California (un)common - slow fermentation

[LagerJam]

Hi all! New here. Forum is awesome.

Brief history... this is my 10th batch ever, 4th all-grain, first lager (although it's not REALLY a lager), and first batch after a two year break.

Over those two years I forgot 90% of what I knew before, but I couldn't put it off any longer. I decided to "just brew it" and take my chances. I had to do something to get back into the game.

Bottom line: I made some mistakes, the main one probably being that I didn't make a starter -- so, yeah... underpitched.

Just to be safe I used 13lbs grain for a 5 gallon batch.

10 lbs Harring 2-row
2 lbs Briess 2-row 1.8L
1 lb US crystal 80L
Wyeast 2112

Since I like to make things as complicated as possible I mashed:

25 minutes @ 122F
45 minutes @ 140F
20 minutes @ 155F
Fermentation Temp: 63F

My goal was to make to make this high in fermentables and pretty low in unfermentables resulting in a beer that didn't leave a sticky malt residue in my mouth.

At any rate, here are the results:

OG - 1.059 (a bit too high I know)
SG - 1.042 @ one week, put in secondary
SG - 1.032 @ 13 days

Judging from the bubbles, it would appear that fermentation is still happening... very slowly.

Onto my questions:

1 - Albeit slow, is it possible that this will eventually ferment down to a reasonable gravity?

2 - If not, what should I do about it?

I don't mind waiting, but if it sounds bad, I'd like to try to fix it. Usually I don't panic and just let things sit for awhile, but for some reason, I'm freaking out.

 

[Yooper]

It might ferment all the way down. What temperature do you have it at? A lower temperature is great, but it takes longer.

Next time, make a big starter and DONT rack off the yeast until it's finished. Racking too early like you did will help to stall the fermentation. The yeast have to work much harder to ferment it, since so many of them were removed with racking.

For now, you can leave it alone and wait for it to finish. As long as it's fermenting, there isn't much to do.

 

[LagerJam]

Thanks for the reply.

It's fermenting @ 63F.

Racking actually seemed to speed up fermentation for awhile there. I read somewhere (I forgot where) that a professional brewer said to rack at high kraeusen, so I thought I'd try racking a bit sooner than usual. I missed high kraeusen however. I guess the idea is that during high kraeusen the yeast is still mostly suspended so you're not losing much yeast(?). In my case, probably too much had settled.

I have two other batches with the same yeast, so I'm going to go right now and check.

2nd batch - made a starter from yeast pack.
1.074->1.042 at day 3, ->1.042 at day 8
(I question the 1.074 reading... it was 1.052 before boil). I think I lost 1.5 gal from 6.

3rd batch - starter made from batch 1 trub, washed yeast:
1.052->1.042 at day 3

I guess I'll just let these sit and see what happens. Lesson learned regarding pitch rate.

 

[mr x]

This yeast can be slow at that temp. My first batch took 3 weeks in the primary. My second batch seemed done a bit less attenuated than I wanted, so I upped the temp to 67 degrees, and stir the yeast around daily. Rousing this yeast can help a lot. And being almost done, I didn't think increasing the temp will change the taste.

 

[LagerJam]

Thanks, I'll start the stirring now, and give it a bit more time.

If I don't see improvement, I'll maybe raise the temp.

 

[Yooper]

oh, no, I wouldn't stir it! You don't want to oxidize the beer!

I have made steam beer- and it's perfect at 62-63 degrees. Just be patient! It might two or three weeks to ferment out- and that's fine. After it was done, I put it in a colder place (in the low 50s) for a couple of weeks, and it was awesome!

 

[mr x]

You shouldn't oxidize the beer by resuspending the yeast as long as it is still fermenting. Just a gentle stir will do it. I do it all the time with highly flocculent yeast.

 

[Yooper]

Well, the ferment isn't slow because of the yeast flocculating- it's slow because no starter was used, and then it was racked. So, it's slow because the yeast have been stressed and most of them removed. The only fix for it is time- it WILL ferment, if it's left to do that. Changing the temperature isn't necessarily a fix- that yeast works best from 58-65 degrees. So, raising the temp above that will not be necessary.

We can agree to disagree here, I think! There isn't any "right" way to make beer and all of us have different ideas. I would never stir any beer or wine once the major part of the fermentation was underway. Others have different ways, and make great beer, too.

 

[mr x]

FYI, that was advice I got from Greg Doss at Wyeast for an under-attenuated beer:

"...it sounds like you're doing everything right. Keep it
warm and agitate every so often. Take gravities daily."

He thought that I may have underpitched/stressed my yeast in a similar situation to the OPs.

 

[Yooper]

That looks like good advice. I'm not disagreeing with it.

But, to me "agitating every so often" and stirring aren't the same. Agitating every so often to me means gently rocking the fermenter occasionally if the yeast is flocculated out. Stirring connotes opening up the fermenter and using a utensil to stir it. Keeping it warm to me means within the temperature desired by the yeast, not over-warm.

Also, the yeast isn't yet underattenuated- it hasn't been allowed to finish. If after two weeks, it's "stuck" and no longer fermenting, I'd consider it underattenuated.

Anyway, to each his own. Everybody does things a bit differently, and that's why we're here- to share ideas and experiences.

 

[mr x]

But, to me "agitating every so often" and stirring aren't the same.

As somebody who has done this, I can tell you that gently rocking a fermenter will not resuspend flocculated yeast. You would have to tip the fermenter on it's side and roll it. If you don't stir it, it just won't move off the bottom and have the desired effect. That's been my experience.

 

[LagerJam]

Nice discussion all around... certainly glad I asked.

I should add that I'm using a 6.5 gallon carboy, and not a bucket. Wouldn't the layer of co2 above the beer prevent oxygenation, even with opening it and stirring with a utensil?

I'm going to go ahead and leave it at 63F and just be patient for now... and maybe do a little stirring to see if that helps.

I appreciate all the feedback. Thanks!

 

[mr x]

I haven't had any oxygenation issues I could detect. So long as you don't froth the beer around roughly as you stir it, I think you should be fine as long as the beer isn't completely finished. It should release some CO2 and continued fermentation will purge out the O2.

 

[mr x]

I'm going to go ahead and leave it at 63F and just be patient for now... and maybe do a little stirring to see if that helps.

I have 1/4" ss rod that I insert through my carboy cap and swirl the wort. You don't need to get all the way to the bottom if you get enough of a whirlpool going.

 

[Yooper]

I wouldn't do that, but of course, that's part of this discussion. I wouldn't even consider opening my fermenter if fermentation was going on. I wouldn't risk oxidation, and wouldn't stir. If the fermentation is going so slow as to cause concern, I MIGHT gently agitate the fermenter. But, there would not be enough off-gassing of co2 to protect it, so I would not open it or stir it. I especially would not whirlpool it.

 

[mr x]

I wouldn't even consider opening my fermenter if fermentation was going on.

That's why you don't open it. You insert a rod or racking cane through your carboy cap. Prevents oxygen from getting in. And at this stage, there's none in there to start with.

 

[uwmgdman]

One more question for you..........after you cooled your wort, how did you aerate your wort?

 

[perry]

Here's a thought about stirrin' up that yeast without oxygenating the beer...

Couldn't ya just hook up a wand or a tube to your CO2 tank (like post-boil oxygenation except without the O2) and give a little squirt? There's a layer of CO2resting over the beer anyway, and I don't see how stabbing a wand down there would introduce much air.

Never tried it my self, but I might someday. cheers, -p

 

[perry]

I've just re-read th others' posts... great discussion. And I guess I assumed you have CO2... -p

 

[LagerJam]

Yes, I have co2... and I like that idea.

I aerated it the old fashioned way... I shook the carboy. That reminds me though... I do have an oxygen tank for my oxy-acetylene that I could get filled up.

I just never had this problem before... never used oxygen, never had to stir.

Maybe this yeast is just slow (I've only used ale yeast before). I'm going to give it some time and see what happens.

 

[EinGutesBier]

Yes, I have co2... and I like that idea.

I aerated it the old fashioned way... I shook the carboy. That reminds me though... I do have an oxygen tank for my oxy-acetylene that I could get filled up.

I just never had this problem before... never used oxygen, never had to stir.

Maybe this yeast is just slow (I've only used ale yeast before). I'm going to give it some time and see what happens.

LagerJam, if it's not too late, let me recommend something to you. I think one of the better ways to aerate with minimal disruption is to do the following. Get one of the longest aeration pipes for an aquarium. They're usually green, foamlike and have a bent neck to attach tubing to. Then attach it to an aerater motor (cheap, if you don't have one already) and just put it right in and let it bubble some oxygen into the wort, after sterilization of course. Leave it in for a minute, and you should be set.

Also, judging from your title, you're doing a California Common a.k.a. steam beer right? I just bottled mine up and maybe I can offer a little input. Don't be afraid to get the fermenter a little warmer - I tried to keep mine around 63 or 64 and that worked pretty darn well. If necessary, give it a kickstart by warming it up to 68 and letting it cool down as fermentation goes into full swing. Finally, a couple things if you want to keep it authentic. I consulted a number of style guides and apparently, the beer was fermented in the mid range of the 60s for about 5-7 days. After that, it was krausened and kegged, shipped off to saloons and consumed two days later. What I did was give my beer about 6-7 days for primary and then used a flocculant ale yeast mixed with some of the lager yeast in the primary. Made myself a batch of krausen (took about a day or so) and dumped it in, mixed it up and bottled it.

I can't speak on the quality of the results, but judging from what I know, that's a fairly authentic way to do it. Hopefully some of that input will help you out!

 

[Danek]

...and of course there's an episode of the Jamil Show that talks about making a California Common:

http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/archive/Jamil07-31-06.mp3

Well worth a listen.

 

[theclarkster85]

I'm not a pro or anything I've only have to batches under my belt but if I read correctly It sounds like a pretty simple problem. I'm I correct you racked only after a week? What was your target FG? It sounds like you did not give the yeast enough time to do their job. I thinked you racked to the secondary way to soon there should be no fermentation going on in the secondary It is used for clearing.