use.

 

[bracconiere]

I built something like that for my MLT (48-qt cooler) whenever it was, and it's still running like a champ. I got a length of copper tubing, a handful of connecters, and a tube cutter.
I used my Dremel with a cutoff disk to cut the slots, and a quick sanding just to get the rough edges off.
It's upside down from usual - the slots face down for use. I haven't yet had an issue with parts falling off in use.
View attachment 693037

i just gotta ask, why do you guys with the slot ports, always post pics of it upside down?

edit: and damn, i can't even keep my coffee pot as clean as you guy's mash tuns!!!

 

[IslandLizard]

When buying a new cooler, make sure the drain is flat with the bottom or better yet, recessed into the bottom, or the deadspace might kill you (well, your mash efficiency that is, but when brewing it comes down to almost the same).

Some modern coolers look good, but the drain is 3 inches up from the bottom.

 

[bracconiere]

as long as we're posting dick pics....here's mine, my cooler is 20 years old, being used once a week....but no bubbles or leaks....

 

[IslandLizard]

i just gotta ask, why do you guys with the slot ports, always post pics of it upside down?

edit: and damn, i can't even keep my coffee pot as clean as you guy's mash tuns!!!

Whether you picture them up or down, you always get a guy (or girl) asking why not show it the other way.
But seriously, we like to show off our handy work.

That picture of my tun was before it had seen any mash yet, or even water. It's quite differently looking now, trust me, it probably looks way worse than your coffee pot.

 

[IslandLizard]

as long as we're posting dick pics....here's mine, my cooler is 20 years old, being used once a week....but no bubbles or leaks....

View attachment 693038

Ansel Adams' Nightfall in Mash Tun. ^

 

[bracconiere]

LOL, damn, i just happened to be on top!

 

[bracconiere]

Ansel Adams' Nightfall in Mash Tun. ^

maybe light would shine better, if i wasn't worried about how much PBW costs.....

edit: and this is a new camera i spent $30 on! damn it......

 

[jrgtr42]

i just gotta ask, why do you guys with the slot ports, always post pics of it upside down?

Whether you picture them up or down, you always get a guy asking why not show it the other way.
But seriously, we like to show off our handy work.

LOL!!! Like Island lizard said - we like to show off -
but I did it that way to show the pattern of the slots. I've seen people who drill holes, (remembering how tedius it was doing the slots, that had to be brutal) or other patterns, but this is how I did it, and it works out well for me.

 

[bracconiere]

at this point i feel like we're just all cockblocking the OP......he had a leaky cooler and unexpected, shall we say, present?

 

[olotti]

When buying a new cooler, make sure the drain is flat with the bottom or better yet, recessed into the bottom, or the deadspace might kill you (well, your mash efficiency that is, but when brewing it comes down to almost the same).

Some modern coolers look good, but the drain is 3 inches up from the bottom.

See I need something like this. My round cooler with the false bottom leaves like 1-2 gal under the false bottom and I just know that’s always been killing my mash efficiency. I like the round but their drains/spouts are always 2” above the bottom of the cooler.

 

[olotti]

I built something like that for my MLT (48-qt cooler) whenever it was, and it's still running like a champ. I got a length of copper tubing, a handful of connecters, and a tube cutter.
I used my Dremel with a cutoff disk to cut the slots, and a quick sanding just to get the rough edges off.
It's upside down from usual - the slots face down for use. I haven't yet had an issue with parts falling off in use.
View attachment 693037

Would u mind pm’ing me the dimensions and size of the copper tubing and what u used to make the spigot connection. I think rather than buy a new round cooler I’d like to move to something like this to hopefully help my mash efficiency. Do u find u get good extraction using a manifold like this.

 

[IslandLizard]

See I need something like this. My round cooler with the false bottom leaves like 1-2 gal under the false bottom and I just know that’s always been killing my mash efficiency. I like the round but their drains/spouts are always 2” above the bottom of the cooler.

As long as there's a diptube connected to the drain and reaching the bottom underneath the false bottom, it should siphon out the deadspace. That is, as long as the siphon doesn't get broken, which is often a problem in mash tuns.

Are you recirculating the mash? Fly sparging? Hence the false bottom and ample deadspace.

I envisioned the lack of stirring space in round coolers to be a real problem. So I opted for a rectangular cooler. They're very easy to stir (more space) and most come with bottom level or recessed drains. A slight tilt at the end gets the last few ounces out. The only possible drawback is shallow grain depth in 5-6 gallon, low to medium gravity batches. But with some care, clear wort can be lautered.

I usually mash at a water to grain ratio of 1.5 qt/lb. After completely draining, I do 2 batch sparges (good stirring) with full drains. About half the brewing water is used for sparging in a 1.060 batch. Mash efficiency is 80-85%.

Step mashes and cereal mashes get done in the brew kettle, then transferred to the cooler mash tun for lautering and sparging. I prefer that over trying to heat the grist in the tun. There's so much heat loss while the lid is off, it becomes like the gopher game.

 

[olotti]

As long as there's a diptube connected to the drain and reaching the bottom underneath the false bottom, it should siphon out the deadspace. That is, as long as the siphon doesn't get broken, which is often a problem in mash tuns.

Are you recirculating the mash? Fly sparging? Hence the false bottom and ample deadspace.

I envisioned the lack of stirring space in round coolers to be a real problem. So I opted for a rectangular cooler. They're very easy to stir (more space) and most come with bottom level or recessed drains. A slight tilt at the end gets the last few ounces out. The only possible drawback is shallow grain depth in 5-6 gallon, low to medium gravity batches. But with some care, clear wort can be lautered.

I usually mash at a water to grain ratio of 1.5 qt/lb. After completely draining, I do 2 batch sparges (good stirring) with full drains. About half the brewing water is used for sparging in a 1.060 batch. Mash efficiency is 80-85%.

Step mashes and cereal mashes get done in the brew kettle, then transferred to the cooler mash tun for lautering and sparging. I prefer that over trying to heat the grist in the tun. There's so much heat loss while the lid is off, it becomes like the gopher game.

I do not currently have a dip tube which if I go to a round again I need to get. However I thought about upping the cooler size just to accommodate larger grain bills for high gravity stouts so I don’t have to add dme to the boil to reach my desired og. The cpvc manifold looks pretty easy to put together, it’s cheap and I like the idea of being able to access all the wort.

Do u find the slits in the manifold filter well? I still have bits of grain that sneak through the false bottom but a couple vorloufs and the wort runs clear so I know nothings foolproof.

 

[olotti]

As long as there's a diptube connected to the drain and reaching the bottom underneath the false bottom, it should siphon out the deadspace. That is, as long as the siphon doesn't get broken, which is often a problem in mash tuns.

Are you recirculating the mash? Fly sparging? Hence the false bottom and ample deadspace.

I envisioned the lack of stirring space in round coolers to be a real problem. So I opted for a rectangular cooler. They're very easy to stir (more space) and most come with bottom level or recessed drains. A slight tilt at the end gets the last few ounces out. The only possible drawback is shallow grain depth in 5-6 gallon, low to medium gravity batches. But with some care, clear wort can be lautered.

I usually mash at a water to grain ratio of 1.5 qt/lb. After completely draining, I do 2 batch sparges (good stirring) with full drains. About half the brewing water is used for sparging in a 1.060 batch. Mash efficiency is 80-85%.

Step mashes and cereal mashes get done in the brew kettle, then transferred to the cooler mash tun for lautering and sparging. I prefer that over trying to heat the grist in the tun. There's so much heat loss while the lid is off, it becomes like the gopher game.

This is what I’m dealing with and it’s been this way for years until I realized the wort was actually breaching the wall of the cooler and leaking out under the spigot.

 

[IslandLizard]

Do u find the slits in the manifold filter well? I still have bits of grain that sneak through the false bottom but a couple vorloufs and the wort runs clear so I know nothings foolproof.

I outlined my Vorlauf and Lautering process in #32.

I'm quite sure the first vorlauf has grain bits due to the stirring while mashing in (I underlet the grist).
And again, from stirring during the batch sparge.
But once the grain bed has settled the runnings are clear. You do have to return the Vorlauf slowly and carefully not to disturb the grain bed too much, it's fairly shallow, unlike in your round tun. Hence pouring onto the perforated aluminum foil mash cover. I have a few empty, amazingly thick, heavy duty plastic sacks that contained dog food (Blue Buffalo). They may be mylar. I may cut one up and try to use as a mash cover next.

I really don't think a few grain bits that make it to the kettle are gonna harm your wort/beer.

My mash tun is sitting on a low 12" bench. I vorlauf and lauter into a "half size," 3.5 gallon bucket. I carefully transfer the collected runnings into my kettle, which sits on an induction burner on the countertop. So there's one series of lifts involved, about 2-3 gallons a time.

 

[jrgtr42]

Would u mind pm’ing me the dimensions and size of the copper tubing and what u used to make the spigot connection. I think rather than buy a new round cooler I’d like to move to something like this to hopefully help my mash efficiency. Do u find u get good extraction using a manifold like this.

I used a 48-qt cooler I got at Home Depot. The spigot I ordered from one of the HB supply shops online - I don't remember which one, but it was an easy enough install. The hardest part was getting the stock one out.
The tubing is 5/8" outside diameter, I think I got a 6 or 8-foot length. I didn't make to any specific dimensions, I more or less eyeballed it to fit. Along with the corner pieces, 4 corners, a T shape and 2 45-degree t's. I think I brought the spigot in to make sure it fit snugly.

 

[bracconiere]

See I need something like this. My round cooler with the false bottom leaves like 1-2 gal under the false bottom and I just know that’s always been killing my mash efficiency. I like the round but their drains/spouts are always 2” above the bottom of the cooler.

wouldn't splitting your batch sparges into more, work to reduce how much sugar is lost in the 'dead space'? i fly sparge, so i don't think i lose much in the dead space.....

 

[olotti]

wouldn't splitting your batch sparges into more, work to reduce how much sugar is lost in the 'dead space'? i fly sparge, so i don't think i lose much in the dead space.....

well I think a big prob was that I was maybe using to much water and leaving slot of sugars behind under the false bottom so I finally retrofitted a braid to the manifold inlet and that’ll lay on the bottom of the mlt to now hopefully grab all the rest of the wort I was never getting before.

 

[bracconiere]

using to much water and leaving slot of sugars behind under the false bottom

that was what i was trying to say, batch sparging you drain completely right? so if instead of only doing 2 drainings, you did 4 or something....the average loss in the dead space would be less wouldn't it?

 

[olotti]

that was what i was trying to say, batch sparging you drain completely right? so if instead of only doing 2 drainings, you did 4 or something....the average loss in the dead space would be less wouldn't it?

yes I drain until basically the wort stops flowing however here is still wort left underneath the inlet. I only drain twice once after the initial mash in collect 3.5-4 gal then again after my single sparge to get the rest of my volume.

 

[bracconiere]

if you have say 1.070 wort in the dead space after the first drain....then have 1.040 or some crap....i'm not that good at math with my 4th grade education,

but if you did more rinse with less water it'd be an avg...


(1.070+1.040+1.020+1.008)/4=ahh, hell, less loss...... (and if it's just the dead space causing your losses, you wouldn't even need to cover the grain bed...if you're worried about to much volume in the BK)

edit: damn, i woke up to 22 alerts this morning! what was this thread about again?


edit #2: leaky rubbermaid, now i remember a bit more.... i can hear the crowd chanting P.U. already,