Campaign for Real IPA (CAMRIPA?)

[GPP33]

I've tried but I just can't drink New England IPAs. I gave them a fair shot but they taste like fruit juice. Now I know that's kinda the point but I prefer my beer to actually taste and look like beer. The NEIPAs I've had weren't bad, they just weren't refreshing like a beer should be, it was more like I was sipping on my kids drink. Also, I know the flavor and aroma is almost completely hops but it's just not a hop flavor I enjoy all that much, they don't taste like an IPA hop tastes or small like an IPA hop smells. To each their own, I'm not going to dis what you like or try to convince you of what I like but I thought I'd leave you with this. The house you can see through the glass is about 500 feet away. I'll take my IPAs non hazy, bitter and hoppy (the good kind), just like the boys and girls on the west coast designed the stolen beer style to be. Oh, and session IPAs suck too!

 

[SanPancho]

This you?

 

[anotherbeerplease]

Is that your homebrew? Nice clarity. Hazy's awesome and standard IPAs are rad too! Equal opportunity lover of all IPAs here.

 

[Gravitysucks]

I have to agree. Maybe it's because I'm old and hate change but,after 30 or so years of drinking English IPAs, Pales, and bitters that were actually brewed in the U.K., I don't find American versions of those styles to be very representative. This seems to be especially true with IPAs and I question if American brewers have a clue what an IPA actually is.(of course the term IPA is actually a bit ambiguous even in the U.K. so there is some wiggle room but nothing like the liberties that American brewers take with the style).

I think we are up to around 80 craft breweries here in Maine where I live and I've sampled so called IPA's from a large number of them. Maybe it's because with so many breweries they feel the need to change things up to differentiate from each other but I've yet to find one that actually tastes like an IPA. Honestly, I think the only American brewed IPA I've had that seemed to hit on the English IPA style was on a trip to Ashland Oregon back in 1996. I spent a number of nights at the Rogue brew pub (Sadly, about a week after I left Ashland a flood destroyed the place and many other Ashland businesses) and they had a great IPA that reminded me of Samuel Smith's India Ale or maybe Bass back when it was still imported. Maybe age has destroyed my taste buds and olfactory senses but I still find Sam Smith's that's sat of the shelves for who knows how long and Bass that's now brewed in New Hampshire and tastes quite different from what used to be imported to be preferable to most of the craft beer I've found.

Of course this is just an old guy's opinion so please take it with a grain of salt.

 

[divrack]

And another thing... Why is everyone always moving about so quickly these days in their loud clothing and saying cuss words, darn this blimey that etc etc.
I remember when kids would respect their elders, cats would respect dogs, mice would respect cats and toads and frogs would keep a respectful distance from each other aware of the natural boundaries of this our godly Earth.
And what is this new fad for roller skates I ask you? If god had wanted us to go to roller discos he would have invented the wheel and bell bottoms himself. Long haired hep cats. No good beatnicks.

You Americans don't know the first thing about beer. It should be served Luke warm and slightly off and the flavour should match the carpeted interior of the pub.

Black ipas! I'll give you a black eye pa Sonny my lad I will.
Get away from my apples hoodulum ye.

 

[divrack]

In fairness a lot of breweries are making shitty neipas. If it's not fresh you might as well chuck it.
My fresh out the keg shiznick is goood.
My gripe was with the preposterously bitter West coast ipas that were coming out a few years back, everyone thinking it was like a chilli eating contest going to the pub. And I have some linguistical problems with some of the categories coming out of the need for everything to have IPA in it's name. Don't be an oxymoron ok kids?
Black IPA session IPA etc. No.

 

[Miraculix]

I've tried but I just can't drink New England IPAs. I gave them a fair shot but they taste like fruit juice. Now I know that's kinda the point but I prefer my beer to actually taste and look like beer. The NEIPAs I've had weren't bad, they just weren't refreshing like a beer should be, it was more like I was sipping on my kids drink. Also, I know the flavor and aroma is almost completely hops but it's just not a hop flavor I enjoy all that much, they don't taste like an IPA hop tastes or small like an IPA hop smells. To each their own, I'm not going to dis what you like or try to convince you of what I like but I thought I'd leave you with this. The house you can see through the glass is about 500 feet away. I'll take my IPAs non hazy, bitter and hoppy (the good kind), just like the boys and girls on the west coast designed the stolen beer style to be. Oh, and session IPAs suck too!

So what does a good ipa taste like according to your own standards?

I prefer mine without any Crystal but with MO, maybe some Munich or Vienna or if not with those two, then with my favorite, chevallier.

Hopped with something neutral @60 min and getting the flavour only from noble European hops like saaz or mittelfrüh as late and flame out additions plus dry.

 

[arctic78]

Water, Hops(lots of) ,Grain and yeast ......Lets call it an IPA (traditional)

 

[GPP33]

Is that your homebrew? Nice clarity. Hazy's awesome and standard IPAs are rad too! Equal opportunity lover of all IPAs here.

Yep, packaged in a keg a little over two weeks ago. They pretty much all drop clear though this one exceptionally so. The problem is keeping it around that long. I actually don’t mind typical haze, just get turned off by NEIPA level haze.

So what does a good ipa taste like according to your own standards?

I prefer mine without any Crystal but with MO, maybe some Munich or Vienna or if not with those two, then with my favorite, chevallier.

Hopped with something neutral @60 min and getting the flavour only from noble European hops like saaz or mittelfrüh as late and flame out additions plus dry.

Most of my IPAs are MO with maybe some Munich and oats. This one obviously has some crystal, not much but I think a little much for my preference. As for hops, moderately bitter ~60-70 IBUs in Beer Smith though I don’t think I ever actually get that, at least compared to commercial brews that claim these levels. Finish hops are NW varieties, this one is mostly Cascade with a little Citra cryo added in the dry hop.

 

[Miraculix]

Yep, packaged in a keg a little over two weeks ago. They pretty much all drop clear though this one exceptionally so. The problem is keeping it around that long. I actually don’t mind typical haze, just get turned off by NEIPA level haze.



Most of my IPAs are MO with maybe some Munich and oats. This one obviously has some crystal, not much but I think a little much for my preference. As for hops, moderately bitter ~60-70 IBUs in Beer Smith though I don’t think I ever actually get that, at least compared to commercial brews that claim these levels. Finish hops are NW varieties, this one is mostly Cascade with a little Citra cryo added in the dry hop.

Sounds like I would like it. If you haven't yet, I'd really recommend trying out chevallier malt as long as it is available. Simple grist, 60% Mo, 40% chevallier, no oats or Crystal needed, chevallier does their job perfectly on its own.

 

[GPP33]

Sounds like I would like it. If you haven't yet, I'd really recommend trying out chevallier malt as long as it is available. Simple grist, 60% Mo, 40% chevallier, no oats or Crystal needed, chevallier does their job perfectly on its own.

I might try to find some chevallier for my next IPA.

 

[SanPancho]

I think its odd that you seem to expect UK style ipa to be the norm here. I would never expect to get real neapolitan style pizza from dominos or pizza hut, mexican at taco bell or chipotle, or chinese at Panda Express.

If every culture takes “new” things and uses them, tweaks them, eventually making it their own, then finding the “real” version SHOULD be difficult outside its birthplace.

As far as west coast versions, the crystal-heavy versions from the likes of rogue, redhook, elysian etc were more of a NW style than really west coast, as i recall. I feel like west coast became the standard when it lost the crystal and got drier and crisper.

Then over the past decade as the tropical and fruity hops came on the scene en mass we veer towards styles that can showcase them. Its the obvious and natural evolution.

Ill drink them all. And most Americans would say if you dont like them, more for us. All you can really do is find your favorite brewery and support them like hell.

Or just keep brewing your own.

Post a recipe of your uk ipa for us. You never know, you might get a few converts.

 

[GPP33]

I think its odd that you seem to expect UK style ipa to be the norm here. I would never expect to get real neapolitan style pizza from dominos or pizza hut, mexican at taco bell or chipotle, or chinese at Panda Express.

If every culture takes “new” things and uses them, tweaks them, eventually making it their own, then finding the “real” version SHOULD be difficult outside its birthplace.

As far as west coast versions, the crystal-heavy versions from the likes of rogue, redhook, elysian etc were more of a NW style than really west coast, as i recall. I feel like west coast became the standard when it lost the crystal and got drier and crisper.

Then over the past decade as the tropical and fruity hops came on the scene en mass we veer towards styles that can showcase them. Its the obvious and natural evolution.

Ill drink them all. And most Americans would say if you dont like them, more for us. All you can really do is find your favorite brewery and support them like hell.

Or just keep brewing your own.

Post a recipe of your uk ipa for us. You never know, you might get a few converts.

Was that directed at me or Gravitysucks? Mine isn’t a U.K. IPA, at least not as far as I know. It’s more representative of a west coast/NW IPA, the style that spawned my love of craft beer and eventually Home Brewing. It’s nothing special, just a good clean hoppy beer like 10,000 others out there on the shelf. Not trying to convert anyone, you drink what you like and I’ll drink what I like and we can toast to that. I was just so excited to have my style of IPA in my hand after drinking a NEIPA the night before and going to bed completely unsatisfied.

 

[plazola86]

I really like both styles but a lot of breweries are jumping on the NE IPA bandwagon for the looks. Just because they look hazy doesn't make them taste good. I've had really bad NE IPA attempts from numerous breweries but I've also had really good ones. Honestly more bad than good, most breweries just don't do them justice. When you do have a good one though it will bring a smile to your face.

 

[Brewddah]

I love "NEIPAs", but I think they shouldn't be called IPAs at all. I like the idea of "New England Ale." Really, these beers have few of the characteristics of an American IPA or British IPA. Most of the hops are late addition, they're hazy, not as bitter, and include malts/adjuncts that IPAs don't usually use. When it comes down to it, they have not much in common except hops.

 

[GPP33]

I love "NEIPAs", but I think they shouldn't be called IPAs at all. I like the idea of "New England Ale." Really, these beers have few of the characteristics of an American IPA or British IPA. Most of the hops are late addition, they're hazy, not as bitter, and include malts/adjuncts that IPAs don't usually use. When it comes down to it, they have not much in common except hops.

Thank you sir!

 

[GPP33]

When you do have a good one though it will bring a smile to your face.

I’ve had at least one that’s supposed to be very good, Weld Works Juicy Bits. It was good, just didn’t do it for me.

 

[motosapiens]

I love "NEIPAs", but I think they shouldn't be called IPAs at all. I like the idea of "New England Ale." Really, these beers have few of the characteristics of an American IPA or British IPA. Most of the hops are late addition, they're hazy, not as bitter, and include malts/adjuncts that IPAs don't usually use. When it comes down to it, they have not much in common except hops.

I call mine 'juicy pale ale'. It's become my favorite style, but..... like most other styles, I find that 95% of commercial examples are not nearly as good as my own. The last few years I've started to lose interest in visiting breweries because the beer is so 'meh'.

 

[madscientist451]

like most other styles, I find that 95% of commercial examples are not nearly as good as my own. The last few years I've started to lose interest in visiting breweries because the beer is so 'meh'.

I agree, I'm thinking: "why am I sitting here paying $6 a glass for some mediocre brew when I have better stuff at home"?
As to why they call them NEIPA's....its a selling point. People like IPA's and they sell well. If they called it "cloudy, fruity, hop flavor but low bitterness American Ale" the sales numbers just wouldn't be as good.
Some NEIPA's are actually pretty darn good, it just depends on what individual flavors you like or don't like.
I'm working on a mango/guava/tangerine NEIPA with Mosaic hops. I like that flavor combination, but like all things, its not for everyone.

 

[kh54s10]

I base my brewing on beers that I like. So far that is everything except BMC beers, Sours, I haven't found an inexpensive on to try, and don't want to dedicate equipment just for them, and commercial NEIPA's. I haven't seen that many and the ones that I have tried were mediocre at best.

I may try to brew one some day but so far I just don't get it.

 

[grampamark]

I've always been something of an iconoclast. "Style" is a relative term, to me. It's probably fair to say that I am not a purist, whether with regard to beer or anything else.

If I try a new-to-me beer, or recipe, I'll probably buy or brew it again. It doesn't matter what the beer is called; if I like it it's good.

I've tried several different NEIPAs, some from "commercial" craft brewers, some from local brewpubs. All of them tasted pretty good; a couple really stood out (New Belgium's Juicy Haze and a beer called Twizzle from Überbrew in Billings, MT). None of them were similar enough to consider them the same style, however. Which brings me back to the "if I like it it's good" comment. Unless you're entering a competition or trying to market a beer to the public, giving something a label doesn't really matter.

Obviously, YMMV.

 

[Boomer]

I prefer my beer to actually taste and look like beer.

I made a NEIPA recently and used water, hops, barley, and yeast. Did I do something wrong?

It's just funny to me because how do you quantify this? Take, for instance, a Russian Imperial Stout vs. a Pale Ale. Both are beer. They look and taste totally different. I get what you're saying, I'm just pointing out that stating that a NEIPA doesn't look or taste like beer is abstract, at best.

 

[stz]

An awful lot of the NEIPA's I drink here are actually quite heavy and boozy. They can have hot solvent flavours and they taste like they have crystal in them as a side effect of large amounts of english base malt. Tons of everything. The ones that don't age so well get malt forward real fast. A lot seemly don't pick up the diacetyl honking off them. You have to work quite hard to get them soft, pale and full bodied without malt character at 6%+ here it would seem. As a brewer I'm into clean fermentation, accuracy, repeatability, appropriate shelf life, happy brew schedule, the basics. This seems to be flying out the window in favour of shovelling more citra and mosaic into beers and the commercial examples aren't always great.

The ones that taste like fruity water are more pale ale than IPA. Session IPA gets thrown around a lot, but they still have bite because it is almost impossible to stir in that much citra and mosaic and not get 30-40IBU's. They are naturally hazy pale ales to me, session IPA's at a push. Water treatment is more important than you'd think, soft mouthfeel from soft liquor, sweetness from chloride (NOT CRYSTAL!).

Making beer commercially means being commercial. It is tempting to jump on a band wagon, but you've got to know what you are doing with the equipment to successfully package these beers and give them a shelf life. The public is crying out for mosaic. Everyone is always 'make it juicy', you've no idea how sick I am of citra and mosaic. 'Make it like that, but can we use something other than citra and mosaic so it stands out? Also can it be juicer? Also cheaper?'.

Ideal for me is 4.2-4.7%. Knock nearly all the rA out of the water with your acidic libation of choice. Use sulphate and chloride to give a 1:2 ratio, get calcium up over 100ppm and your mash pH right, but try and keep the chloride below 200ppm unless you want to feel it on the teeth. Palest dullest base malt you can get. Touch of vienna, touch of flaked oats, dextrine malt for keg beers and the lower abv ones to enhance body. Use a medium attenuating yeast and mash to give about 70% attenuation, but I'm never mashing warm, use more dextrine or different yeast if that is a concern. Bitter to 30-40IBU's with a whirlpool addition alone. Ferment with a free rise to desired temperature approx 48-72hr with a blow off tube, dump as much yeast as you dare and dry hop 8-12g/L as close to final gravity as you can catch it to scavenge any oxygen introduced sealing tank and allowing it to spund at 10-12psi. Raise the temperature 2C for diacetyl rest. Carefully rouse with co2 every day for the next 48hr chill to 16C and dump hop slurry morning and night for the next 48hr. Chill to 0C over 24hr, dump slurry and transfer under pressure to a clean vessel holding at 0C for carbonation and to package. Package off a racking port avoiding any yeast or pellet slurry in the cone.

 

[kevin58]

There are plenty of styles that I don't find enjoyment in either but I won't go raining on someone else's parade just because they've found something they are passionate about. One time a music journalist was baiting David Bowie to say something bad about another singer. Bowie replied, "I never begrudge an artist for finding an audience". The same sentiment applies here.

 

[plazola86]

There are plenty of styles that I don't find enjoyment in either but I won't go raining on someone else's parade just because they've found something they are passionate about. One time a music journalist was baiting David Bowie to say something bad about another singer. Bowie replied, "I never begrudge an artist for finding an audience". The same sentiment applies here.

Very well said. Even if you don't like the style how can you not be excited about all the new hops coming out, all the new whirl pooling and dry hopping techniques, bio transformation from certain yeast? I just don't get it, I'm more than excited to be a home brewer right now.

 

[Boomer]

Very well said. Even if you don't like the style how can you not be excited about all the new hops coming out, all the new whirl pooling and dry hopping techniques, bio transformation from certain yeast? I just don't get it, I'm more than excited to be a home brewer right now.

Agreed. And a consumer of said commercial beers.

 

[GPP33]

I made a NEIPA recently and used water, hops, barley, and yeast. Did I do something wrong?

It's just funny to me because how do you quantify this? Take, for instance, a Russian Imperial Stout vs. a Pale Ale. Both are beer. They look and taste totally different. I get what you're saying, I'm just pointing out that stating that a NEIPA doesn't look or taste like beer is abstract, at best.

Funny you say that. My mom always says "I like your stouts, they don't taste like beer". I always snap back that that's exactly what they taste like, they just don't taste like the type of beer you don't enjoy, beer comes in all shapes and sizes. NEIPAs taste like the style of beer they are, which is meant to taste like juice. I also say I don't like fruit beer because I like my beer to taste like beer, but I also know those taste like the type of beer they are meant to be, they just aren't the type of beer I like. I think for me it's just that if it tastes too much like fruit, be it a NEIPA or a raspberry wheat when I drink it I don't think "beer" I think "juice" and it confuses me.

There are plenty of styles that I don't find enjoyment in either but I won't go raining on someone else's parade just because they've found something they are passionate about. One time a music journalist was baiting David Bowie to say something bad about another singer. Bowie replied, "I never begrudge an artist for finding an audience". The same sentiment applies here.

It's all in good fun, more playfully ranting about why they decided "IPA" was a logical thing to include in the name of this style, not raining on anyone's parade and I realize a name is just a name. I had a meh NEIPA followed by an excellent example of what I enjoy in an IPA and just couldn't contain myself, I had to share....

 

[Gravitysucks]

And another thing... Why is everyone always moving about so quickly these days in their loud clothing and saying cuss words, darn this blimey that etc etc.
I remember when kids would respect their elders, cats would respect dogs, mice would respect cats and toads and frogs would keep a respectful distance from each other aware of the natural boundaries of this our godly Earth.
And what is this new fad for roller skates I ask you? If god had wanted us to go to roller discos he would have invented the wheel and bell bottoms himself. Long haired hep cats. No good beatnicks.

You Americans don't know the first thing about beer. It should be served Luke warm and slightly off and the flavour should match the carpeted interior of the pub.

Black ipas! I'll give you a black eye pa Sonny my lad I will.
Get away from my apples hoodulum ye.

Point taken.
Apparently I've offended some folks and for that I apologize. I never meant to imply that American craft brewers don't make good beer and in fact there are many I find exceptional. I just question why when you have an established beer style like IPA that's been around for hundreds of years, admittedly with some changes, you would call something that doesn't resemble the stye an IPA.

 

[SanPancho]

Was that directed at me or Gravitysucks? Mine isn’t a U.K. IPA, at least not as far as I know. It’s more representative of a west coast/NW IPA, the style that spawned my love of craft beer and eventually Home Brewing. It’s nothing special, just a good clean hoppy beer like 10,000 others out there on the shelf. Not trying to convert anyone, you drink what you like and I’ll drink what I like and we can toast to that. I was just so excited to have my style of IPA in my hand after drinking a NEIPA the night before and going to bed completely unsatisfied.

My bad. Got posts confused.

Its funny. I wasn’t much of a West Coast ipa fan for the longest time. Just awash in the stuff around here, and never really liked it much. Folks were going too crazy with the ibus, totally unbalanced, even for ipa. Then at some point over past 5=10 years it seems to have mellowed a bit. I would still take a juicy fruit over a west coast, but only if i knew what i was getting. If i am unsure or unfamiliar with the beers, ill go West Coast since i find im more likely to end up satisfied. Hazy is like peaches, when theyre good they’re glorious, but otherwise i end up a bit disappointed.

And @Gravitysucks i agree with you in terms of the beers not having the same flavor components. C hops vs juicy fruit. Super dry vs soft and thick, etc. But i think maybe the reason is that for a lot of Americans/euros/and definitely Mexicans, and generally people who don’t necessarily homebrew or get super nerdy about beer, IPA just means hoppy beer. Whether or not it fits the style, its like ipa has just become shorthand for hoppy beer. So if you look at it that way, as opposed to the specific recipe components, it makes a little more sense why folks would consider the hazy stuff to be an ipa.

 

[divrack]

No need to apologise I agree with the principle if not with your tastes necessarily.
In the end it's all just, like, semantics dude