Can’t hit my final gravity

[mac_1103]

Most bi-metal dial thermometers have an accuracy spec of +/- 2% of the dial range. 20-220 would be a swing of 8F.

Yeah those things are worthless. No argument from me.

NIST Traceable Non-Mercury Thermometers, Spirit, -1 to 101°C, Certified at 10°C 20°C, 25°C, 37°C, 56°C, 70°C, 80°C, 90°C, 100°C, Immersion 76mm, 450mm SKU : ACC10053BLSFC
$771.55

I'm a retired scientist. Spend a good part of my career in academia. You would not believe some of the **** that got thrown away when old profs retired (or died).

 

[Bobby_M]

You take that back!

My thermapen has a back light, a rotating display, is 100% waterproof, and I haven't changed the battery in 4 years.

It's not about the top speed, its about the ride

I have two thermapens in my collection but for people who don't see the value, there's a middle ground that is reasonably good.

 

[Joeymacca]

If you are getting consistent FG of 1.020, it may be your mashing procedure. Here are some suggestions:
-Check your thermometer, maybe get a new one.
-Stir the mash every 15 minutes and check the temperature. If you are losing temperature, maybe you need to insulate your BIAB vessel better during the mash?
-I used to be real fussy with my mash temps and stir often and check temps, but these days I use my smooth top electric range, which holds heat for a while, wrap up the kettle in an old coat and don't mess with it.
-Try extending your mash time, I've done overnight mashes when I'm trying to get a real dry beer.

Thanks for these suggestions. I’ve been mashing at 154F for 60mins, stirring once at 30mins and checking the temp. I insulate the kettle with a blanket but sometimes find it drops down to 150F after 30mins so I temp back up.

I think I’ll try your suggestion of a longer mash time and checking the temp more often. Thanks!

 

[Joeymacca]

Have you been using that pale malt in each of the brews? What brand is it? I had been using Briess Brewers Malt 2-row and switched to Briess Pale Ale 2-row and the diastatic power of the Pale Ale malt is a significantly less than the Brewers Malt. When I used the Pale Ale malt at around 75-80% with other malts (and adjuncts) lacking diastatic power, I would have difficulties reaching target gravities. (I might be saying the same thing as BobbyM but I am not sure if Dextrine heavy malts implies low diastatic power.) Not your problem as stated but then when I mashed at full body temps (154) I would end up around 1.020 like you. However I don't BIAB, I have a 3 vessel system. I have also had temperature probe variability in the past but can't really detail specific outcomes definitively but I do suggest making sure your thermometer(s) are well calibrated, particularly when brewing light and full body beers as being off could lead to being too low or too high. I would also recommend trying a lower mash temperature (148F) and see what happens.

I’m not sure of the brand. My LHBS just lists it as Premium Canadian 2-Row Barley Malt (Pale Malt).

With that said, I’ve had this issue with 2 row and Maris Otter as my base. I’ll take your suggestions of trying to mash at 148F. Thank you!

 

[Deadalus]

I’m not sure of the brand. My LHBS just lists it as Premium Canadian 2-Row Barley Malt (Pale Malt).

With that said, I’ve had this issue with 2 row and Maris Otter as my base. I’ll take your suggestions of trying to mash at 148F. Thank you!

If you remember next time you are there check the brand name and then you could look up the grain information. Like you yourself are thinking, I was wondering what might be in common for all your brews. I was wondering if maybe you bought a full sack of pale malt. I have a 55 lb sack of Muntons Maris Otter which I hadn't looked up but its diastatic power is 62. That's lower than the Briess Pale malt which is 85 while the Brewers Malt from Briess is 140. Manufacturer is important because even for the same type of malt the diastatic power can vary. Your recipe that you posted isn't really borderline though you have slightly over 75% base malt and it was a pale malt. The recipe I was thinking of that I had trouble with the most actually had Maris Otter in it at 66% with 8% wheat, mashed at 156F. I didn't mind it being full bodied but I missed my target OG by quite a bit. I may have overshot too I was having some difficulty calibrating my temperature probe for an indeterminate period.

I'm not a BIAB brewer, but one item that stuck out in my reading about the process that I recall was that the method tends to produce fuller bodied beers. Unfortunately, I haven't seen this mentioned frequently here so I don't have a good understanding of the why but I think it has something to do with the grist ratio. I mention it because you have stated that you are mashing at 154F which in itself is the temperature region for fuller bodied beers (fewer fermentables).
Anyway, definitely try mashing at 148, maybe pick a style with a fairly simple grain bill which is suited for a lighter body and see how it works out.

 

[madscientist451]

Thanks for these suggestions. I’ve been mashing at 154F for 60mins, stirring once at 30mins and checking the temp. I insulate the kettle with a blanket but sometimes find it drops down to 150F after 30mins so I temp back up.

I think I’ll try your suggestion of a longer mash time and checking the temp more often. Thanks!

So the only reason I was suggesting checking your mash temp more often was to see what your heat loss is. By stirring and checking your temperature, you are actually causing more heat loss. What works for me is to hit my mash temp and then walk away, go do something else. When you heat the mash back up, some of the mash may be going higher than you want (depending on your method).
Maybe describe your mash method? Are you adding the grain to the pre-heated strike water? Are you bottom heating the mash after the grain is in?
Laying a piece of foil on top of the mash will keep some heat in and putting a bungy cord around the blanket helps as well.
If I'm in a hurry, I stop the mash after an hour, but sometimes I'll let it sit for 2 hours or longer. I've also done short and shoddy 30 minute mashes and the beer comes out OK, and many brewers say that conversion actually doesn't take an hour. But if you are getting consistent higher attenuation than you want, then I'm thinking there something going on with your method.

 

[RM-MN]

19.1% Dextrine heavy malts, mashed at 154F and a single pack of liquid yeast of unknown age. I'm not surprised at all with an FG of 1.020.

Thanks for these suggestions. I’ve been mashing at 154F for 60mins, stirring once at 30mins and checking the temp. I insulate the kettle with a blanket but sometimes find it drops down to 150F after 30mins so I temp back up.

I see three potential problems that together can make your FG higher than you want. Bobby M listed one of them, dextrine malts. You don't need Carapils with all grain because you can control the amount of dextrines by manipulating the mash temp so ditch the Carapils.

When you add heat to an already converting mash, unless you stir vigorously all the time the heat is applied you are getting hot spots that denature the very enzymes needed for conversion.

You mentioned getting your grains from your LHBS. If you have them mill them for you the quality of the milling is always suspect as many of them will set the mill to keep the people who use a conventional mash tun from having a stuck mash or sparge. That coarser milling takes longer to fully convert and thus require more time. Since your mash hasn't fully converted you add heat to keep the temperature up but as I mentioned above, you may be defeating yourself by denaturing the enzymes. If possible, ask for the grains to be milled finer or double milled and forget about adding heat. Finely milled grains can have their starches converted to sugars incredibly quickly, much quicker than the hour that you try to mash.

 

[dmtaylor]

And calibrate your mash thermometer (I haven't seen the OP reply that he's done that yet).

 

[Joeymacca]

And calibrate your mash thermometer (I haven't seen the OP reply that he's done that yet).

I tested the thermometer today (ThermoPro digital thermometer). 33.4F in ice water. So I’m guessing it’s not a thermometer issue?

Looks like I have a few things to try. Longer mash. Lower mash temp. Have the LHBS mill the grains twice. Limit dextrine heavy malts.

 

[bracconiere]

Certified:

NIST Traceable Non-Mercury Thermometers, Spirit, -1 to 101°C, Certified at 10°C 20°C, 25°C, 37°C, 56°C, 70°C, 80°C, 90°C, 100°C, Immersion 76mm, 450mm SKU : ACC10053BLSFC
$771.55

I will buy from Bobby M: CDN Digital Thermometer LONG PROBE DTW450L

at $21!

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/how-about-a-meme-generator-thread.654449/post-10203158

 

[Joeymacca]

I’m going to brew an IPA in the next couple days using Brew in a Bag method. I’ll do my best to incorporate the changes suggested by everyone here and report back once I have a FG. If anyone has any comments on the recipe I’ll post it here. 5 Gallon batch. Should be around 1.071 OG and 1.016 FG according to BeerSmith. With such a high original gravity should I maybe pitch 2 packs of liquid yeast? I’ve never done that before but have read that it may be necessary for high gravity beers. I’m planning to use Imperial Flagship yeast.

10 lb 9.3 oz​	Pale Malt (2 Row) US Mash (75.7%) - 2.0 SRM​	Grain​	1​	75.7%​	0.83 gal​
1 lb 11.2 oz​	Munich Malt Mash (12.2%) - 9.0 SRM​	Grain​	2​	12.2%​	0.13 gal​
1 lb 3.7 oz​	Caramel/Crystal Malt - 30L Mash (8.8%) - 30.0 SRM​	Grain​	3​	8.8%​	0.10 gal​
7.6 oz​	Caramunich Malt Mash (3.4%) - 56.0 SRM​	Grain​	4​	3.4%​	0.04 gal​
0.85 oz​	Columbus (Tomahawk) Boil 60 min (49.2 IBUs)​	Hop​	5​	49.2 IBUs​	-​
0.85 oz​	Centennial Boil 30 min (21.6 IBUs)​	Hop​	6​	21.6 IBUs​	-​
0.85 oz​	Amarillo Boil 10 min (9.4 IBUs)​	Hop​	7​	9.4 IBUs​	-​
0.85 oz​	Centennial Boil 10 min (10.2 IBUs)​	Hop​	8​	10.2 IBUs​	-​
2.56 oz​	Cascade Boil 5 min (9.2 IBUs)​	Hop​	9​	9.2 IBUs​	-​
1.28 oz​	Centennial Whirlpool 15 min at 194.4 F (10.4 IBUs)​	Hop​	10​	10.4 IBUs​	-​
1.28 oz​	Cascade Whirlpool 15 min at 194.4 F (5.7 IBUs)​	Hop​	11​	5.7 IBUs​	-​
0.85 oz​	Cascade Whirlpool 15 min at 194.4 F (3.8 IBUs)​	Hop​	12​	3.8 IBUs​	-​
0.8 pkgs​	American Ale Wyeast Labs #1056​	Ale yeast​	13​	-​	-​
0.83 oz​	Amarillo 5 Days Before Bottling for 5 Days (0.0 IBUs)​	Hop​	14​	0.0 IBUs​	-​

 

[Brewsmith]

Can I ask why so much crystal malt? Between the crystal and caramunich, you are at about 12% crystal malt. For an IPA that big, I’d cut that in half. Your whole post has been about high FG readings. I don’t see this one finishing much lower.

 

[Joeymacca]

Can I ask why so much crystal malt? Between the crystal and caramunich, you are at about 12% crystal malt. For an IPA that big, I’d cut that in half. Your whole post has been about high FG readings. I don’t see this one finishing much lower.

No particular reason for the 12% crystal. I didn’t design the recipe. It’s a clone of an IPA that is locally available where I live called Fat Tug by Driftwood Brewery in Victoria BC. If I were to cut the crystal in half would I then make up that loss by adding to the 2-row? got example, if I take out 1lb of crystal would I add 1lb of 2-row? Sorry if these questions sound amateur but that’s exactly what I am! Lol.

 

[bracconiere]

i am curious why the two difrent sized cascade additions at 15 min?

 

[bracconiere]

Can I ask why so much crystal malt?

i too was wondering but then got to think the 10°L (thanks @IslandLizard! ) munich isn't actually a mashed in the husk crystal but more like a roast barley type thing, thought the roastyness of it might go with the crystal a bit, but for 'my' taste i would cut back, but it gave me cause for doubt of it being too much crystal...


and it's not like it's everyone's favorite crystal 60°L


(is degrees litner or degrees lovibond too? )

 

[Brewsmith]

Where did the recipe come from? If the brewery is saying that’s what the recipe is, then that’s one thing, but if it’s just someone’s random clone I’d possible edit it.

 

[Brewsmith]

if I take out 1lb of crystal would I add 1lb of 2-row?

Basically, yes you can.

 

[Joeymacca]

i am curious why the two difrent sized cascade additions at 15 min?

Good catch! The second cascade addition should be a dry hop addition. I inputted it on wrong. Thanks for catching that

 

[bracconiere]

Good catch! The second cascade addition should be a dry hop addition. I inputted it on wrong. Thanks for catching that

i'm always glad when i'm useful!

 

[Joeymacca]

Where did the recipe come from? If the brewery is saying that’s what the recipe is, then that’s one thing, but if it’s just someone’s random clone I’d possible edit it.

The recipe is not from the brewery. It’s from my LHBS.

https://barleyshomebrewing.com/beer-recipes-from-barleys/all-grain-recipes/
It’s the recipe called Fast Tug. I’ll modify it to reduce the crystal malts.

 

[Brewsmith]

The recipe is not from the brewery. It’s from my LHBS.

https://barleyshomebrewing.com/beer-recipes-from-barleys/all-grain-recipes/
It’s the recipe called Fast Tug. I’ll modify it to reduce the crystal malts.

Looking at the recipe, the FG of 1.018 looks about right. Go ahead and brew it as it is written. I just didn’t want you to expect that it was going to finish at 1.012. That definitely looks like an old school IPA recipe from 20 years ago.

If I was doing this for me, I’d at least cut the C30 in half and back down the caramunich down a little. If the color isn’t dark enough, you could always add a ounce or two of carafa special or even chocolate malt.

 

[bracconiere]

Looking at the recipe, the FG of 1.018 looks about right. Go ahead and brew it as it is written. I just didn’t want you to expect that it was going to finish at 1.012. That definitely looks like an old school IPA recipe from 20 years ago.

If I was doing this for me, I’d at least cut the C30 in half and back down the caramunich down a little. If the color isn’t dark enough, you could always add a ounce or two of carafa special or even chocolate malt.

are tastes are in aggrement.....i'd skip the choclate, and go for roast barley though....or even home toast some of the pale 2-row, just grab a SS pan and toast till you want to ****... and if any of your wives complain about that smell, tell them the preacher told you to love god above all others!

 

[Brewsmith]

are tastes are in aggrement.....i'd skip the choclate, and go for roast barley though....or even home toast some of the pale 2-row.

I ain’t mad at ya. All good and tasty ideas.

 

[bracconiere]

I ain’t mad at ya.

the first sign of trouble in a relationship!

 

[oakbarn]

I just connected several 10K NTC Probes to my BruControl (BruControl – Process Automation Made Personal)setup and have yet to calibrate them.

Notice that the Big Mac Temp upper Right is 66.1. All the probes are in the same environment so should read the same. Are all the others wrong and the Big Mac correct? You could assume the others are correct, but you may be wrong. If the delta is 3 degrees and you are supposed to be Mashing at 154 and actually at 157, that would make a difference. Because they are all uncalibrated, they could ALL be wrong (and are likely a little off.

For the Mash, I would calibrate the Mash Return and the MLT Out at 148,. 150, 151, 152, 153, 154, 155, 156, 157, 158, and 168. These I would want very accurate, I would also calibrate my Radiator at 155 as it is the hot water bath for the modified HERMS.

The MASH Return and MLT Out are calibrated at Mash Temps (Precisely) and Strike Temp (roughly). The Radiator is a Rough one just at 155.

BruControl (BruControl – Process Automation Made Personal)allows that type of correction.

 

[Bobby_M]

With such a high original gravity should I maybe pitch 2 packs of liquid yeast? I’ve never done that before but have read that it may be necessary for high gravity beers. I’m planning to use Imperial Flagship yeast.

​

No one picked up on this question yet so I'll chime in. This calculation is based on Imperial's advertised 200B cell count per pack advertisement. I took a guess that the packaging date would be December 6th, or one month old which is probably optimistic.

If the pack really is a month old, you can get away with 2 packs because 3 is a bit of an overpitch.

You can also use one pack and stir a 2 liter starter.

Getting a little more realistic, if the pack is 3 months old. Ouch.

That's where having yeast starter equipment becomes more practical. Even at that age, you can still use a single pack to make a starter instead of buying 6-7 packs.

The moral of this story is that if you're able to buy the yeast in person, you can at least look at the dates to see if you want to buy extra. If you mailorder your yeast, you almost HAVE to have a stir plate, flask and some DME on hand because you discover the package date on arrival.

 

[Geezer-Glide]

I mentioned stratification in an earlier post. So, yesterday while brewing I had a chance to check my mash from top to bottom of the malt pipe. I used a Fluke 54 II B and ran the (waterproof) thermocouple from top to bottom of the mash. I saw a Delta T of over 15 degrees (F) with my circulation pump OFF. With the pump operating it was much closer to set point In both locations.

Just wondering if the high Delta T was a function of the metal malt pipe insulating the mash from the bottom heating element or something else I’m not seeing. In my normal operating mode I recirculate the wort both through the malt pipe and directly into the kettle.

Any thoughts? I have a brewing bag around here somewhere. I might have to try that instead of the SS malt pipe.

 

[balrog]

(is degrees litner or degrees lovibond too? )

Lovibond is the color
Litner is the diastatic power to convert starch to sugars.

 

[bracconiere]

Lovibond is the color
Litner is the diastatic power to convert starch to sugars.

i know that.... lol


just not sure when to hit the alt-0176 shortcut, both, or just the litner?

 

[IslandLizard]

°

just not sure when to hit the alt-0176 shortcut, both, or just the litner?

Alt-0176 on both, they're degrees.

Litner is the diastatic power

It's actually °Lintner.
(2 n's)