BYO Sierra Nevada Pale Ale Clone Recipe

[nianticcardplayer]

Good Day everyone;

This last weekend I did my second all grain brew and I ran into some, and I am not sure if they are big, but issues. I was going off the all grain recipe in the December BYO magazine for the SNPA clone.

In the directions it called for 3.5 gallons of water for the mash, with grain bill in the recipe going off the 1.5 quart per pound I came up with about 4.1 gallons for mash. Sparging to get a pre-boil volume of 6.5 gallons...so 3 gallons there...

I started with the 3.5 gallons at 168-170 into the cooler and then added grain checked temp 20 minutes later and stirred around, after initial stirring when adding grain and the temp was holding about 152-154 on the thermometer. I did put another half gallon of water into pot and warmed it to 170 if it needed to be added later in the mash. I checked temp at 45 minutes and it was between 150-152 on the thermometer. I added the 170 water for the last fifteen minutes while waiting for my sparge water to finish heating.

At the one hour mark I stirred final time and began to vourlaugh to get the wort as clear as I could took about 7 pitchers to accomplish and then into the boil pot it went. I then added the three gallons of sparge water and let it sit for 20 minutes, again vourlaugh and then into the brew pot I was above the 6 gallon mark I had for my 8 gallon boil pot so I began the 90 minute boil.

Following the directions I expected to have around five gallons to go into the fermenter. After filtering out the hop sludge and break material using my old partial mash bag I only had four gallons of wort...? I took a gravity reading and my hydrometer was showing 1.068-1.070 range....I was a little confounded at having so much boil off and such a high reading, magazine said should be about 1.051......

I did have one more gallon of cold spring water there so I added that to top off to five gallons and took another reading it was closer to where it should be after adding the water but it was still quite high in comparison. I added the American Ale (1056) wyeast at about 68-70 degrees and within a couple of hours had activity and it's been bubbling away since Saturday.

My questions are did I royally screw something up?

Also how did I end up losing so much through the boil.

I use a propane burner (turkey fryer) my pot is an 8 gallon stainless steel with spigot and thermometer....I also used a false bottom in the pot as well...if any of that makes a difference.

 

[iowabrew]

Not sure about the volume loss, but topping up with water will be just fine.

I made a rye maibock last year and then again this year. MY eff has gone up since then and i didn't account for this when i made it the 2nd time around. My OG was higher than the previous batch and instead of letting it ride i topped up with tap water to get my intened OG. Beer came out spot on to the original with no ill effects.

 

[eastoak]

as you continue brewing on your system you'll dial in the water volume you'll need to get 5 gallons into the fermentor by taking into account your boil off and other system losses. the magazine article writer does not know the boil off rate of your system, only you do, or you do now. i need 8 or 9 gallons total to get 5 gallons into the fermentor after a 60 or 90 minute boil. the air is very dry here and i brew in keggles so i boil off water pretty quick.

 

[BrewinBromanite]

+1 to Eastoak's and Iowabrew's comments. I'm just recently getting into AG as well, and had never put too much thought into volumes before since I was just topping it off to whatever it need to be when doing PM or extract.

I use a bayou classic double propane burner, and have two 10.5 gal aluminum pots (also bayou classic). From your pics, the diameter looks pretty close to mine. A couple weeks ago I did a test boil off to see my evaporation rate. One pot with 7 gal, the other with 8, and let it go for 60 min. They (surprisingly to me) both lost 2 gal after cooling almost on the dot. Good to know your system! I probably would've assumed only 1-1.5 max evaporation loss if I hadn't tested my system.

Sounds like you didn't screw up the brew, though. Should be fine. Your gravity was high b/c it was more concentrated than you planned for, but topping it off was just fine, and now you know your boil off rate!

 

[nianticcardplayer]

Thanks for the information I wasn't sure if I had messed it up by topping it off that much. I definately was not looking for an "imperial" pale ale LOL will let everyone know how it turns out

 

[daksin]

One thing that jumps out at me is your pitching temperature and yeast count. It's always better to pitch at a temperature below where you want to ferment (beer temp, not ambient temp). For me, I'd want to ferment WLP001/WY1056 at around 66-68F, so I'd want to pitch at 60-65F. Another thing is your cell count- did you make a starter or pitch the correct number of packages of yeast to have enough cells to properly ferment your wort? Along with temperature control, these are the best things you can do for your beer.

Re: boiloff rate, a lot of those 8gal pots are really wide, I boil off a lot more in my 8gal pot than I do in my very narrow 7.5 gal pot. The surface area has a big effect on boiloff, but as others have said, it's just something you learn to account for and will dial in as you get comfortable on your system. Otherwise, I'm sure this is going to make a very tasty beer and you should be fine.

 

[isleofman]

Your hop utilization will be lower because of the higher OG during the boil. Next time, check your gravity before your boil and adjust then.

 

[wailingguitar]

I formulate my recipes for a 5.5 gallon, post boil wort. I boil for 60 minutes on a bayou classic and get 1.5 gallon boil off, so I have to start at 7 gallons. Getting the boil going in a 33qt kettle can be a little tricky at first! My SOP has been to sparge to 6.5 gallons and keep a pitcher of cool, filtered water handy to slowly knock down the foam as the boil starts, that way I end up with 7 gallons in the kettle when the boil stabilizes and my 60 minutes hops are in. If OP started boil at 6 gallons and boiled for 90 minutes, 4 gallons to the ferm is about what I would expect.

 

[ScottG58]

Looks like you have the megapot type pot similar to mine. I learned that boil off can be quite severe. You took a gravity reading before the boil. I was having a similar issue. What helped me was getting the pre boil gravity and calibrating the pot. I took a dowel and marked it at half gallon increments. When you do the ninety minute boil, you can check your wort volume with ten minutes left. If its short, you can top off until you reach planned post boil volume and have the chance to boil the top off in the wort for ten minutes.

That said, I have done what you described and topped off post boil and been happy with the beer. I predict you will like the results of your work too. Mmmmmm, Sierra Nevada Pale Ale--wish I had one right now.

 

[nianticcardplayer]

I have been maintaining a steady 66-68 on the fermentation temps using the cold basement and some ice packs, working very well I know I may end up doing some kind pre-chiller for cooling the wort down....with my frist two all grains using a wort chiller I have had a heck of a time getting temps below 70.....when I partial mashed I had no issues picthing at the 65 degree mark and with my lagers I have done the partial mashes on even picthing at 48 wasn't an issue.

I am happy with the first two I have done all grain but I am still learning for sure.

Ron

 

[Nicegirl]

I typically get about 1.25 gallons of boil off in a 7 gallon batch when boiled for 60 minutes and end up loosing about another half gallon to trub in the kettle. With some further experience with your equipment you will be able to dial in the exact amount of sweet wort you'll need in the kettle in order to get a full five gallons into the fermenter after your boil.
As far as your O.G., it appears that you did a pretty efficient mash. Did you check your efficiency level?

 

[nianticcardplayer]

I have no idea how to check efficiency......I have usually jkust gone off the numbers that have been with the recipes....I am usually within a point.

 

[jmf143]

I have no idea how to check efficiency......I have usually jkust gone off the numbers that have been with the recipes....I am usually within a point.

The last 2 digits of the recipe OG x the recipe batch size will equal the last 2 digits of your pre-boil gravity x your pre-boil volume IF your extract efficiency is the same as the extract efficiency assumed by the recipe creator.

For example, BYO assumes 65% extract efficiency. 5 gallons @ 1.052 =
5 x 52 = 260.

If your pre-boil volume is 7 gallons, your pre-boil gravity should be 260/7 = 37 or 1.037. If your measured gravity is higher than that, your extract efficiency was higher than 65%. If your gravity is lower than 1.037 your extract efficiency was lower than 65%. Some people keep DME on hand in case their pre-boil gravity is too low.

 

[Nicegirl]

The last 2 digits of the recipe OG x the recipe batch size will equal the last 2 digits of your pre-boil gravity x your pre-boil volume IF your extract efficiency is the same as the extract efficiency assumed by the recipe creator.

For example, BYO assumes 65% extract efficiency. 5 gallons @ 1.052 =
5 x 52 = 260.

If your pre-boil volume is 7 gallons, your pre-boil gravity should be 260/7 = 37 or 1.037. If your measured gravity is higher than that, your extract efficiency was higher than 65%. If your gravity is lower than 1.037 your extract efficiency was lower than 65%. Some people keep DME on hand in case their pre-boil gravity is too low.

To expound a bit on the response given by jmf143 to measure your efficiency each grain or brewing adjunct has a potential yield valve. For example, 2-Row has a typical yield of 1.037. You would use the last two numbers of each of these yield values, in this case 37, multiplied by the number of pounds in the recipe, lets use 9 pounds as an example. 9 x 37 = 333.
Do this for each grain or adjunct in the recipe and total up the numbers. Divide the total of these numbers by the total gallons of wort collected. Say you collected a total of 7 gallons, 333 / 7 = 47.57 or rounded off to 48.
Take a specific gravity reading of the wort you collected and temperature compensate it for your hydrometer. Use the last two numbers of the reading. For example, if your S.G. is 1.041, use 41. Divide 41 by 48 and you get 0.85 or 85% efficiency on your mash.
Hope this helps.

 

[nianticcardplayer]

Thanks very much for the help on this....I did have one more question though one of the posters advised that he has hadded water during the boil if things are going to the point of too much of a boil off.....as in my case I was not exactly to 6.5 gallons pre boil volume I was close but not exact. How does adding the water as the boil happens effect the gravity after the boil does it "thin" it out to much ?

 

[afr0byte]

Thanks very much for the help on this....I did have one more question though one of the posters advised that he has hadded water during the boil if things are going to the point of too much of a boil off.....as in my case I was not exactly to 6.5 gallons pre boil volume I was close but not exact. How does adding the water as the boil happens effect the gravity after the boil does it "thin" it out to much ?

You can do a simple equation to figure out how much adding an amount of water will affect your gravity (y)... current_gravity*current_volume = y * new_volume

 

[nianticcardplayer]

Ok it's in the bottle and should be ready for the first one to open this upcoming weekend. I ended up a bottle and half short of a full five gallons......My numbers are as follows

O.G. 1.052-1.053 on the hydrometer
F.G. 1-012....so it was close.... will post a pic of the first pour....

 

[mabrungard]

Based on the picture, one problem is the vigor of the boil. That is a rather intense boil and you could easily (and should) reduce the heating a bit to reduce the vigor. In my brewing, I find that an appropriate boil vigor is disturbing the wort surface fairly well, but there isn't any geysering and excessive foaming. I can typically see particulates being circulated by the boil vigor at this rate.

The picture shows that there is a large plume of bubbly wort erupting from the wort. Remember, the temperature of the wort is not changed by the vigor of the boil. It will remain at the boiling point regardless of the vigor. The hop utilization will also remain the same since it is entirely dependent upon the heat energy in the wort and that remains constant. What does change is that a more vigorous boil emits more steam, and that leads to a greater water loss. For a typical 5 gallon beer, you only want about a 1 gal/hr volume loss. The only time you would want to boil more vigorously is when you purposely want to concentrate the wort sugars and provide more caramelization of the wort. In the typical light-colored beer, excessive caramelization is not desirable.

 

[eastoak]

Based on the picture, one problem is the vigor of the boil. That is a rather intense boil and you could easily (and should) reduce the heating a bit to reduce the vigor. In my brewing, I find that an appropriate boil vigor is disturbing the wort surface fairly well, but there isn't any geysering and excessive foaming. I can typically see particulates being circulated by the boil vigor at this rate.

The picture shows that there is a large plume of bubbly wort erupting from the wort. Remember, the temperature of the wort is not changed by the vigor of the boil. It will remain at the boiling point regardless of the vigor. The hop utilization will also remain the same since it is entirely dependent upon the heat energy in the wort and that remains constant. What does change is that a more vigorous boil emits more steam, and that leads to a greater water loss. For a typical 5 gallon beer, you only want about a 1 gal/hr volume loss. The only time you would want to boil more vigorously is when you purposely want to concentrate the wort sugars and provide more caramelization of the wort. In the typical light-colored beer, excessive caramelization is not desirable.

there is no caramelization going on in a boil since it never reaches the 245 degrees needed for that but you do get maillard reactions between the proteins and the simple sugars. a vigorous boil is important for various reasons and i'm not sure why a 1 gallon/hr cap is desirable but it's totally dependent on kettle geometry and ambient conditions. out here in oakland's dry air i boil off 1.5 gallons in a 60 min, 5 gallon boil. if i boil for 90 min the boil off goes up, obviously. most breweries i've been to have huge kettles that boil very hard.

 

[mabrungard]

there is no caramelization going on in a boil since it never reaches the 245 degrees needed for that but you do get maillard reactions between the proteins and the simple sugars. a vigorous boil is important for various reasons and i'm not sure why a 1 gallon/hr cap is desirable but it's totally dependent on kettle geometry and ambient conditions. out here in oakland's dry air i boil off 1.5 gallons in a 60 min, 5 gallon boil. if i boil for 90 min the boil off goes up, obviously. most breweries i've been to have huge kettles that boil very hard.

Good points excepting that when you boil hard enough, you can create enough of a steam pocket(s) at the bottom of the kettle that you can have localized temperatures that far exceed 212F or whatever your local boiling temp is. Caramelization is possible. It's just happening in tiny locations, intermittently across the bottom of the kettle. If you boil hard enough and long enough, you can get more caramelization than if you boil more modestly.

Yes a vigorous boil is important for completing a number of chemical and physical reactions, but the key of what I'm saying is that it does not take a 'leaping out of the pot' boil to accomplish that. A gentle boil that you can see is moving the wort and all the solids in it, is sufficient.

 

[nianticcardplayer]

I didn't get a pic of the first pour, my homebrewing neighbor gave it a taste and said it's darn close...The Mrs. who is not a beer drinker by nature advised that it smelled good and had the "bitterness" that she has tasted in the commercial version.

What I noticed, it is close, however I have a chill haze/cloudiness in the first couple of bottles...I don't think I chilled them long enough...Other than that for my second all grain brew it did turn out....

I did use whirlfloc at the end of the boil and transferred to secondary as well.

 

[Freedomfan]

I didn't get a pic of the first pour, my homebrewing neighbor gave it a taste and said it's darn close...The Mrs. who is not a beer drinker by nature advised that it smelled good and had the "bitterness" that she has tasted in the commercial version.

What I noticed, it is close, however I have a chill haze/cloudiness in the first couple of bottles...I don't think I chilled them long enough...Other than that for my second all grain brew it did turn out....

I did use whirlfloc at the end of the boil and transferred to secondary as well.

I love SNPA and have brewed many versions of it. The closest one I've ever found though is here:

http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtopic.php?t=15532

Pretty much spot on. I brew it all the time and have yet to find a closer clone.