Can’t make up my mind about priming technique! Help!?!

[Indyking]

So, I finished my first extract brew yesterday and fermentation seems to be going very well. Lots of bubbling in the airlock a couple of hours later! I started with basic pale ale. I used the coopers brewing equipment kit, which has a very nice fermenter but as far as priming and bottling when fermentation is finished, I can’t make up my mind, so maybe you guys can help me to decide!

The coopers fermenter has a bottle filler that attaches to its spigot and fills their 750ml reusable plastic bottles (with screw caps) containing 2 carbonation drops in each for carbonation (hard sugar drops), so no need for bottling bucket; however, this is optimized to use with their kit ingredients. I feel like I could ruin my extract beer if I use the same set up because I don’t know if the coopers carbonation drops contain adequate sugar for my recipe. So, to use the sugar recommended in my recipe, I have a couple of options:

1) Buy a bottling bucket and siphon kit and transfer the fermented beer to the bottling bucket containing the priming solution recommended in my recipe (dissolved corn sugar). Then, I can just bottle using the coopers plastic bottles, or buy glass bottles with lids and a capper. I could also possibly, instead of buying a siphon kit, just buy a hose that fits the spigot in my coopers fermenter and use that to transfer the beer to the bottling bucket, saving a couple of dollars in the process.
2) Just add priming solution recommended in my recipe in the coppers fermenter, mix it gently to avoid oxidation and to avoid resuspending the sediment too much, and proceed with bottling without using a bottling bucket since the coopers fermenter already has the spigot and bottle filler.
3) Instead of using carbonation drops in the plastic bottles, I could use prime tab (corn sugar tablets) in glass bottles. Prime tab has recommendations for number of tablets per bottle depending on the bottle size of course, but I don’t know if doing that would be any different from just using coopers carbonation drops with their plastic bottles.

So, 1, 2, 3, or none of the above? Suggestions?

 

[Revvy]

Go to a hardware store and get a translucent or white bucket...but look for one where the 5 gallon mark falls way below the top of the bucket. Usually it will say 5 gallons at 3rd band from the top. (oh get the lid too....I totally regret not getting it when I did.)

Then get a spigot and make a dedicated bottling bucket. It really defeats the purpose of both a long primary/no secondary or a secondary if you have to stir up all the nice sediment you patiently waited to settle just so you can have consistent carbonation.

Mine is the translucent Leaktite brand 5 gallon container with the gallon and liter markings from Homedepot.

Here's a pic of mine from my bottling thread.

You'll find a ton of good info here to make bottling easier.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/revvys-tips-bottler-first-time-otherwise-94812/

Bulk priming is more precise than adding sugar tablets or table sugar in the bottles.

 

[Indyking]

Then get a spigot and make a dedicated bottling bucket. It really defeats the purpose of both a long primary/no secondary or a secondary if you have to stir up all the nice sediment you patiently waited to settle just so you can have consistent carbonation.

Mine is the translucent Leaktite brand 5 gallon container with the gallon and liter markings from Homedepot.

Here's a pic of mine from my bottling thread.

You'll find a ton of good info here to make bottling easier.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/revvys-tips-bottler-first-time-otherwise-94812/

Bulk priming is more precise than adding sugar tablets or table sugar in the bottles.

Thanks a lot for the info Revvy. I see you use an autosiphon to trasnfer the beer to the bottling bucket. I wonder if the autosiphon will attach well to my coopers fermenter, which has a very distinct shape compared to a regular fementer bucket.

I'm thinking about just buying a hose and connecting it to the spigot in the coppers fermenter instead of buying a siphon for transfer. The coppers fermenter spigot is set higher with a special configuration to prevent sediment from going through. Would that work?

 

[Revvy]

Thanks a lot for the info Revvy. I see you use an autosiphon to trasnfer the beer to the bottling bucket. I wonder if the autosiphon will attach well to my coopers fermenter, which has a very distinct shape compared to a regular fementer bucket.

I'm thinking about just buying a hose and connecting it to the spigot in the coppers fermenter instead of buying a siphon for transfer. The coppers fermenter spigot is set higher with a special configuration to prevent sediment from going through. Would that work?

The trouble with coming from the bottom (i.e. through a spigot) is that you will get a lot of whatever settles on the bottom of the fermenter transfored over into your bottling bucket (or secondary if you are racking) by coming from above with an autosiphon you can can control the amount of trub coming through by lifting the autosiphon off the bottom, OR even by clipping it so it is slightly above the trub layer, and lowering it down as you are almost done.

Most of the time your spigot is sitting RIGHT in the trub layer and that will come out first before beer does.

 

[Indyking]

The trouble with coming from the bottom (i.e. through a spigot) is that you will get a lot of whatever settles on the bottom of the fermenter transfored over into your bottling bucket (or secondary if you are racking) by coming from above with an autosiphon you can can control the amount of trub coming through by lifting the autosiphon off the bottom, OR even by clipping it so it is slightly above the trub layer, and lowering it down as you are almost done.

Most of the time your spigot is sitting RIGHT in the trub layer and that will come out first before beer does.

I know, but like I said before, the coopers fermenter is really nice in the way that its spigot is high (about 2 inches from the bottom) and had a upper slit opening that prevents the sediment from draining out. I actually think if I can adapt a hose to the its spigot, it will do a much better job than using a siphon because I can keep the fermenter closed all the time. There are 2 problems though: 1- I'm not sure I can find a hose that will fit the fermenter's spigot and 2-the spigot in the coopers fermenter is so high that it actually wastes too much beer that still could be drained without the risk of getting sediment.

 

[Revvy]

I know, but like I said before, the coopers fermenter is really nice in the way that its spigot is high (about 2 inches from the bottom) and had a upper slit opening that prevents the sediment from draining out. I actually think if I can adapt a hose to the its spigot, it will do a much better job than using a siphon because I can keep the fermenter closed all the time. There are 2 problems though: 1- I'm not sure I can find a hose that will fit the fermenter's spigot and 2-the spigot in the coopers fermenter is so high that it actually wastes too much beer that still could be drained without the risk of getting sediment.

If it's high you can try to use a dip tube similar to what I show in my bottling thread. That also will limit the trub coming out. BUT I think you'd have to have that pre-installed prior to fermentation. Like I said, a bottling bucket is simpler, Imho.

 

[KevinW]

I know, but like I said before, the coopers fermenter is really nice in the way that its spigot is high (about 2 inches from the bottom) and had a upper slit opening that prevents the sediment from draining out. I actually think if I can adapt a hose to the its spigot, it will do a much better job than using a siphon because I can keep the fermenter closed all the time. There are 2 problems though: 1- I'm not sure I can find a hose that will fit the fermenter's spigot and 2-the spigot in the coopers fermenter is so high that it actually wastes too much beer that still could be drained without the risk of getting sediment.

I am thinking you may want to take Revvy's advice on this one! It is a little bit of money upfront but it is equipment that will make your bottling day soooo much easier!

Autosiphon, bottling bucket with spigot, and bottling wand three definite should haves for bottling!

Just my opinion though!

 

[ChshreCat]

And if you haven't seen it before or in Revvy's bottling thread, the best place to put your bottling bucket is on the counter above the dish washer. Open the door of the dish washer and use that as a platform to bottle on. Then when you're done, just close the dishwasher up and all the spills (there will be spills, trust me) disappear into the dishwasher. No mess!

 

[KevinW]

Here's a pic of mine from my bottling thread.

You'll find a ton of good info here to make bottling easier.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/revvys-tips-bottler-first-time-otherwise-94812/

Bulk priming is more precise than adding sugar tablets or table sugar in the bottles.

Revvy, is that a standard bottling wand? It looks like it's two feet long!

Your wand looks a lot bigger than mine(oh no, I said it) LOL

 

[Revvy]

Revvy, is that a standard bottling wand? It looks like it's two feet long!

Your wand looks a lot bigger than mine(oh no, I said it) LOL

No, I think it's standard....I've had forever. I believe that it is fermtechs? It fits even wine and champagne bottles.

 

[Indyking]

I am thinking you may want to take Revvy's advice on this one! It is a little bit of money upfront but it is equipment that will make your bottling day soooo much easier!

Autosiphon, bottling bucket with spigot, and bottling wand three definite should haves for bottling!

Just my opinion though!

Like I said, a bottling bucket is simpler, Imho.

I think you guys are right. I don't mind doing some investment as long as I’m sure it is the best option... the only thing about siphons though is that, to me, it's just so much air and environment exposure that I wonder why most people don't have problems with it. With siphons, we have to keep the fermenter and the bottling bucket opened during the entire transfer, which seems like a long time to be exposed. I guess it’s not a big deal.

 

[Revvy]

I think you guys are right. I don't mind doing some investment as long as I’m sure it is the best option... the only thing about siphons though is that, to me, it's just so much air and environment exposure that I wonder why most people don't have problems with it. With siphons, we have to keep the fermenter and the bottling bucket opened during the entire transfer, which seems like a long time to be exposed. I guess it’s not a big deal.

Because you beer is hardier than most NEW brewers think it is. It takes a LOT of 02 to damage to harm your beer. Years ago in a basic brewing podcast someone, either chris colby of byo magazine or John Palmer said that you practically have to pump an entire red oxygen bottle like you use to aerate your wort into already fermented beer, to actually cause harm to the beer. Our beer can take a lot of the "normal" things we do like racking and even most accidents as well and our beer turns out fine.

Besides when you are siphoning fermented beer you are siphoning the co2 with it. AND since you are coming from the bottom of the liquid (where there should be little 02 to begin with) into the BOTTOM of the next vessel or bottle, the beer is actually having little contact with air. That's why we fill or rack from the bottom, and NOT from high up in the vessel, so it's not falling through air to begin with.

Besides 02 damage doesn't usually manifest itself right away, most of the time oxydation is a storage issue. Most of us will long have consumed the beer before they began to manifest the symptoms of oxydation.

As long as you are careful, you won't have any problems. If it were so harmful to our beer, this wouldn't BE the primary way of transporting beer, through gravity and siphons.....

 

[ChshreCat]

+1

You're going to have to try a lot harder than that to ruin your beer.

 

[Revvy]

+1

You're going to have to try a lot harder than that to ruin your beer.

Yup!!!

And that's why I have this thread for the nervous newbs.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/wh...where-your-beer-still-turned-out-great-96780/

 

[Indyking]

Because you beer is hardier than most NEW brewers think it is. It takes a LOT of 02 to damage to harm your beer. Years ago in a basic brewing podcast someone, either chris colby of byo magazine or John Palmer said that you practically have to pump an entire red oxygen bottle like you use to aerate your wort into already fermented beer, to actually cause harm to the beer. Our beer can take a lot of the "normal" things we do like racking and even most accidents as well and our beer turns out fine.

Besides when you are siphoning fermented beer you are siphoning the co2 with it. AND since you are coming from the bottom of the liquid (where there should be little 02 to begin with) into the BOTTOM of the next vessel or bottle, the beer is actually having little contact with air. That's why we fill or rack from the bottom, and NOT from high up in the vessel, so it's not falling through air to begin with.

Besides 02 damage doesn't usually manifest itself right away, most of the time oxydation is a storage issue. Most of us will long have consumed the beer before they began to manifest the symptoms of oxydation.

As long as you are careful, you won't have any problems. If it were so harmful to our beer, this wouldn't BE the primary way of transporting beer, through gravity and siphons.....

I agree... thanks again! I will get the autosiphon and the bottling bucket.

Also, thinking about moving to glass bottles, probably the 22 oz ones. Even though a lot of people will say it's OK to keep reusing my coppers plastic bottles, there are really mixed opinions about how well they carbonate the beer. Besides, I probably will keep my beer for a while, up to 1 year or so, because I would like to have different styles available instead of batching one style and drink it all before moving to the next one. Do you use glass or plastic?

 

[Revvy]

I agree... thanks again! I will get the autosiphon and the bottling bucket.

Also, thinking about moving to glass bottles, probably the 22 oz ones. Even though a lot of people will say it's OK to keep reusing my coppers plastic bottles, there are really mixed opinions about how well they carbonate the beer. Besides, I usually keep beer for a while, up to 1 year or so, because I like to have different styles available instead of batching one style and drink it all before moving to the next one. Do you use glass or plastic?

I use glass. I still have the mr beer plastic bottles but I haven't used them in years. I like bottle caps. And don't mind capping either. Plus there are really cool bottles out there, in all different sizes and shapes. I keep all sorts on hand besides the basic one. Like hoegaarden bottles.

I have 2 cases full for bottling my wits in.

 

[Indyking]

I use glass. I still have the mr beer plastic bottles but I haven't used them in years. I like bottle caps. And don't mind capping either. Plus there are really cool bottles out there, in all different sizes and shapes. I keep all sorts on hand besides the basic one. Like hoegaarden bottles.

I have 2 cases full for bottling my wits in.

I see, so do you keep the cool bottles from empty commercial beers? I suppose caps and capper work on most of them? I like the Heineken bottle.

 

[ChshreCat]

I have a bunch of hoegaarden bottles as well but I stopped using them. My wing capper just doesn't like the shape of the neck on 'em! I'm still saving them for when I get a bench capper though.

There's beers I've bought just because I thought it would be cool to re-use the bottles.

 

[Revvy]

I see, so do you keep the cool bottles from empty commercial beers? I suppose caps and capper work on most of them? I like the Heineken bottle.

Most bottles that accept crown caps will work for homebrew. SOme may need a different bell, and different sized crowns, but 99% of the ones I have come up with (except sierra nevadas- see below) Even Bud american ale bottles work (another favorite of mine-bottles that is)

I have a bunch of hoegaarden bottles as well but I stopped using them. My wing capper just doesn't like the shape of the neck on 'em! I'm still saving them for when I get a bench capper though.

There's beers I've bought just because I thought it would be cool to re-use the bottles.

I never had that problem with my red baron wing capper. Hmmmm.

Sierra Nevada squat bottles on the other hand.

 

[ChshreCat]

My favorite bottles to save are the costco Kirkland brand "handcrafted beer" bottles. The beer isn't bad for the price and the labels come right off after a short soak.

 

[tvtoms]

I have the coopers equipment kit too and I can tell you how I've expanded is pretty much the same as you're being advised. My first batch I bottled with the fermenter spigot and all the coopers stuff and it worked out fine. I didnt get too much of any sediment in my bottles at all, even tipping the fermenter to get the last drops out. The stiffly mounted bottling wand made the tipping a little awkward by the way.

I did buy a regular bottling setup before long. Siphon, bottling bucket, corn sugar and some glass bottles etc.. It works great, and I actually like having the bottling wand with a short length of tube. I also bought a few six packs of sam adams and those bottles work great too.

The coopers carbonation drops are sucrose so one thing you can consider (like I am) is possibly weighing out the proper amount for priming the batch and dissolve them in a cup of boiling water as you normally would do with corn sugar(dextrose). The priming rates for sucrose and dextrose are almost the same anyway.

The PET bottles I'm not too keen on. I have used and am still using them as needed when I run out of glass. I have 6 of them carbing up right now along with my 22oz, 12oz and a few 16oz ez cap bottles. The dimpled bottom actually makes it hard to set the bottling wand down where it's flat! And half the time, there's a plastic sprue right there too, and you wind up fiddling around with each darn one just filling it. When they're empty, a slight breeze will blow them over. And to top off the "jeers", the opening of them is wider than glass and the material thinner, so using a Sulfiter/Vinator to sanitize them safely requires you to sort of lean them and press carefully while holding them around the neck. So.. for me they'll probably get used for root beer soon.

I think the bottling gear upgrade is exactly the right way to go. You can use some of the plastic bottles if needed, and adding to your system then is as easy as buying another fermenter bucket and airlock.

 

[Indyking]

I have the coopers equipment kit too and I can tell you how I've expanded is pretty much the same as you're being advised. My first batch I bottled with the fermenter spigot and all the coopers stuff and it worked out fine. I didnt get too much of any sediment in my bottles at all, even tipping the fermenter to get the last drops out. The stiffly mounted bottling wand made the tipping a little awkward by the way.

I did buy a regular bottling setup before long. Siphon, bottling bucket, corn sugar and some glass bottles etc.. It works great, and I actually like having the bottling wand with a short length of tube. I also bought a few six packs of sam adams and those bottles work great too.

The coopers carbonation drops are sucrose so one thing you can consider (like I am) is possibly weighing out the proper amount for priming the batch and dissolve them in a cup of boiling water as you normally would do with corn sugar(dextrose). The priming rates for sucrose and dextrose are almost the same anyway.

The PET bottles I'm not too keen on. I have used and am still using them as needed when I run out of glass. I have 6 of them carbing up right now along with my 22oz, 12oz and a few 16oz ez cap bottles. The dimpled bottom actually makes it hard to set the bottling wand down where it's flat! And half the time, there's a plastic sprue right there too, and you wind up fiddling around with each darn one just filling it. When they're empty, a slight breeze will blow them over. And to top off the "jeers", the opening of them is wider than glass and the material thinner, so using a Sulfiter/Vinator to sanitize them safely requires you to sort of lean them and press carefully while holding them around the neck. So.. for me they'll probably get used for root beer soon.

I think the bottling gear upgrade is exactly the right way to go. You can use some of the plastic bottles if needed, and adding to your system then is as easy as buying another fermenter bucket and airlock.

Thanks, that's exactly what I'm going to do for upgrading it. It's good to know somebody else has done the same with sucess. I'm not a big fan of the pet bottles either...