Calcium Chloride Only

[Pehlman17]

Sorry, if this has been previously addressed elsewhere. Please direct me to the thread if so...

Has anyone here had much experience with the practice of adding CaCl2 as the only salt addition to a base of RO or distilled water? (In mash. Presumably for malty beers). I've seen this mentioned twice now from both Matt Brynildson (Firestone Walker) and Gordon Strong. They both seem to lean on CaCl2 alone when it comes to salt additions to their mash on malt-forward beers. FWIW, Brynildson also does this for Pivo Pils (dry-hopped lager) from what I understand. It seems that Gordon Strong prefers adding just enough to get his overall calcium to 50ppm, whereas Brynildson supposedly shoots for 100ppm calcium. I've obviously never tried any of Gordon Strong's beers, but I have and (and enjoyed) Matt's beers at FW on many occasions.

Not to divert too much from the main questions but I find it interesting that Gordon and Brynildson also both share the same preference on hoppy beers, for splitting salt additions into equal parts CaCl2 and CaSO4. Again it seems shooting for 50ppm and 100ppm overall calcium respectively.

Is anybody else here either a fan of this method, having sulfates essentially at zero, or at least tried it out before? Any styles besides Bo Pils that it has worked well on?

Thanks in advance!

 

[marc1]

Right here!

What you are describing is recommended for many styles.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/a-brewing-water-chemistry-primer.198460/

 

[Pehlman17]

Thanks!

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Right here!

What you are describing is recommended for many styles.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/a-brewing-water-chemistry-primer.198460/

And the "Cliff Notes" are here:

https://www.bertusbrewery.com/2012/02/water-chemistry-how-to-build-your-water.html

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Has anyone here had much experience with the practice of adding CaCl2 as the only salt addition to a base of RO or distilled water? (In mash. Presumably for malty beers). I've seen this mentioned twice now from both Matt Brynildson (Firestone Walker) and Gordon Strong. They both seem to lean on CaCl2 alone when it comes to salt additions to their mash on malt-forward beers. FWIW, Brynildson also does this for Pivo Pils (dry-hopped lager) from what I understand. It seems that Gordon Strong prefers adding just enough to get his overall calcium to 50ppm, whereas Brynildson supposedly shoots for 100ppm calcium. I've obviously never tried any of Gordon Strong's beers, but I have and (and enjoyed) Matt's beers at FW on many occasions

If you look at the recipes in Modern Homebrew Recipes (2015), there are recipes (and styles) where CaCl and/or CaS04 is added in the boil kettle. The mash process described in the book focuses on mashing just those grains that need to be mashed (holding out the darker crystal & roasted until the end of the mash) so that the mash process is essentially the same for every recipe.

For my mashing process, I target 50 ppm Ca (either CaCl or CaS04 depending on beer style), and use acidualted malt to adjust pH. I'll also add Na, Cl, and S04 to the boil kettle.

There are a couple of brewers (in other forums) who are using the process in Modern Homebrew Techniques and Brewing Better Beer (2011). One has extended the process to include the easy oxygen mitigation techniques/ingredients (including measurements for each ingredient).

 

[Pehlman17]

I have both of those books but I hadn't yet had the chance to try out his specific mashing method as far as brewing salts were concerned. I do however really like the idea of having a couple of generalized go-to's when it comes to treating brewing water. I've never been one for chasing water profiles for every different style. I like to think that playing with fewer variables overall is the best way to learn and hone in on process.

 

[Beer666]

I only put chloride in a lot of my lagers. 2 or 3g for a 25l batch.

 

[Protos]

This winter, I started meddling with my water, and I brewed each of this season's 25 Lagers with a different water profile, exactly to explore the impact various elements, their combinations or concentrations have on beer. Now, when the Lagers are getting ready, I taste each of them noting the differences.

I'd say it's nothing like what I had expected from reading books and interwebs. Sulphate-only addidions didn't make my beers hoppier. Chloride-only additions didn't make by beers softer or whatever they promised in their texts. Saying that, adding salts definitely made my beers different from what I brewed before with my untreated water. Sometimes to the better, sometimes to the worse.

It's rather like table salt in culinary. Up to a certain level it doesn't make your dishes SALTY. It makes them DIFFERENT. Again, sometimes to the better, sometimes to the worse.

Now I believe that the collective wisdom and expert suggestions on using salts have very little relation to my personal taste. Now I need to try all possible combinations in person, to choose my own favourites. I'm not happy about that as it puts before me a humonguous, lifetime task.

TL/DR: Nobody can tell. Just try the only-CaCl addition yourself. You may like it. Or may not.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Now I need to try all possible combinations in person, to choose my own favourites. I'm not happy about that as it puts before me a humonguous, lifetime task.

There are techniques, not often discussed, where people add measured amounts of salts to finished beer to "dial-in" the flavoring salt(s) additions. May not be appropriate to discuss this in Brew Science - so may be ask the question over in recipes/ingredients.

 

[Bramling Cross]

I went through a two-year phase where I thought calcium chloride was the answer to everything. Eventually, I started adding gypsum back into my profile and I was surprised at how much my beers started to "pop."

Eventually, I learned that plain old non-iodized table salt was what I was looking for. With my DC tap water, 1g of table salt in the boil works nicely for dry beers, 2g does the trick for beers that I want to be rich and silky. Oddly, I've never contemplated going to 3g. 2g gets the job done with no need for further experimentation.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

@Bramling Cross : good observations.

For everyone else new to the topic, in the OP it was stated:

I've seen this mentioned twice now from both Matt Brynildson (Firestone Walker) and Gordon Strong. They both seem to lean on CaCl2 alone when it comes to salt additions to their mash on malt-forward beers.

And in Modern Homebrew Recipes, one will find hop forward recipes that use CaS04.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

For those who haven't read either Brewing Better Beer or Modern Homebrew Recipes:

• Brewing Better Beer was written from the perspective: "Here are ideas on how you [book reader] can brew" .
• Modern Homebrew Recipes was written from the perspective: "Here is how I [book author] brew". In this book, the author states why his recipes don't include additional NaCl.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I do however really like the idea of having a couple of generalized go-to's when it comes to treating brewing water.

If one assumes that the source water is RO (or very low mineral tap water), it would be practical to extend recipe templates (for example those in Simple Homebrewing) to include water adjustments.

There would likely be a set of templates for each of the different approaches to those adjustments.

One could also include simple reduced oxygen techniques and ingredient amounts - as there are a couple of home brewers who are currently sharing specific recipes with that information "built-in".

A next step may be to start discussing complete recipes in appropriate areas of this forum.

 

[mabrungard]

Everything is a balance. Brewing with only chloride salts is less likely to produce that balance. Sulfate helps dry a beer's finish and that's rarely a bad thing. But you don't want to dry the finish too much, or the drinker won't get the maximum effect from the malt compounds. I agree that a brewer should limit sulfate and include enough chloride when brewing malty beers, but don't overdo it. Chloride doesn't make a beer malty, it only enables more perception of any malt in the beer.

PS: It's a total myth that sulfate and noble hops don't work well with each other. There are tons of beers that have modest sulfate content and use noble hops.

 

[Pehlman17]

Everything is a balance. Brewing with only chloride salts is less likely to produce that balance. Sulfate helps dry a beer's finish and that's rarely a bad thing. But you don't want to dry the finish too much, or the drinker won't get the maximum effect from the malt compounds. I agree that a brewer should limit sulfate and include enough chloride when brewing malty beers, but don't overdo it. Chloride doesn't make a beer malty, it only enables more perception of any malt in the beer.

PS: It's a total myth that sulfate and noble hops don't work well with each other. There are tons of beers that have modest sulfate content and use noble hops.

My initial thoughts were similar as far as keeping some amount of sulfate. Not that I’m a huge proponent of chasing the Sulfate-to-Chloride ratio, but based on the idea of a “ratio“ itself, I would assume that means the goal would be to have at least a little bit of both present in order to find a balance.