Calculated Numbers Not Working on My E-Kettle

[Bigarcherynut]

Looking for some help with the calculated numbers and my brewing system. I have a homemade electric brew kettle and have been brewing with it for about 2 years now. It's taken some time to understand all there is with all grain BIAB brewing, water make up and the chemistry part. I'm feeling good except for some numbers and my equipment.

I have been looking at several programs but have been using 3 of them. I'm using Bru'N Water for my profiles seeing my well water is extremely hard and that's helped greatly. For brewing I'm using BeerSmith 2 and Priceless BIAB Calculator. When first using Priceless, I had several questions and he helped me out. I have learned to make notes, collect all the data and make sure I document every thing. Because I don't brew as often as I like I feel it's like starting over every time. When I put in the required grain bills they are almost dead on to each other. What I'm finding is that my strike water temps are always high by 3-4 degrees. My last 5 batches have come out with high mash temps and I'm rushing to either add cold water or bagged ice packs to get the temp down and at the same time testing my pH.

Could my kettle design cause the incorrect strike water temps? Instead of a round kettle it's an oval. A person on this site calculated the area on my tank and said it was equal to a round tank with a 19.75" diameter. I use this in Priceless. Could my longer oval tank spread the grains out more not requiring the listed strike temp?? Will the higher starting mash temps cause issues with my mash? Should I just lower my strike temp the 3-4 degrees and not worry with what the programs say?

I'm also having problems with consistent boil off rates. Can they vary each time? I'm not sure this is normal. This week I did a test run before my last batch and calculated the rate to be 2.35 gals./Hr. I was sure I finally had it right only to find I was lower this time, around 2.2 Gals./Hr. I ended up extending my boil for an additional 20 minutes.
Maybe this was a mistake to extend the boil.

If I find I need a longer boil should I just boil longer and adjust my hop times accordingly? I use boards to squeeze my bag and it does a great job of getting the wort out. Maybe I'm getting more wort out then what Priceless is calculating even though I entered 2.35 for boil-off rate. Here are the numbers for comparison.

Volumes from Priceless for 5.5 gal :
Amount needed = 9.31 gals.
Mash with grains = 11.02 gals.
Pre-boil = 8.18 gals.
Post Boil = 5.74 gals.

My Volumes:

Amount needed = 9.31 gals.
Mash with grains = 11.1 gals.
Pre-boil = 8.4 gals.
Post Boil = 6.2 gals. Note, OG not reached so extended boil for 20 minutes to 5.8 gals.

Maybe this is not uncommon. That's why I'm asking your help.

Thanks for your input.

Bill​

 

[Bigarcherynut]

Surprised no comment on my thread. Oh well.

Over the last couple of weeks I spent time reading, tuning my system and playing with programs. I've given up on Priceless brewing and have work just with BeerSmith2. I'm learning what the program is asking of me. After some test runs I'm finding out what works best with my system and did some PID tuning on my controller. My numbers seem to be spot on and I hit 83% efficiency on my last beer I brewed the other day. After a year away from brewing due to lack of time and not understanding my numbers, water profiles needed for brewing and my system, I'm feeling more confident on what I'm doing. 2 batches in fermenters and excited to see what I end up with.

 

[MaxStout]

In practice, I have found that Beersmith overshoots temp a few degrees. Maybe there's a means to tweak that in the software, so I won't blame Beersmith--it could be me using the defaults. For example, if it suggests 160F strike water, I only bring it to about 157-158 or so. Being more conservative on strike temp, I then hit mash temps within 1 degree--close enough. You might be getting a similar overshoot in temp.

For boiloff, you have a different surface area to consider, compared to cylindrical kettles. I don't know if any of the calculators allow you to enter the actual surface area, or if you are limited to just the diameter of a cylindrical kettle. If you can enter the actual surface area, that might help you dial in boiloff rates. But no matter what you do, or what kind of kettle you use, the best thing is to apply an empirical approach. Use your actual experiences and actual volumes to better predict boiloff rates. Any calculator is going to be a rough tool.

BTW, I like the bag-squeezer thing. Clever.

 

[tofuguy]

I have been running with an eBIAB setup for a few months now. I have switched to heating my strike water to my MASH temperature +2-3F (Recirculating during the rise of the strike water, for example, Mash temp = 152F, then heat strike water to 155F), mashing in, then let the temp rise back up to mash temperature. I am using a EZBoil controller. Since then, my temps have been under control. I used to try and account for all other variables, since I came from a cooler mash tun, but then I thought, I spent all of this time and money on a recirculating electric kettle, why do I care? I don't, so let the system correct at the beginning of the mash.

I originally had an Auber SYL-2352 PID. I was overshooting left and right (2-3F positive swings) with my eBIAB system. Once I switched to the EZBoil, problem solved. Wort the ~$45.

 

[Bigarcherynut]

I have been running with an eBIAB setup for a few months now. I have switched to heating my strike water to my MASH temperature +2-3F (Recirculating during the rise of the strike water, for example, Mash temp = 152F, then heat strike water to 155F), mashing in, then let the temp rise back up to mash temperature. I am using a EZBoil controller. Since then, my temps have been under control. I used to try and account for all other variables, since I came from a cooler mash tun, but then I thought, I spent all of this time and money on a recirculating electric kettle, why do I care? I don't, so let the system correct at the beginning of the mash.

I originally had an Auber SYL-2352 PID. I was overshooting left and right (2-3F positive swings) with my eBIAB system. Once I switched to the EZBoil, problem solved. Wort the ~$45.

tofuguy, I get where you are coming from. I currently run the SYL-2362 and now that I have spent hours playing with my system have found slight changes in what I do changes the reaction time of the controller/system. My boil-off rate was constantly changing. I now use my insulation blanket around my kettle and while heating up to a boil keep the lid on and the insulation pad on top of my kettle. As soon as I'm up to boiling I remove the lid. My basement in the winter is much cooler than in the summer so I'm hoping staying with the insulation on all the time will keep temps consistent and boil-off rates the same. I did a retune of the controller and the numbers changed a lot.

When I first began using my E-kettle and BIAB I was all new to all grain brewing. Almost over whelmed, I tried to make sure everything was perfect and thought is was disastrous not to hit the mash temp perfectly otherwise beer flavor would be changed. since then I handle minor deviations and take good notes so I can adjust and brew another day.

I decided to stop using Priceless brewing because I was a little confused, wasn't sure of some of the data and the strike temps were too high. Like by 7 degrees. BeerSmith2 has them about 3 degrees above mash temp and I hit it dead on and since spending time with the program decided to use this program along with Bru'N Water.

Recently I read about the EZ Boil controller and it sure looks like a straight forward controller for the E-kettle.

Thanks for your input.

 

[LittleRiver]

...I decided to stop using Priceless brewing because I was a little confused, wasn't sure of some of the data and the strike temps were too high. Like by 7 degrees...

I have just the opposite experience with the Priceless calculator -- I find the strike temps to be spot on. After I add my grains I hit the mash temp right on target.